Sets the stage for Election Season. The Dems are avoiding the war topic, and are going to go to the economy. McCain is going to go to tax relief and bringing down energy prices.
Game on.
Posted by Muck at June 20, 2008 01:05 PMYes, it promises to be a weekend of such calm contemplation and blissful contentment inevitably resulting from such great wise leadership, indeed.
I'm going to be in denial with the Oakland A's this afternoon. For once I don't care, anything not to have to accept the reality of it.
Posted by paradox at June 20, 2008 01:07 PMTurkana:
Now you understand the meaning of CHANGE in Washington. It is regardless of party. Throw the bums out. YES WE CAN.
Posted by suresh at June 20, 2008 01:43 PMsuresh,
and what did obama do to stop the fisa bill or the war funding bill? he's the leader of the party. crickets.
Posted by Turkana at June 20, 2008 01:44 PMThese votes are huge disappointments.
and what did obama do to stop the fisa bill or the war funding bill? he's the leader of the party. crickets.
Just wondering, could Turkana please tell us what Bill Clinton did to either promote or defeat legislation in the US Congress after becoming the Democratic presidential nominee in 1992? With a Democratic majority in Congress? I'm looking for a point of comparison.
Posted by joel dan walls at June 20, 2008 01:55 PMTurkana;
Since our troops are in Iraq and war in Afghanistan must go on, we have to provide funding whether we are oppopsed to Iraq war or not. The correct thing to do is to get our troops out of Iraq which Obama will do. McCain would not.
As for FISA, the real cuprit for wiretapping is the Bush administration that forced the companies to perform these acts. By punishing these companies with law suits is not the right approach. I do not think that these compines are evil doers and wanted to do unconstitutional wire tapiing on their own. The evil doers are in the Whitehouse. We need to have a President who will follow the constitution. Obama will do that. You can count on that. But not on McCain.
Posted by suresh at June 20, 2008 02:00 PMObama just issued a long statement saying -- after hemming and hawing -- that he backs the FISA bill.
(very long string of expletives deleted)
And Clinton supporters, no your candidate would have caved too (and has).
Sad. Expected, but still sad.
I'll still support the guy, but now it's back to lesser-of-two-evils kind of thing.
Posted by Anonny at June 20, 2008 02:00 PMjoel,
i know this is hard for you to comprehend, but bill clinton is not running for president. nor is hillary. obama is. he's the leader of the party. he can lead or not. he can be an agent of change or not.
Posted by Turkana at June 20, 2008 02:02 PMWoolsey represents me, and I just called her local office to congratulate her for being on the side of the people.
Paradox, I'm a big A's fan myself, get out to a half dozen games a year. The A's do more with less, and the Giants do less with more, every year.
Let's GO A's!
Posted by Repack Rider at June 20, 2008 02:11 PManonny,
i'd like to think you're wrong- but i don't...
Posted by Turkana at June 20, 2008 02:11 PMsuresh,
actually, they could have tied funding to timetables- they didn't. it's a blank check. and you grossly underestimate the damage done by this congressional cave on fisa. it's not only about having a president who will abide by the law (which obama will do), it's also about stopping the domestic spying now, and holding accountable those who broke the law- this fisa bill lets them get away with it.
Posted by Turkana at June 20, 2008 02:14 PMNo Law & Order party, just Order. Those who give the Order.
Posted by Glenn I at June 20, 2008 02:15 PMrepack,
i used to live in woolsey's district- i still give her campaign donations. she's wonderful!
and i'm also on board with paradox- a's aren't my favorite team, but i love them, and love the way they're run!
Posted by Turkana at June 20, 2008 02:22 PMTurkana has never missed a chance to slam Obama and so it goes. Obama said he'd oppose amnesty when it gets to the Senate (where he works) so lets let him take his shot. Clinton is apparently on vacation somewhere and can't be bothered to issue a statement one way or the other on FISA. But since she pledged to do everything in her power to support the Obama candidacy, I'll assume she'll be voicing her support of his position shortly.
Posted by T2 at June 20, 2008 02:47 PMThere were millions of ways to allow the lawsuits to go forward so we could find out the truth while not holding the Telecoms liable---the bill could have simply provided that the US Treasury would pay any judgment arising out of the executive's "requests" for the telecoms to break the law---that would have been a real compromise, not a cave-in.
As I explain more fully in Steve's post below, this demostrates that "politics" is a waste of time---we cannot reform ourselves if there is no reform party. And no Dem is even complaining about the leadership and its "decisions"!
So I'm done, I think. If they can't hold firm on this against Mr 30% and his monster Cheney, then stopping global warming is hopeless.
I'm sure the Dem leadership couldn't care less how many dirty fucking hippies they alienate. That's a pity, but that's the situation.
Posted by euzoius at June 20, 2008 03:25 PMTurkana, actually, I am firmly reality based.
I am hugely disappointed in this FISA nonsense. And I do wish Obama had made a clear statement of opposition. He didn't. I am not at all happy about this.
You wrote:
and what did obama do to stop the fisa bill or the war funding bill? he's the leader of the party. crickets....which seems like an accurate statement, my ignorance of the "crickets" terminology notwithstanding. Your implication is that Obama as the presidential nominee had some special responsibility to try to influence pending legislation before Congress. OK, let's assume that he does. So I am simply asking this: does this special responsibility extend to EVERY presidential nominee? Or only to Barack Obama? If in fact this special responsibility does extend to EVERY presidential nominee, did one such nominee--Bill Clinton--take steps to influence pending before Congress in the spring and summer of 1992? If I recall correctly, at that time we had a GOP president and a Democratic Congress, as we do now.
Or, if you don't wish to reflect upon Bill Clinton, consider any other presidential nominee in any other election year.
Your premise is that Barack Obama, as the de facto presidential nominee, had some special responsibility today and shirked it. That's fine, you are allowed to make that claim. I am simply asking whether there have been any other presidential nominees whom you would similarly criticize.
Again, I am not at all happy about what happened today--either what the fools in Congress did, or what Obama did (or didn't do).
Posted by joel dan walls at June 20, 2008 04:35 PMrational as always, t2. part of clinton's job, right now, is to get out of the way. and had she won, aqnd failed to speak out on this, i'd be criticizing her, too. sorry to interfere with your hero worship, but obama, as leader of the party, could have shown some leadership.
Posted by Turkana at June 20, 2008 04:51 PMI can't believe you people who whine about Hillary Clinton. You rushed her ass out the door and told her to STFU. You got your wish and she's on vaca. Live with it.
Posted by Sharon at June 20, 2008 05:40 PMThere was a comment in there that Obama wants to bring the troops home...ok..
but, the thing is that not only the troops but all the private entities too.
Just because the troops are comming home (which they wont all be home)that doesnt mean that the Iraq mess is over with. Obama will continue the typical American foreing policy...just a little bit nicer, softer but always as destructful.
"...but always as destructful."
Have you always hated the US? (You will find many fellow travellers on this blog.)
Posted by Bagley at June 20, 2008 06:43 PMOk, here we go again....don’t criticize the US or else you’re labeled unpatriotic, America hater, etc.
Please argue amongst yourself...
Brava, Sharon!
Hillary’s where everyone was demanding she go a couple weeks ago - out of the picture. She's not running against him anymore, and vice versa. This is Obama's first test of leadership on his own, she's not going to try to steal the limelight now, I would hope.
Besides, if Hillary speaks in support of the compromise, backing up Obama, I guarantee all the blogger angst will transfer to her. Hell, it’s already happening with the “Where is Hillary’s statement on the compromise“ stuff. The primary’s over. "What’s McCain’s statement," should be the question at this point.
On the other hand, Hillary publicly goes against Obama, anger will transfer to her for not backing him up after she promised she would, the backstabber; she’d be accused of grandstanding and attention would again be diverted to her. She can't win either way, so my advice would be to just stay out of it. This is Obama's party now, he's on his own. Actually, Digby seems to think this couldn’t have happened without Obama’s permission and/or direction – as Digby says, “...it's not really a capitulation. It's a strategy. “ A pretty risky one, too, pissing off the netroots where all your money’s supposed to be coming from. That is, it would be risky, if we can put the damn primary behind us and start concentrating on finding a way to show our collective disapproval of our nominee’s position on our goddamn Constitutional rights, eh?
The real problem is that the Democratic leadership is .... you know, I'm trying to think of something that doesn't give aid and comfort to our enemies, republicans, but it's rather difficult. I'll just say this: the reason to vote for the Democrats in November is that the more Democrats there are running the government, the fewer republicans there will be destroying it.
And that picture will give us the opportunity to make changes that won't matter who the politicians are.
The day when we can put Boehner and Pelosi and Hoyer and Graham and McCain and McConnell and all the rest on the dungheap and get real Americans running things is coming, shit like FISA capitulation and $162 billion for an illegal war of occupation just makes the day that much closer, and these fools just don't have any idea.
Posted by Duckman GR at June 20, 2008 08:19 PMJoel, the difference between Bill Clinton and Obama is Obama's in a position to do something in the senate. Clinton was a governor in Arkansas. Governors can't wander around the senate floor to twist arms.
Hoyer's replacement...Rahm Emanuel, he just voted for the things you despise. Or does he replace Reid after taking Obama's seat? Nice try Duckman, your ranks are absent those Democrats you're looking for right now.
Parallax, the troops aren't coming home that fast. Obama will follow Petraeus's lead after he becomes CentCom commander. He will not want to upset the progress the general has achieved.
And Euz, how many times are you going to be done. This scene is beginning to look like Curly of the Three Stooges performing a dying scene. Taking forever.
Posted by peter at June 20, 2008 09:29 PMAnd another thing...what happened to Obama's ATM seems to be falling short. In his "document dump" of Friday, his campaign reported only 22 million for May...his lowest total since his February 50 million. Has he peaked already? Y'all better dig deep...time to pony up some new cash for his ATM so he can waste it like he's been doing in states like Ohio, Texas, Pennsylvania, Indiana, boy, he spends like a drunken sailor. McCain took in 21 million in May. Cash on hand is now 31.5 for McCain and 43 million for Obama. Of course that was before Obama's media buy reported today.
Did anybody see his new "presidential" seal, with the Latin Vero Possumus,” roughly translated “Yes we can?”
Posted by peter at June 20, 2008 09:55 PMWith this kind of Congress, who needs political enemies in the White House?
I think euzoius reminds us in a timely way that this Telecom capitulation has nothing to do with lawsuits and awards, and eveything to do with a blackout of information. Democratic leaders and followsheep in the House are helping the most criminal administration in US history to cover its ass.
Posted by Copeland at June 20, 2008 11:29 PMCopeland, and they have been doing it from the beginning.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 21, 2008 05:15 AM"And Euz, how many times are you going to be done. This scene is beginning to look like Curly of the Three Stooges performing a dying scene. Taking forever."
Actually Peter, I don't remember Euzoius ever saying he/she was done before. I've said it several times, but not Euzoius.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 21, 2008 05:35 AMWith a democratic party like this who needs republicans. Luv the one party rule....the "owners" and then the "serfs".
And then there's the dnc handpicked annointed one aka The Precious....how's that hope and change thingy working out again for the teleco's and Bushie again?
My hope is that the surveillance will be used to keep tabs on Bush after Obama takes office. Be careful of what you ask, because you may get it. But the Bush ranch in Peru will be international anyway. Political asylum anyone?
Posted by Captain Dan at June 21, 2008 06:35 AMPelosi is only as powerful as her caucus. They are all very focused on reelection.
Don't under value the veteran benefits and 13 month unemployment extension. Those are key election issues and her caucus members are very focused on the election. (They are also will help both people in need and the economy quickly.)
The war will be over early next year, regardless. And if we win heavily an obstructionist Senate minority will be hesitant to use the fillibuster so frequently.
I am not as bothered by the ware vote as the rest of you. FISA is a big dissapointment, but winning is everything now. Focus people!
Posted by allansfca at June 21, 2008 07:00 AMWhen Republicans were in the majority, with smaller majorities, we were able to, according to many here, ram through most anything. Aren't Democrats unified? Or is her caucus only some 180 strong, with the remainder being blue dogs under the Rep Tauscher's control. Y'all are electing more blue dogs now and Ellen Tauscher is getting stronger. The country is growing more conservative even within the Democratic Party.
Drill here(buy American), Drill now, Pay less!
Posted by peter at June 21, 2008 08:23 AMAnd by the way...one has to wonder if Barry Obama goes to Iraq and sees progress whether he'll come home a 'changed' man and keep the progress going. Then you will have voted for a Democrat to continue the Bush/Pelosi war unabated. How convenient it is to fund the war for a year without dates certain! Not even to argue for them!
Why would Democrats do that Copeland? Maybe because they're not the "most criminal administration in US history."
either that or they're complicit?
Capt. Dan, Bush is retiring to Dallas and Crawford not Peru. Keep up the great work.
Posted by peter at June 21, 2008 08:39 AM
Shirin, If you're out there, maybe you can translate these?
From today's newspapers...now don't get mad.
Posted by peter at June 21, 2008 09:21 AMCaptain Dan brings up a good point. Now Democrats can use FISA to spy on those in the Bush Administration, Bush, Cheney and dear little Condi the Liar. So true. Be careful what you wish for, or legislate.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 21, 2008 11:46 AMI think we should tap the phone at Crawford in the name of National Security.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 21, 2008 12:25 PMAh Judith...you forget...that line can't be tapped. Back doors and all...we fixed it that way...
;-) cheers
Posted by peter at June 21, 2008 12:41 PMI love it Turkana! Some people still blaming the Clintons because they aint got the hoochies to take ownsership of their own shit. I continue to be unimpressed.
Nice reading YOU, though. See ya later.
Winning IS everything now, or we get Oldie McSenile John McCain.
We know it was grand theft America 11/2/04.
It's the expansion of the military-industrial complex and perpetual war, courtesy of Cheney/Bush and their cronies and the total lack of governance that keeps me awake and alive.
Don't lose hope. The House's disappointing vote, and Obama's apparent congruence must relate to not wanting to be accused of the dreaded soft on terror label that cost John Kerry.
has pants pissing peter ever met a boot he didn't want to lick?
Posted by Gay Veteran at June 24, 2008 11:30 AM