You really DO have the best roses!
Posted by Sharon at June 22, 2008 08:34 AMWhere's the seal?
Posted by jmac at June 22, 2008 08:38 AMParadox,
Thank you for letting us be a part of your process. I always enjoy watching, and sharing with you, the anger and frustration and then moving back towards acceptance.
The continual ability of you to take responsibility for your own emotions and behavior,
"Finally acknowledging I was being ridiculous and un-worthy even of drama queens in the matter".
When you do this, you offer all of us permission to stop and slow down and say to ourselves, 'hey, what good does it do me to sit here and stew?'
I appreciate this, very much.
You lack the faux intellectual superiority of so many and I appreciate your ability to be raw and true and to always, always put yourself out there.
There are times, I will admit, when you sound so peaceful and so content, that I think to myself, 'damn, I wish I had his meds'
...then I usually just wait to throw a mutual hissy fit with you over some slight performed by our government (aren't there always more to come?) and the serenity disappears and we once again get to share a rant.
So, thank you Paradox, for your realism and your honesty.
Anjha
Posted by Anjha at June 22, 2008 09:05 AMParadox, you still look bitter. That's a shame, I'm very happy. You beat me with the sign...haven't done that yet. Nice to see you're going to getting out more. A fresh view is always nice. Get out some more maybe your bitterness will ebb. We've got a great country with a wide diversity of interest. President Bush has kept us safe. General Petraeus has done a marvelous job and will get even better service with CentCom command. With war funding and FISA done, our Congress can now attend to more domestic concerns. My company expanded into your area and isn't looking to pull back...not at all.
Come on Paradox...be happy!
Your roses do look good!
Posted by peter at June 22, 2008 09:11 AMWhy so sad? Surely you knew he was just a politician. He's on tape saying had he seen the intel and been in the Senate at the time, he probably would have voted to go to the UN with the provision added that Bush could go to war.
Surely you didn't dismiss his present votes in Illinois as pushing the wrong button or that his vote at the time didn't matter.
Are you going to be equally upset when he pushes for the evangelical vote? Because it's coming.
Just keep in mind he's the presumptive nominee. The democratic party still has a chance to get a spine at the convention and let the process work the way it's suppose to.
Posted by jmac at June 22, 2008 09:21 AMIt's a shame you feel obligated to support a candidate who doesn't represent your values.
Perhaps you should consider becoming a PUMA.
Posted by myiq2xu at June 22, 2008 09:34 AMParadox, I thought you were a woman, in fact I thought you said you were a woman. Surprise. Regardless, I like your attitude.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 22, 2008 09:42 AMI'm betting there are a lot of telemarketers and door to door salespeople who'd give lots of money for your address and phone number. Not only are you a pushover and proud of it, you (in essence) called the people righteously pissed over the FISA vote and Obama's support of it drama queens! As for that voice in your head, I wouldn't be too sure it's Digby's...
Perhaps you should consider becoming a PUMA.
paradox may be a pushover, but he's not a dork. This PUMA shit is just stupid. Like I said to the rabid Hillary hater in the open thread - the primary's over. Even Hillary's moved on. Get the fuck over it!
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 09:44 AMKudos for doing the right thing even though you are rightfully unhappy with what's gone down this week.
Posted by Geek, Esq. at June 22, 2008 09:52 AMAfter Obama's extremely equivocal non-statement on the FISA bill (not to mention his record-breaking rush to pander to AIPAC), you STILL put out signs and bumper stickers for him?!
Alrighty then.
Posted by Shirin at June 22, 2008 10:18 AMDo you see the hatred you are engendering for the party's candidate, Paradox? Do you, Steve Soto? And you and the rest of your diarists and readers call yourselves Democrats? If you're going to support the Democratic candidate, act like you mean it.
The Left Coaster needs to decide if it is indeed The Left Coaster or if it's going to be The Rightwing Coaster by quietly supporting the likes of McCain by being so insulting and downright degrading to the Democratic candidate's campaign. I never imagined I'd see this place turn into what it's become. I remember hearing repeatedly how the diarists and mods were going to support the Democratic nominee, no matter who it ended up being. Well, where's that support? Sticking up a sign, setting next to it and grimacing isn't support. It's the exact opposite. It says, "Don't support Obama." Is that what you're trying to convey at this site? A lot of the posts and diaries here indicate that in fact you aren't supporting the Democrats or the Democratic candidate. So, then, what is this site?
Now, back to avoiding this place again.
Posted by Brian Bell at June 22, 2008 10:55 AMAny progressives, liberals or other non-rich, non-right-wingers who may be questioning whether they should go all out for Obama over McCain really ought to check themselves into a Political Reality Clinic.
Posted by James E. Powell at June 22, 2008 11:01 AMThis PUMA shit is just stupid.
No truer words have been spoken!
Posted by Seven of Six at June 22, 2008 11:05 AMNow, back to avoiding this place again.
Woohoo! Things are looking up!
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 11:14 AMPUMA is a declawed pussycat.
Posted by TIKI AL at June 22, 2008 11:14 AMPUMA is a declawed pussycat.
You know, I can understand their anger a bit, 'cos the primary was so fucked, but gathering together and making a logo and stuff is just so gradeschool.
I do have to feel bad for paradox now, though. First I bust his ass on being a pushover, and then the purity trolls come in and start busting his ass for not being supportive enough. Good ol' Brian (may he keep his word and go away) is the other side of the PUMA coin, in my book.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 11:25 AMCoyote, fuck off, cunt.
Posted by Bell at June 22, 2008 11:28 AMCoyote, fuck off, cunt. - Brian McCain Bell
Change we can believe in!
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 11:34 AMI'm all for freedom of speech, but that misogynistic nasty post by bell has no place here.
Would a "Vote Democratic for the Supreme Court" sign or bumper sticker help the down ticket as well as Obama?
Posted by TIKI AL at June 22, 2008 11:36 AMWould a "Vote Democratic for the Supreme Court" sign or bumper sticker help the down ticket as well as Obama?
I sure hope so! I'm giving to Darcy Burner directly, though, not the Dem Party. I wish Gregoire would get some commercials on the air, though. Rossi supporters are inundating the radio here with commercials against Gregoire - one of them calls her a supporter of child molesters.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 11:48 AMThat wasn't misogyny, Tiki Al, that was directed at a particular human being, not all women or people. As my post above the last one showed, I am more than capable of registering displeasure without four-letter words. But Coyote has never done anything but insult me, even when we are apparently as now down with the same candidate. So, I talked to her with the same amount of respect she has shown me over the months I have come to be acquainted with her writing. I don't recall whipping out four letter words so quickly for anyone else, but she's doesn't deserv any better from the likes of me.
Posted by Brian Bell at June 22, 2008 11:49 AM...but she doesn't deserve any better from the likes of me.
Posted by at June 22, 2008 11:50 AM...but she doesn't expect any better from the likes of me.
Fixed!
That wasn't misogyny, Tiki Al, that was directed at a particular human being, not all women or people.
Curiously, when I've defended Ann Coulter from gendered attacks, no one accuses me of being a closet Ann Coulter fan. They get that I'm making a point that sexism hurts all women, not trying to declare my allegiance to Coulter. But some people do argue that she doesn't deserve my defense, and I've seen the same excuse being used for failing to defend Clinton from misogyny during his primary.Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 12:01 PMNot only does that justification make me wonder what it would take to earn one's defense if "human rights are women’s rights and women’s rights are human rights once and for all" doesn't qualify, but it betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of how feminism works. Individual women don't have to earn a feminist's defense from sexist attacks; it is offered because a feminist recognizes how sexism works—against the collective. As Echidne says, it "hurts all women, all little girls, all old ladies, women everywhere."
If I had admin rights, I'd clean up the vomitus. But I also doubt Mr. Bell left that disgusting mess. Of course, if I was God, death by lightning strikes would be up 10x-15x.
Nice picture Paradox.
This is the first I've read of PUMA. The sick, dirty person I am, I can't help but think its some sort of joke word play on "cougars" . .
Posted by idiosynchronic at June 22, 2008 12:12 PMA guy calling a guy the c word is also misogynistic. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
I do agree with you, however, when you wrote that coyote is a "particular"ly warm and caring "human being".
Posted by TIKI AL at June 22, 2008 12:15 PMThe Republican party stood by its guy. Few (McCain occasionally, Hagel) had the guts to speak out.
Well, I'm not going to let the party I love change to a right-wing party (don't tell me O's a liberal - he's as Republican lite as you can get) and fall in line like lemming Republicans. And I'm not going to let the Democratic leadership get away with what they did and stand back and do NOTHING. They stopped a poltiical process that should still be going on.
All to get a nominee quickly. Well, you got your nominee and now your stuck with him - so frown all you want and call us names - you're the ones with no spine.
PUMA
Posted by jmac at June 22, 2008 12:15 PM"Vote Democratic for the Supreme Court"
TIKI, love the slogan. It speaks volumes about our future and why we must vote.
Posted by Judith#1 at June 22, 2008 12:22 PMDon't doubt it, it was me Idiosynchronic. I usually am at once more vehement as well as more polite in my disagreement, but I really think Coyote is a nasty person, and I'm not going to hesitate in calling her a name I believe accurately describes her. She has never bothered to do anything but insult me. So, on a rare occurrence like today when I post, I'm just going to insult her right back.
Anyway, my point to the diarists and mods remains the same. Is this a Democratic, leftwing blog or not? Show support for Obama, then. Don't grimace and sit in front of a lawn sign for him and then put a picture of that up. That says the exact opposite of support. It says this blog doesn't support the Democratic nominee. Of course, that would be fine, but claiming to be a Dem blog and not supporting the Dem candidate, which was promised repeatedly over the primary fight, means the blog isn't a leftie blog. I can think of few things more insulting than the tone of this blog over the last few months, and it's only gotten worse since Obama earned the nomination. Now, it's all about what Obama's doing wrong, but supposedly the mods will support him anyway, while tolerating repeated insulting of the candidate and calls to not support Obama in the comments threads. That's not the support for the Dem candidate that was promised. That is, in fact, hurting the Dem candidate. Is that what the mods, diarists and owner of this blog want to do? To engender hate and dislike of the Democratic candidate? What kind of liberal stand is that? I think it's not. And I think the mods, diarists and owners ought to start really rallying behind Obama instead of providing a forum to dis him.
Posted by Brian Bell at June 22, 2008 12:32 PMBut I also doubt Mr. Bell left that disgusting mess.
It's him, all right, and totally in character. You think I did it?
Well, you got your nominee and now your stuck with him - so frown all you want and call us names - you're the ones with no spine.
I, for one, am glad you didn't stoop to calling names! That would have been hypocritical!
COUGAR - C***s Over Unity Gripes And Rants
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 12:33 PMI was going to write something snarky about how you were still going to get attacked because you haven't declared your absolute, undying loyalty to Obama and Obama alone for the rest of your life, but Brian Bell kinda ruined that one.
So do yourself a big favor and take a few tokes on a blunt, sit down next to your Obama sign and give it a loving grin while wrapping your arms around it in an affectionate embrace, take a picture of that and post it . Then the rabid Obama supporters will accept you, and not a moment before. I mean, HOW DARE YOU allow yourself to be photographed looking unhappy around an Obama sign!!!!!!!!!!! This is unacceptable behavior. As Ricardo Montalban would say "Smiles! Smiles everyone!"
Sigh. I just knew Brian McCain Bell was lying when he said he'd go away. He's never bothered to tell the truth before. Ban 'im! 'e's a witch!
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 12:37 PMJeebus Brian... I say ban him as well!
It's more like you lost more arguments to coyote than her insulting you.
Everybody has the right to support the Democratic nominee in anyway they want. I personally am pissed at Obama now. I took my name off his mailing list and will not submit anymore donations for a while. A small protest, at least until he shows me his hand a little more. Pure and simple he's bailing on the constitution.
Don't worry I'm still voting for him
Paradox shows his support and is still being criticized. More power to you! Paradox still looks like he's got a little sly smile going... nice guns by the way!
Hey Paradox, did you go to High School in the San Jose area, you look familiar.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 22, 2008 12:53 PMI took my name off his mailing list and will not submit anymore donations for a while.
Good for you, SoS. It may seem like a small token, but I've seen a lot of other Obama supporters around the blogs doing the same thing, so it will add up. If everyone waits until after he's elected, he has no reason to listen, so the best way to get his attention is to hit him in the pocketbook while he still needs our votes. I also think it's a mistake for him to support the FISA "compromise" since it'll give the "Manchurian Candidate" meme more credibility than it'll give him national security cred. There're already people out there saying he wants the spying power for himself.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 01:05 PMWhat's "losing" an argument on a blog to Coyote, Seven of Six? I could sit and insult her back all day long. There was nothing rational in her first replies to me in this thread, just insults, nothing addressing my point. She insults and she belittles. I gave it right back.
Anyway, the real point remains. Do you really think that photo of Paradox qualifies as support for Obama, Seven of Six and OxyCon? Do you honestly believe that? I'm sorry to let you know, that doesn't qualify as support. A picture of just the sign might. A picture of Paradox smiling with the sign might qualify. But that picture is not support, neither is all the sniping about Obama and not supporting him the kind of things you'd expect to read in a Democratic blog.
The real truth is, the begrudging Obama supporters and the so-called Democrats who are refusing to vote for him ought to take a good hard look in the mirror and think about the real reasons they don't want to support him. I think it has little to do with his positions on the issues, more liberal than Hillary, and more to do with the color of his skin.
Posted by Brian Bell at June 22, 2008 01:11 PMand more to do with the color of his skin.
You know, I'm pretty much convinced Brian McCain Bell is a GOP troll. Because his "help" for Obama's gonna lose the dems more votes than PUMA ever will.
I think it's time for the scout treatment for this nutcase.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 01:20 PM[You're done - ed.]
Posted by Brian Bell at June 22, 2008 01:33 PMGive it a rest Brian... I'm tired of supporting weak fucking Democrats!
Pissed off that they continue to shit on us and support bu$h/cheney policies, when in fact they should be impeaching the bastards!!
So no asshole, Obama will not get my money until I see some solid leadership!!
Not this feeble Daschle type of politicking!
From Dennis Perrin:
The current liberal clatter over yet another Dem "capitulation" (i.e. acting in their political/financial interests) is most amusing to witness. Truly, there are no bigger masochists in America than those who pledge allegiance to the mule. You can beat them, kick them, piss and shit all over them, and they'll come crawling back for more, hopeful gleam on their soiled faces. Why they don't break out the leather hoods, slapper whips, and ball gags and fetishize their surrender is a mystery, but then, libs are often the biggest teases. Maybe they're saving that for election night.Any conscious person over the age of 25 who is surprised by major Dem support for the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 is either deluded, desperate, or so whacked out on yagé that the mere formation of cogent thought is a minor miracle. Then again, I like the idea of countless liberals taking yagé trips. If nothing else, it keeps them occupied with inner-space, and who knows, they might make some conceptual/political breakthroughs before returning to this plasma plane. A long shot admittedly, especially when they see the savage mule's tail rise up and they slide beneath the beast to get crapped on. But one must remain optimistic, even as the shit piles rise. What ya gonna do, vote Green?
Touring the lib sites for cheap laughs yielded some pleasant discoveries, namely, a growing number of liberals who have had it with the system. Like Neo in "The Matrix," many are opening their eyes for the first time, seeing the Real World for what it actually is. They are not happy, however; many expressed sadness and depression. To be expected and part of the process. It's not easy to realize that you've invested in a fantasy and were played for a fool. I've been there and understand completely. And it doesn't get any easier, as people like us are decidedly in the minority. But it's the first, necessary step to freeing ourselves, for without that, there truly is no hope.
Yet, the major libloggers and their followers will have none of that. If you are left of center, you belong to the Democrats. End of story. One beloved blogger made some nasty noises about those daring to dump the mules, tapping out a little screed that would gladden any Stalinist. No matter how much blood the Dems drag this blogger through, loyalty will be maintained and insisted upon. This is seen by many as a courageous stand. Like I said, we have a long way to go.
Yay!
Posted by idiosynchronic at June 22, 2008 01:47 PMI'm making Perrin this week's Patron Saint of L'n'L.
Which means next week we'll hate his fucking guts.
Posted by idiosynchronic at June 22, 2008 01:49 PMBrian Bell - Obama's NOT more liberal than Hillary. You must live in that thermos with Bush.
If you didn't get a clue with that health care plan, his praise of Reagan as he repeated Republican talking points (soc. sec. in crisis), his trade advisors telling you not to listen to what he says on the campaign trial, his Reagan economic advisors, his statement 3 days after getting the nomination that he loves free trade, his religion, and on and and on . . .
So, like Obama, you play the race card. It's not going to work. People are rejecting him not for his race, but for his immaturity, arrogance AND THAT SEAL! He's Bush!
Posted by jmac at June 22, 2008 01:53 PM[banned means banned - ed.]
Posted by Brian Bell at June 22, 2008 02:19 PMWhoa, Brian, get a grip!
What's "losing" an argument on a blog to Coyote, Seven of Six?
Quite obviously, Brian, it's what happens every time you click Post!
Hey, SoS, I've never heard of this Perrin guy, but he's awfully funny, and pretty much in the same mind space as myself. People like Brian may think that blind loyalty is the way to go, but it seems like the most brainless move right now. After Obama's statement Friday? You can latch on to his "I'll fight immunity..." byte, but when Reid says the same day that he'll fight it, too, but adds that it probably won't work, you gotta know the fix is in. Why should they be rewarded for that?
And the more I think about it, the more I like paradox's picture, because it says "I've got your sign in front of my house, but you should know by my lack of a grin, it's not necessarily a permanent fixure." All the blogs with tepid support and righteous anger should do the same thing.
It's all about image, don'cha know. The campaign can easily dismiss a buncha blog posts and emails, but pictures? Look how just one made Brian tweak like Karl Rove at JeffyLube's crib.
Don't expect much, though - Obama had to care about progressive concerns and the online community during the primary if he had a hope of beating Hillary, and he needed the A listers to do it. But he's playing to a vastly different crowd now. Our usefulness is at an end, though I'm sure he realizes he'll have to throw a bone to the blogs if he wants our cooperation in debunking whatever the GOP throws at him after the convention. His online team's pretty good, but they're really stupid with the clunky astroturf campaigns. (Brian's an example of that one!)
Progressives have between now and September to get Obama to look our way - after that, his focus will be on the meat world voters, cos there's way more of them than us.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 02:36 PMHang in there, paradox. I hope there's still lots of steam in the boiler, as far as the internet revolution is concerned. Criticism of Dem leadership for serving Bush's Surveillance State is healthy political process. We can't simply "smile for the camera" over the so-called FISA compromise. I certainly hope the Convention process allows us the opportunity to vent some of our frustrations over our leadership's complicity in the bugging of America.
It will be better to reform the corrupt institutions of government than to become mesmerized with personalities. The odds are good, unfortunately, that both presidential contenders will want to hold on to the authoritarian powers the Bush administration has built into the Executive.
Glenn Greenwald is exactly right when he says:
"...this attitude that we should uncritically support Obama in everything that he does and refrain from criticizing him is unhealthy in the extreme. No political leader merits uncritical devotion--neither when they are running for office nor when they occupy it--and there are few things more dangerous than announcing that you so deeply believe in the Core Goodness of a political leader, or that we face such extreme political crises that you trust and support whatever your Leader does, even when you don't understand it or think that it's wrong. That's precisely the warped authoritarian mindset that defined the Bush Movement and led to the insanity of the post-9/11 Era, and that uncritical reverence is no more attractive or healthy when it's shifted to a new Leader.Posted by Copeland at June 22, 2008 02:59 PM
"People like Brian may think that blind loyalty is the way to go, but it seems like the most brainless move right now."
Republicans never, EVER fail to brainlessly and loyally follow their candidate. It is obviously NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO, but thats why they win elections. And thats why McCain will win this year. He can be as codger, nasty, and hypocritical as he wants, and repugs will only cheer harder. But with every single political slip Obama makes, he loses a good chunk supporters who fail to see the big picture. Democrats are the nice guys, that's why we lose.
It's a long road to November, and I see alot of tired and weary dems throwing in the towel along the way.
Posted by tad hominem at June 22, 2008 03:20 PMRepublicans never, EVER fail to brainlessly and loyally follow their candidate. It is obviously NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO, but thats why they win elections.
No, they win elections because they cheat. I'm not willing to win under those conditions, myself. Though I don't think it's going to be a cakewalk, I think Obama will win in November. The media can fluff McCain all they want, but with gas getting up to $4.50 a gallon and the economy tanking, people aren't going to be willing to take a chance on a third Bush term, I don't think.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 03:57 PMMy god, is Brian still trying to post after being banned? And he thinks threats will get his privileges back? scout tried that, and now he's banned for life, even though he still tries to post every couple weeks. What is wrong with these people??
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 04:17 PMParadox, don't be bitter. Obama ran the better campaign, he deserved to win. Hillary ran her campaign over $30 million in debt, she took the month of February off, she based her final campaign push on lies.
I don't want to see you put the Obama sign in your line as your way of paying up to the winners. I don't view politics that way. You should support Obama because he is the better candidate than Hillary. Obama is more ready to lead, you saw the way they ran their campaigns, Obama crushed Hillary.
Great sign on your lawn. This is an Obamanation and we're all just living in it.
Posted by Don't be Bitter at June 22, 2008 05:07 PMOMG!
Is that you, paradox? You are a guy. I apologize...truly, I apologize. I did not think a guy could be so whiney.
Posted by Bagley at June 22, 2008 05:32 PMAvoid McCain's abomination!
Join the Barack Obamanation!
Posted by TIKI AL at June 22, 2008 05:56 PMSince when did being a lefty mean we have to fall in line and provide unquestioning support for a candidate.
FYI - PUMA means "Party Unity My Ass," it doesn't mean "Hillary or McCain."
I'm not voting for Obama or McCain, because neither one is qualified for the job.
If the Democrats want my vote, they need to nominate someone qualified. Hillary isn't the only qualified Democrat, she's just the best qualified Democrat.
Posted by myiq2xu at June 22, 2008 06:08 PM[You're done - ed.]
Posted by Can U Not Talk? at June 22, 2008 06:18 PMYou're done - ed.]
I apologized...
Posted by Bagley at June 22, 2008 06:39 PMFYI - PUMA means "Party Unity My Ass," it doesn't mean "Hillary or McCain."
Bullshit, it was started by bloggers from the Hillary camp. So you damn well better take responsibility for it.
She lost fair and square.
Now the Hillary camp starts this PUMA shit... and it pisses me off because it all about Hillary still.
Hang on, SoS; Hillary has nothing to do with PUMA people. On the contrary, they're against her, too, since she backs Obama and is calling for unity herself. Trash these guys all you want, but leave Hillary out of it. She's no more responsible for PUMAs than Obama is responsible for Brian's insanity.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 08:07 PMBrian Bell:
You are not helping the cause. Dude put up an Obama sign despite unhappiness with Obama. That means he's doing exactly what can be reasonably be expected under the circumstances. Do not piss on your allies. Save it for the pitiful PUMAteers.
Also, never, ever, ever, ever, ever drop the "C" bomb on someone--especially while purporting to advocate on behalf of Senator Obama.
Posted by Geek, Esq. at June 22, 2008 08:35 PMHang on, SoS; Hillary has nothing to do with PUMA people.
I said, "Bullshit, it was started by bloggers from the Hillary camp. So you damn well better take responsibility for it."
When I looked for information on PUMA, I found this. Everyone of them are former Hillary bloggers.
Now Hillary herself doesn't have anything to do with them, [I think ;)] but they are all former Hillary sites.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 22, 2008 09:31 PMOf course they're Hillary bloggers, no one said they weren't. But then you said "Hillary camp started it," which makes it sound like she's responsible. She has nothing to do with them, period. She is not responsible for them, she's told them to stand down by supporting Obama. They are no longer Hillary bloggers at this point, they are now simply anti-Obama bloggers. And Larry Johnson's just a whack job. You can't blame Hillary for his insanity. The primary's over. Let it go.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 22, 2008 09:49 PMBut then you said "Hillary camp started it," which makes it sound like she's responsible.
No I agree, Hillary is not responsible for this underground group of fanatic Hillary supporters saying no to Obama. I meant camp, group... not campaign.
A lot of them were the same folks coming here for every eRiposte thread, waiting with adoring affection.
Whew... V.A. meds kicking in quick... later.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 22, 2008 11:25 PMCould someone please post a link to the Memo that says we're supposed to support the Nominee Presumptive uncritically on this blog (and other progressive blogs), no matter what he does or says? It must have been screened out by my e-mail spam filter . . .
Posted by HenryFTP at June 23, 2008 05:38 AMHenryFTP, it may have been filtered if it gave fair warning of the obscene names called if one dissented.
Posted by Sharon at June 23, 2008 06:15 AMSays iamcoyote:
"No, they (Republicans) win elections because they cheat. I'm not willing to win under those conditions, myself"
PUMAS think the Democratic leadership cheated when it looked at exit polling from Michigan and took away four of Hillary's delegates, yet refused to look at exit polling since March. We think they cheated when Pelosi and Dean started yelling in March that you win with one-half the pledged delegates plus one - NOT in the rules except if you're Donna Brazile.
And it's cheating to say this primary is over. The primary is over at the convention. You can go to the dog and pony convention and be proud to be a democratic or you can do what a lot of us have done and say Party Unity My Ass.
I don't believe for a minute that the Republicans would have forced a candidate down their party's throats - most of them don't like McCain - so don't be all high and mighty about Democrats.
Posted by jmac at June 23, 2008 11:06 AMjmac, It was over when Hillary agreed to the DNC rules.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 23, 2008 11:57 AMPUMAS think...MI/FL...
I know what you guys think, I spent a lot of time reading Corrente when Hillary was still in the game, because at least there was someone in the blogosphere taking Hillary's side and seeing some of the nasty stuff going on. I watched PUMA start up, and at first, thought it was a cute little acronym like the OFB and DFH. But then you had to go and get a logo (stolen from a shoe company if you're still using the same one) and make a movement, and try to push it on people who aren't all that into the equivalent of a he-man-wimmin-haters treehouse club. It's just silly, but hey, if that's what you're into, I'm not gonna stop you.
The thing is, Hillary is out of the race. She's thrown her support behind Obama. Anyone who truly supported Hillary will either do the same or bow out. Or you can get together with the GOP troll who's been hovering around here under many different names whining about FL/MI as well - he's up in this thread - under Can U Not Talk (get it? CUNT, haha) and fight it out somewhere else, since he's been banned for his cuteness, just like the Obama dork who called me the same thing.
I'm not going to try to get you to vote for Obama; it's your choice and your vote. But you must realize that since there is no primary any more, and no Hillary to support, there is no such thing as a Hillary supporter. Whether you like it or not, you're now considered, and consider yourselves, anti-Obama. That's your right, do what you want. But in places like this, anyone not supporting Obama, or anyone who is blatantly anti-Obama is going to be considered a troll and objectively pro-McCain.
It's just how it is. It's a big blogosphere, though, so have fun rehashing the primary over and over again if that's what floats your boat. But be ready for animosity from the people who want the Dems to win in November. For those of us who think that a McCain presidency should be stopped at all costs, you're looking like the enemy.
Posted by iamcoyote at June 23, 2008 12:13 PMHey Steve,
LC used to be a regular reading stop for me. I suggest a moratorium on Obama or Hillary related posts until some people on both sides get an effin' grip. (some of your trolls might lose interest too; they have short attention spans)
Arguing about who is more progressive is kinda like asking whether Bud or Coors is better. Neither one is Dogfish Head. But McSame is a bottle of Iron City that's been sitting on your dashboard all summer.
Eyes on the ball...
Posted by OkieByAccident at June 23, 2008 12:40 PMThe people who want the Dems to win in November should have taken a gander at the exit polling since March. Even the North Carolina exit polling was devastating to Obama.
He has lost Yellow Dog Democrats. And they're not racist Dixiecrat Democrats that left the party when the south turned Republican. They're loyal money-giving Democrats who are appalled at the Democratic process this primary season and unhappy with Obama's associates and Chicago history and church.
They're also upset with the direction the party is going. He's pro business, pro trade, pro bringing religion into the party and on, and on, and on. He voted for the Bush/Cheney energy bill.
I will not accept him as the Democratic nominee until after the convention - the delegates can still give us our strongest candidate.
Posted by jmac at June 23, 2008 12:45 PMokay, now I need to show my shallow side. Maybe even my - sexist, objectifying a man by making him a sex object - side
but Paradox, you sure are gorgeous.
Lucky for you I live very far away. :-0
Posted by the young Judith at June 23, 2008 07:08 PM