Every car parked in the sun in Phoenix this time of year has a solar powered stove called a dashboard. Great for eggs and forgotten lipsticks.
Posted by TIKI AL at July 7, 2008 12:54 AMThere's an electric car about to be released with this feature...makes sense to keep the car cool when parked. As to a Prius, no thank you, way too expensive, make mine a Yaris. Only $450 more a year in gas, save the $10k premium for the hybrid.
Posted by peter at July 7, 2008 06:39 AMmake mine a Yaris
I think I would rather have a Honda Fit. Honda seems to put more comfortable seats in its low-end cars.
Thank you, republi-cons. At the start of the Mad King's, idiot son of Bush the Weak, presidency the U.S. manufactured 40% of the world's solar cells. We now manufacture 8%. U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! Thank you for helping us be winners, republi-cons!
Posted by phidipides at July 7, 2008 07:54 AMJust trying to be Toyota friendly, the Honda's a better 'Fit', for a new car. I still love my Civic.
Talking about solar, China's making a bunch of it, creating a bunch of greenhouse gas in the process. Phidy-cent, seems the labor cost was too high here.
Posted by peter at July 7, 2008 08:16 AMHonda does, Phid. The Yaris seats are like tin buckets.
Anyone else see Opus this weekend? Highly appropriate. The real punchline is that the, "Speedy but bug-like plug-in hybrid [is still] (coming!)."
Posted by idiosynchronic at July 7, 2008 08:38 AMAs to a Prius, no thank you, way too expensive, make mine a Yaris. Only $450 more a year in gas, save the $10k premium for the hybrid.
There is some truth in that. But, like a typical peter post, only some. The hybrid premium is more like $2k, so peter is 1/5th right. (The Yaris and Prius are not equivalent, even discounting the hybrid feature.) An easier comparison can be made with the Camry, where it's pretty clear that the hybrid difference is about $2k.
Of course, if you live in Colorado your hybrid premium is virtually nil, due to the great state tax credit. And, if you choose a hybrid that still has the federal tax credit, a Colorado resident can actually buy a hybrid for less than a regular car.
Posted by Anonny at July 7, 2008 09:14 AM
Come on Anonny, a Prius doesn't sell anywhere for $17,500! Match apples to apples, both are being sold for fuel economy. There is a Camry hybrid being made! Both are lightweight made cars not made to last like Civics or Corollas.
Posted by peter at July 7, 2008 09:32 AM"so peter is 1/5th right"
better than his usual 0/1
Posted by Gay Veteran at July 7, 2008 09:35 AMPhidy-cent, seems the labor cost was too high here.
Nope. Europe and Japan lead the way because they bothered to invest in industrial development rather than personal enrichment and military spending. But then again, the republi-con party has two types of people: The wealthy and suckers.
Posted by phidipides at July 7, 2008 09:39 AMCome on Anonny, a Prius doesn't sell anywhere for $17,500! Match apples to apples, both are being sold for fuel economy.
peter, you really need to read the whole post before responding. I noted that: The Yaris and Prius are not equivalent, even discounting the hybrid feature.) Maybe YOU think that they are sold strictly for fuel economy, but for people who actually buy them there are other features that make a big difference.
There is a Camry hybrid being made!
Um. Yes. I mentioned that, but somehow you missed that.
Both are lightweight made cars not made to last like Civics or Corollas.
WTF? Based on what? Usually you borrow your lies from wingnut sites, but this time you appear to be making it up on your own.
Have you actually RESEARCHED this topic? (Stupid question, I know. Of course you haven't.) The Camry is of course the Accord competitor, and is of course as much made to last as the reliable Civic and Corolla. The Camry hybrid is identical to the Camry except for the electric-gas engine, the battery pack in the trunk, a vent for the battery pack, and addition noise insulation (to minimize the sound difference between electric mode and gas-electric). The Camry hybrid weighs *more* than the Camry.
Now, the original (1999) Prius was super lightweight, super small, and even had special low friction tires. In an effort to maximize gas mileage they overdid it. The tires wore out too fast and hurt braking. The model wasn't as safe. But, to their suprise, the hybrid was so efficient that they didn't need all those other things to get great mileage. The last two generations of Prius have been real cars, just with a hybrid engine.
Posted by Anonny at July 7, 2008 09:59 AMAfter our taxes are raised so the entire electric grid can be replaced to handle all these electric cars, how much will the bills go up?
I hope I wont have to run line 1 ahead of the meter again like I did in the 70's when Wisconsin Electric decided a greedy monopoly can charge whatever they like.
Posted by TIKI AL at July 7, 2008 11:03 AM"Come on Anonny, a Prius doesn't sell anywhere for $17,500! Match apples to apples, both are being sold for fuel economy." Yaris-manual goes for less than $14K, Yaris-automatic for less than $16K. What's a Prius go for these days? Mid twenties?
"Um. Yes. I mentioned that, but somehow you missed that."
No you mentioned comparing a Prius to a Camry, No comparison there, not in the same category. Why would Toyota make two vehicles in the same category...they're not that dumb.
"Both are lightweight made cars not made to last like Civics or Corollas."
A Prius will not age as well as a Civic or Corolla. Experience tells us this, those two name plates are better made and have lasting values. And I'm not talking resale value here.
You pay a lot extra for a Prius, $10K in most cases. The gas cost only is about $450.00 a year different at todays price. The car payment has the greater difference...much greater for the Prius. Give me a 5-speed Yaris over the equivilent Prius any day!
Yaris-manual goes for less than $14K, Yaris-automatic for less than $16K. What's a Prius go for these days? Mid twenties?
You're comparing apples to oranges. They are different cars. The Yaris is aimed at the low-end new car buyer -- it uses cheaper materials, the cheapest available engine, and minimal features. The Prius is aimed lower-to-mid range buyers, and the Touring edition at mid-range buyers. It offers better materials and more features.
The state of Colorado regularly studies the price of hybrids versus their comparable non-hybrid counterparts in order to calculate the tax credit. For the Prius the difference is just over $2k.
i>No you mentioned comparing a Prius to a Camry,
No, I wasn't. My point in bringing up the Camry is to illustrate the relative cost of a hybrid to a non-hybrid car. The Camry is a great example because a) it uses the identical system as the Prius and b) since there are hybrid and non-hybrid versions of both, they are easy to compare in terms of price.
NOW, if the argument you want to make is that the gas savings of a hybrid don't justify the extra price, that's a reasonable point. However, you wouldn't need to compare the non-equivalent Prius and Yaris, you could make that point legitimately comparing the hybrid and non-hybrid versions of cars such as the Escape or Camry or Altima. Of course, if you did that you wouldn't be able to claim that hybrids cost $10k more, would you?
The gas cost only is about $450.00 a year different at todays price.
That's only 100 gallons (if you are unlucky enough to pay California gas prices). If you assume an aggregate of 50 mpg that's only 5k miles, which is pretty low. I think what you meant is $450/year in gas savings. Which is probably right -- I remember doing the calculations last summer when the prices were far lower and came up with about $300/year in savings.
Now, let's say you are a potential Camry, Accord or Altima buyer and are considering the Camry or Altima hybrid (both use the Prius hybrid system, btw -- Nissan pays royalties to Toyota). The net cost difference is about $2200 or so, depending on feature sets (with car packages it's hard to to an exact 1-1 comparison, but that is the average difference). If you save $450/year in gas you'd break even in 4 years -- more if you want to consider NPV, fewer if you figure gas prices will continue to rise.
Now factor in the tax credits. Toyota has sold so many hybrids that its federal tax credits are gone, but with Nissan you still get the full federal tax credit. Then each state has certain benefits. As I said earlier, if you are in Colorado you would actually pay LESS upfront for an Altima hybrid than a non-hybrid Altima because of the combined tax credits.
In the end, the hybrid can be a good deal depending on your situation.
Believe it or not, I'm not a mid-range buyer. A Prius is out of the question for me, a Yaris isn't too good either. New that is.
"I think what you meant is $450/year in gas savings." That's it exactly.
"However, you wouldn't need to compare the non-equivalent Prius and Yaris." From my income level this comparison works. A new Yaris, is much closer to my income level than any version of a Prius. And, I was trying to keep within Toyotas brand. If you want a Toyota, the Yaris is cheaper for your budgets...middle income levels and less.
Hybrids have a long way to go. I'd rather see the Hydrogen Civic come out, or some electric powered...plug in for use in town. All of these vehicles are way too expensive and don't allow for lower income participation. They won't see those products as anything other than pie in the sky. And they will continually have to pay the high price for gas and be angry for doing it.
Drill here, Drill now, Pay less!
Posted by peter at July 7, 2008 02:25 PM,i>From my income level this comparison works. A new Yaris, is much closer to my income level than any version of a Prius. And, I was trying to keep within Toyotas brand. If you want a Toyota, the Yaris is cheaper for your budgets...middle income levels and less.
Dude, I'm okay with that. It's one thing to say "for my situation this car is better". I'm looking at my oldest kid going to college soon and although she'd like a Prius I'm thinking more Yaris or Scion for the same reason (and as she has to work to pay for part of it, she sees my point). However, let's not pretend that the Prius is $10k more than the equivalent car -- the Prius is a much nicer car than the Yaris or Scion, hybrid excluded.
Hybrids have a long way to go. I'd rather see the Hydrogen Civic come out.... Yeah, and I'd like to see a cold fusion car too. The question is, if you have to buy now, what are your choices? As the owner of a hybrid who did all the research, let me say that they are still a great improvement over non-hybrids *if* the financials work out for you, as they did for me. Of course, my first preference was not to replace my cars at all, but GM killed that plan by creating an electrical problem that causes their 7+ year old cars to die on the road without warning -- a problem that they deny but which now has several web sites devoted to it (there is no permanent cure). So, given that GM can't build a reliable pushrod V6, I wouldn't trust them with a hybrid. However, Toyota seems to have nailed their hybrid technology perfectly -- both Ford and Nissan license it. If you are buying new anyway and it fits your price range and the financials work out, the hybrid is better than the non-hybrid option.
Drill here, Drill now, Pay less!
Got some numbers behind that empty slogan?
Man, peter, I hope you're getting paid for passing on that oil industry bullshit.
Posted by Anonny at July 7, 2008 05:07 PMThat's a big *if*.
I've got four in school, two part time, two full time. We weren't able to do new for any of them.
no oil money here, nor natural gas either.
Posted by peter at July 7, 2008 05:20 PMpeter: You're missing an opportunity. Contact Heritage foundation and tell them you're willing to troll the internet for cash.
Posted by Anonny at July 7, 2008 05:23 PMMake this a job...yuck!
Keep it fun...no pay.
Posted by peter at July 7, 2008 06:02 PM