I saw almost all of the interviews last night with Rick Warren. It was the first time in ages I've seen McCain sounding awake and not insane, which is worrisome. I thought they both did well. Of course, it was easier for McCain because the GOP platform more closely matches the issues evangelicals are interested in, but in areas where they both gave similar answers, McCain was sort of all gung-ho enthusiastic and Obama was "thoughtful and professorial." Nothing wrong with that, but just very different styles.
The talking heads said Obama made a gaffe on the question dealing with abortion--at what point do the unborn have human rights. A different wording to when does life begin. McCain immediately said at conception, which of course poses all sorts of logistical problems if an embryo has the same human rights as the mother. Obama said that whether you're looking at it from a theological viewpoint or a scientific viewpoint, that answer is "above my pay grade." I thought that was a great answer--we don't know. Didn't think it was a gaffe at all.
I liked the format--being asked the exact same questions without hearing the other's answer.
McCain did pretty well talking about Georgia--of course simplified the whole situation down to big bad Russia vs. poor victim Georgia, but for someone not really paying attention to the nuances of the situation, it sounded like he knew what he was talking about. I didn't hear any of the foreign policy mistakes he's been making, though I wish someone would question him on his assertion that Patraeus has taken us from defeat to victory in Iraq. Apparently we've won there. If that's the case, great--let's get out! I also wish someone would question him on just where he wants to put his 45 new nuclear reactors. Will one go near his house in Arizona? And how does he plan to protect them against terrorism when he (as he said last night) wants to give every family a $7000 tax credit per child. I couldn't tell if he was serious or not.
Done with my blatherings. Did anyone else see it?
Posted by CG at August 17, 2008 06:44 AMNo, I didn't see it, but what I want to know is when will churches lose their tax exempt status? Talk about interjecting religion into politics.
Maybe NARAL can have the next interview with McCain and Obama.
Posted by Judith at August 17, 2008 07:08 AM
Last night at the Saddleback Church, both candidates were asked to name three people they would turn to for advice. Obama's answer was sort of predictable ... Michelle, his 'typical white' grandmother, and (not limiting himself to just three) he added Sam Nunn and Tom Coburn.
McCain's answer was far more interesting, the most interesting thing I can find that he said in the whole interview. He said:
David Petraeus
No surprise there, 'cause winning the occupation of Iraq is his #1 issue, and Petraeus is the only guy who ever had a good idea for how to actually go about winning.
Meg Whitman (founder of eBay)
Also no surprise, she's one of his top campaign advisers and a brilliant entrepreneur.
But his third one is the kicker:
John Robert Lewis, U.S. Representative for the 5th Congressional District of Georgia
John Robert Lewis?!?!?!?!?
First thing I'm gonna point out, those two gentlemen have been in Congress together for more than TWENTY ONE YEARS. Has McCain EVER asked his advice, even ONCE, in those 21 years? Are they friends? Have they ever shared a private meal together? Have they ever even spoken to each other privately?
Here's a bit more about John Lewis, taken from his Wikipedia article:
* the son of sharecroppers, born in Troy, Alabama
* beaten bloody by a white mob in Montgomery as a Freedom Rider in the spring of 1961
* chairman of the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) in 1963
* prominent role on the Selma to Montgomery marches (1965), when police beat the nonviolently marching Lewis mercilessly in public, leaving head wounds that are still visible today
While McCain, child of privilege until the day he was shot down over Vietnam, lived in the Deep South. During the years 1961 - 1965, he was in Pensacola (and aboard several carriers). He is primarily remembered, during those years, not for any sort of activism in the area of civil rights, but instead for his drunken debauchery and partying.
More recent info on Lewis:
* Congressman since 1987
* "the first major House figure to suggest impeaching George W. Bush," arguing that the president "deliberately, systematically violated the law" in authorizing the National Security Agency to conduct wiretaps without a warrant.
* outspoken progressive and staunch opponent of the Iraq War
* one of the 31 who voted in the House to not count the electoral votes from Ohio in the 2004 presidential election
* Obama supporter, after switching from supporting Hillary Clinton
So in other words, if McCain were to ask John Lewis for advice today, he'd get: "Bring home the troops, end the war, vote for Obama."
And I ask you: Is there anybody here stupid enough to believe that John McCain will listen to advice from John Lewis, even once in his whole life?
This man just lied to a man of God, his congretation and the nation. Obama, please use this and put this race in Guinness Book of World Records for the "Most Lopsided US Presidential Victory" in world history.
Posted by Airborne Ranger at August 17, 2008 07:32 AMIt's 3 am. The decision to bomb Russian troops in Georgia has to be made.
1. Wake up Michelle.
2. Call Grandmama.
I'm waiting for the GOP ad to hit any second now.
Posted by TIKI AL at August 17, 2008 08:01 AMTIKI, then Obama can hit back with:
3. The president's aides are still trying to wake John McCain.
4. Boom.
I see a little girl in a field of poppies, smoke wafting from a hookah beside her, keeled over from from the fumes. P-shop in a mushroom cloud on the horizon and... uh... it means something someone somewhere.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 17, 2008 08:21 AMNo, I didn't see it, but what I want to know is when will churches lose their tax exempt status? Talk about interjecting religion into politics.
They can't. Separation of church and state as you guys rattle on about means the state can't tax the church.
Posted by m12 at August 17, 2008 08:45 AMThe talking heads said Obama made a gaffe on the question dealing with abortion--at what point do the unborn have human rights. A different wording to when does life begin. McCain immediately said at conception, which of course poses all sorts of logistical problems if an embryo has the same human rights as the mother. Obama said that whether you're looking at it from a theological viewpoint or a scientific viewpoint, that answer is "above my pay grade." I thought that was a great answer--we don't know. Didn't think it was a gaffe at all.
Abortion prunes the populations of key Democratic constituencies, so we might as well keep it around.
Posted by m12 at August 17, 2008 08:49 AMI like it, uRcoyote!
And then they can show the "little girl" from the original "daisy ad" losing her SS due to McCain's fraudulent corporate privatization scheme.
McCain can be dressed in black with Zorro hat and evil landlord mustache while he pulls in her piggy bank with his whip.
What the hell, why stop there? Have him down a bottle of Viagra, rape her, and drive off in Novak's black slightly damaged Corvette. (John had one to chase women with in Pensacola, and Novak can't drive it anymore, anyway.)
Posted by TIKI AL at August 17, 2008 08:59 AM(John had one to chase women with in Pensacola, and Novak can't drive it anymore, anyway.)
Shit, every flyboy in Pensacola had a corvette in the olden days. Now it's prolly a Lexus or Infinity or some such.
But I love the scene snatching the old lady's piggy bank from her. If only I had photoshop!
Posted by iamcoyote at August 17, 2008 09:03 AMI watched it. Twice almost.
At first run I thought that McCain had been better then, after some thought and rewatching Obama, I think Obama was way more on the mark with everything. Short - 1 to 2 minute answers on questions of things that would take philosophy students entire quarters (sometimes entire careers) to deal with, however, is pretty dumb.
McCain's world is black and white. There is no room for any nuance. No room for any "what ifs". No room for any "ands". It is all black and white and the world does not work that way. It also makes for scary times when the chief executive cannot way differing situations and variables.
As for the "what three people would you look to for wisdom question" Obama made clear that he would never limit it to 3 people. He said that he wants a table of advisors and especially people who will disagree with him and people who would look at things differently than him.
I think this was the right answer.
I do think it would be difficult for someone who did not re-watch it to re-compare it. With McCain going second it was the most recent to think about. Obama should have went second. That would have been a better order for Obama.
Also, I take issue with one Christian dude asking the questions. The whole "faith forum" thing was bad enough. But if they had to do it, why not have a Buddhist and a Muslim and a Jew and a Hindu and an Athiest too?
When McCain said that we were a nation founded on "Judeo Christian" values I about threw the teevee out the window.
Posted by Anjha at August 17, 2008 09:23 AMI liked the format--being asked the exact same questions without hearing the other's answer.
And, ditto, CG.
Posted by Anjha at August 17, 2008 09:24 AMm12: I'll bet m1 thru m11 know how to google:
New York Times
Synanon Church Loses Its Tax-Exempt Status
UPI
Published: May 29, 1982
The Internal Revenue Service removed the tax-exempt status of Synanon Church Friday. No reason was disclosed.
TESTING THE FAITH
Church loses
tax-exempt status
Organization had
placed newspaper ads
criticizing Bill Clinton
By Julie Foster
© 2000 WorldNetDaily.com
Yesterday, a federal appeals court upheld the Internal Revenue Service's decision to revoke the tax-exempt status of a church that had paid for newspaper ads against then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton in 1992.
Church could lose tax-exempt status for anti-war sermon
LOS ANGELES (AP) — The Internal Revenue Service has warned a prominent liberal church that it could lose its tax-exempt status because of an anti-war sermon a guest preacher gave on the eve of the 2004 presidential election, according to church officials.
m12: I'll bet m1 thru m11 know how to google:
Bet they don't.
Posted by phidipides at August 17, 2008 09:36 AMAnjha: The low info sheep-peep voters don't have TIVOs. And if "they" did, "they" would be re-watching "The Nanny" episodes until "they" finally get the 1 mediocre joke written into each episode.
"Shit, every flyboy in Pensacola had a corvette in the olden days. Now it's prolly a Lexus or Infinity or some such." ...back then Playboy magazine had a contest on best car to do it in. Lincoln Town Car won. Mine was dark burgandy.
"Bet they don't." ...if m"Einstein"12 is any example of the others, you are probably correct, sir.
Posted by TIKI AL at August 17, 2008 10:03 AMI watched it.
I watched after my sons b-day party, half drunk... thinking the whole time McLame had been prepped on the questions, or heard them through the "cone of silence"!
Watched again this morning... more convinced McLame had been coached on the questions!!
Posted by Seven of Six at August 17, 2008 10:25 AMI watched after my sons b-day party, half drunk... thinking the whole time McLame had been prepped on the questions, or heard them through the "cone of silence"!
Watched again this morning... more convinced McLame had been coached on the questions!!
Yay for conspiracy theories!
Newflash: Obama lost the coin toss, and your boy stunk.
Posted by m12 at August 17, 2008 10:59 AMThis man just lied to a man of God, his congretation and the nation. Obama, please use this and put this race in Guinness Book of World Records for the "Most Lopsided US Presidential Victory" in world history.
Kind of impossible to do that, the way Nixon and Reagan have shitted on their opponents.
Posted by m12 at August 17, 2008 11:01 AMWatched again this morning... more convinced McLame had been coached on the questions!!
The questions were aimed toward a conservative evangelical audience so McCain had it easier--just answer based on the GOP platform and you're good to go. Obama was trying to win over some of these voters without totally alienating progressives. So he had to be more thoughtful in his answers. Easy for McCain to say "life begins at conception!" Easy for him to answer his most gut-wrenching decision too. I thought Obama's answer to that was pretty bad--opposing the war. Umm, his decision to oppose the war would have no serious consequence to himself (unlike deciding to stay on for more torture) and no consequence whatsoever for anyone else. How is that gut-wrenching? So I don't think McCain was coached--I think the questions were geared toward his strengths with that particular audience.
I did notice he had to think hard about who the 4 "liberal" justices were. I really wish someone would challenge the GOP talking point that conservative justices don't legislate from the bench. They just did that by outlawing trigger locks when they overturned DC's gun ban.
Posted by CG at August 17, 2008 11:48 AMNaw CG, he was coached... someone over at Digby's blog noticed there was a moment when McLame asked Warren when was the question about SCOTUS.
If he wasn't coached he had a heads up on the questions.
Nothing comes out of McLame's mouth intelligent spur of the moment. He had to have been coached. Think back on the question of Viagra... deer in headlights, rubbing his chin, scared to death for not knowing an answer, spur of the moment, to a question.
Posted by Seven of Six at August 17, 2008 12:15 PMSoS, I think that McCain had a heads up on the questions and had to have been coached too. I have read a lot of other people thinking the same thing.
I have watched McCain a lot during this primary season and I have never seen him answer anything that quick with that much coherence.
Posted by Anjha at August 17, 2008 12:30 PMTIKI, thanks for the rebuttal to M12 on religious groups losing their tax exempt status. A little surprised that M12 doesn't seem to know this. I have known it since I was 18 when Madelyn Murray was fighting to get churches taxed.
Church or religious organization can lose their tax exempt status for engaging in partisan political activity, like endorsing a political candidate. Tax exemption is a privilege, not a right.
The only thing houses of worship may NOT do is endorse or oppose candidates for public office or use their resources in partisan campaigns. This restriction, which is found in federal tax law, is not limited to churches and other religious ministries. In fact, it is applied to every non-profit organization in the country that holds a tax exemption under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.
Contrary to the claims of many in the Religious Right, the IRS is not singling out houses of worship for special regulation. Thousands of educational, scientific, charitable and literary organizations hold the 501(c)(3) status, and all must abide by the legal requirement barring involvement in elections.
Why does this rule exist? The answer is obvious upon a moment's reflection: Non-profit organizations receive tax exemption because their work is charitable, educational or religious. That tax benefit comes with conditions. One requirement is that tax-exempt organizations refrain from involvement in partisan politics. This is a reasonable rule, since tax-exempt groups are supposed to work for the public good, not spend their time and money trying to elect or defeat candidates.
Current efforts are to make a direct change in how the laws read in order to ensure that churches can become fully active in political campaigns.
Posted by Judith at August 17, 2008 01:25 PM
"A little surprised that M12 doesn't seem to know this." ...yes, there is a massive quality control and moral problem due to the lowering of entry level qualifications in the paid troll army lately.
The troll managers are now holding their job fairs at crack houses.
Posted by TIKI AL at August 17, 2008 01:47 PMMcCain asked "are we going to talk about judges later, or should I bring that up now?" Anyone could guess there would be a question about the Supreme Court. Perhaps the candidates were given a general list of areas that would be covered, but it doesn't take a genius to guess some of them. McCain did have a hard time with the first question--who do you think is wise that you would take advice from.
Posted by CG at August 17, 2008 03:15 PMGermany now pushing for NATO protections in Georgia. The Ukraine wants to join in the US-led missile shield in Europe joining Poland. The west is beginning it's push back. PM Putin will have to pay for sending it's 1980's tanks into poor Georgia's lands. Man, the Israeli's must have really hurt Russian arms sales by their foray into Syria last September. Nobody wants to buy a system that doesn't work. The Russians sold a lot of people a piece of junk.
I'm left wondering if the Turks will let an American aircraft carrier group sail into the Black Sea. Maybe CentCom may dispatch some troops withdrawing from Iraq up north to oversee peacekeeping ops. Maybe the Turks will help us out here too. How far is it from Baghdad to Tbilisi?
Judith, Andrew Young's mother isn't buying the idea that her son is the father of Hunter's baby.
And Phid, Oklahoma's favorite son T. Boone has urged McCain to include ANWR in the off shore drilling push this fall at a meeting recently.
Posted by peter at August 17, 2008 03:23 PM