All things considered, good choice, Barry. Now GO KICK SOME REPUKE ASS, MUTHAFUCKAS!!!!!
Posted by Sharkbabe at August 23, 2008 09:48 AMI've never been a Biden fan, mostly due to his habit of talking one way and voting another. That said, I wasn't a fan of the other main choices either, just as I wasn't a fan of the Clinton or Obama choice either. But Obama/Biden will get my vote, solidly. The one thing I like about the Biden choice is also part of my problem with him....he's a great interview due to the fact you never know what he'll say. This has ingratiated him with the Beltway Media and prominent Talking Heads and I believe that will make it very hard for them to attack him. I also feel he'll be an asset in the VP debate format. In the end, all I've ever wanted was to elect a Democrat president and end the Bush Fiasco Years. I think Biden will do more to achieve that than the other finalists for VP.
Posted by T2 at August 23, 2008 09:50 AMI am no Biden fan. I used to refer to Lieberman and Biden as the Odious Joes for their right-wing enabling appearances on the Sunday shows. I think that they were ranked first and second among Democrats for appearances on those shows, though I could be wrong. While he can sometimes come up with memorable moments and lines, "a noun, a verb and 9/11," for example, I don't recall him ever saying anything that moved me.
And I can't help but recall moments like this, which I clipped from CBS via commondreams.org:
The most revealing and thus absurd moment came when Sen. Joe Biden harangued Gonzales for sidestepping tough questions, "This is not about your intelligence, this hearing is not about your competence, it's not about your integrity - it's about your judgment and your candor," he said. "We're looking for candor, old buddy. I love you, but you're not very candid so far."
But Biden used up his allotted time with this unpunctuated sermon leaving Gonzales no time to speak, much less speak with candor.
That said.
For liberals who really are true the only question is whether Obama can win the election. It is, after all, one or the other.
And for that, we need only to strip the teflon off of McCain. He cannot win, he cannot even compete, without it.
The 'but I'm a POW!' excuse has to be turned into a widespread punchline and there must be sustained and pointed attacks on his 'straight-talking maverick' image. Biden may turn out to be someone who helps with those things. I really don't see what else he brings.
Posted by James E. Powell at August 23, 2008 10:13 AMbest choice out of the finalists. Not that it says much.
Interestly, Jeralyn jumped right on to supporting Obama's campaign...guess she is having a hard time swallowing the boot after she had the foot shoved down here throat. I feel her pain.
Posted by the young Judith (tyj) at August 23, 2008 10:14 AMObama chose Biden because Biden talks pretty? Now that's analysis and commentary you can bank on.
You should be thinking Jack Kennedy and LBJ. Kennedy didn't have the political chops to get Congress together on taking out the trash, let alone the changes Kennedy was attempting. LBJ was the arm-twisting, knuckle-crunching, back-slapping, last-of-the-New-Dealers S.O.B. from Texas who could. Nothing, absolutely nothing, Kennedy wanted would have been realized without LBJ. That's what you get with Biden.
Posted by phidipides at August 23, 2008 10:22 AM"You should be thinking Jack Kennedy and LBJ. Kennedy didn't have the political chops to get Congress together on taking out the trash, let alone the changes Kennedy was attempting. LBJ was the arm-twisting"
Doesn't differ much to your assessment of Bush/Cheney does it? Obama/Biden = Bush/CheneyII, just with a 'D' after it.
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 10:32 AMStrange pick. I thought John Kerry wrote the book on how to lose an election. Looks like Obama is writing the sequel. The Hillary fans are really upset about this, and I can understand they're looking to 2012 at this point. She was the better choice for the Democrats. Heck, many think she won the primary in the first place.
Posted by Muck at August 23, 2008 11:05 AMit's not that he talks pretty, phid, it's that he talks sharp. not quite steve's tier two, but a potentially blistering tier 1a.
Posted by Turkana at August 23, 2008 11:06 AMThe funny thing is Obama sent the text message at 3am. A huge slap in the face to the Hillary supporters, since she asked the question if he was "ready to answer the phone" at 3am. Huge poke in the eye.
Posted by Muck at August 23, 2008 11:06 AMObama/Biden = Bush/CheneyII, just with a 'D' after it.
Cheney grabbed powers that weren't rightly his, operating in the dark where no one could assess what he was doing. It'll be interesting to watch the Obama/Biden Justice Department collect the information that'll be used to hang The Mad King, Cheney and their republi-con supporters.
You know, the Geneva Conventions state that if you know a problem exists and you don't speak against it you are culpable. Didn't they use that standard to prosecute some German citizens after WWII? I hope the standard applies to post Mad King/Cheney and their supporters.
She was the better choice for the Democrats. Heck, many think she won the primary in the first place.
Republi-con shills defending Hillary! Ain't that a hoot.
it's not that he talks pretty, phid, it's that he talks sharp. not quite steve's tier two, but a potentially blistering tier 1a.
I agree, T. And I look forward to Biden putting McCain and the republi-cons squarely in the ashcan of history. It's the policy experience that will get us the progressive platform in the form of legislation.
McCain 08: "...noun...verb...P.O.W."
"his oft-repeated line that we had to stop acting like we had won some sort of prize."
Underneath it all, that was, in fact, the attitude of the warmongers. The bottom line goal of attacking Iraq was to capture it for the empire, and they are still desperately clinging to that goal.
Posted by Shirin at August 23, 2008 11:20 AMOne small sign that Biden is a good pick: peter's and muck's trollings take on a tone of desperate flailing.
Posted by James E. Powell at August 23, 2008 11:31 AMYeah, Biden will help Obama as much as Bentsen helped Dukakis. *rolls eyes*.
Obama has always appeared most similar to Dukakis, but this really seals it.
Been here the whole time. Now we just got more to talk about.
Now Senator Bensten was a friend of mine...
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 12:10 PMAnd just like Bensten, the wrong guy is heading the ticket.
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 12:17 PMOOPs, he just said..."the next president, the next vice president of the United States." I think he had it right the first time.
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 12:20 PMMucktroll, your cred at this site, very limited at best, went way south when your boy Bush's economy, which you trumpeted, hit recession and the Banking/Mortgage industry tanked, along with the automobile industry. Not to mention the fiasco in Iraq and Afghanistan, the dismantling of the Constitution and the use of the Atty.General of the US as a bootlicking criminal henchman.
In short, take your BushCo opinions and shove them..hard. You've been wrong about everything.
Peter's probably eating his tie, like the Georgian Prez, Saakashvili.
Posted by Copeland at August 23, 2008 12:48 PMThe second coming of Kerry/Edwards, with the populist message coming from the underling. No "change", no new vision, a guy now running for vice president that helped get DC to where it is today...utterly broken. He was complicit with that. So now we've got two senators from the majority party running from a 9% Congressional approval that they helped create. 39% when they entered the 110th Congress, these two helped drive those numbers down to the 9% it is now...the very worst Congress ever.
What tie???
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 12:59 PM...these two helped drive those numbers down to the 9% it is now...the very worst Congress ever.
Isn't McCrytkeeper part of that congress... oh wait... he hasn't appeared since April 8th, 2008.
Peter, concern troll. Where are your chirpy, syrupy jibes, your goat-blown gambols? What's become of Sunnybrook Farm?
By the way, where is VP Cheney these days? We haven't heard much of him. His scowling face is nowhere to be seen.
Posted by Copeland at August 23, 2008 01:14 PMMajority sets the rules Seven. Give us the majority again then you can make that one stick. The minority is just on for the ride.
Lacking experience...go get someone that has it.
Lacking gravitas...go get someone that has it.
Lacking foreign policy...go get someone that has it.
Lacking credibility...go get someone that has it.
And on and on...That's Joe Biden...the "someone", that "someone" should be at the head of the ticket, not cleaning up for it's head
Chirp for the bronze god Petraeus. Chirp for the Surge. Chirp for POW McCain. Chirp for the blood-drenched ghouls in the White House. Chirp for Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. Chirp and twitter, peter, chirp and twitter.
Posted by Copeland at August 23, 2008 01:27 PMChirp and twitter, peter, chirp and twitter.
Ahhh! The mating call and display of the endanged republi-conus loseasaurus.
Posted by phidipides at August 23, 2008 01:45 PMAhem...
"Filled a gap, rather than reinforced
by kos
Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 09:52:50 AM PDT
I wrote a a month ago:
we really, really don't want to pick someone who plugs a supposed gap in Obama's armor. You pick Wes Clark, and people won't see "phew, national security is covered!". Nope, they'll see, "Obama is trying to compensate for his lack of national security creds!" And whether it's Sam Nunn, or Joe Biden, or anyone else who supposedly patches up a weakness, the end result would be what Gore had to endure in 2000 -- "He picked Joe Lieberman to compensate for Gore's 'Bill Clinton' problem."
So now Biden is Obama's pick, and he's clearly not a reinforcing one. If Obama's core message is "change" and "judgment" based on his prescience on the Iraq War vote, well then, Biden is the exact opposite of those things. And the media has reacted accordingly. NY Times:
...Mr. Obama’s choice of Mr. Biden suggested some of the weaknesses the Obama campaign is trying to address at a time when at a time when national polls suggest that his race with Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, is tightening.
At the Wasington Post homepage, the blurb teasing their Biden story says:
In a move aimed at shoring up his foreign policy credentials, Barack Obama will share Democratic ticket with Delaware Senator Joseph R. Biden."from DK
Let me barrow all that I don't have, which means let me take your hard earned sweat and blood and make it mine without me sacrificing anything but my word. I'm ok with sacrificing my words, they're just words.
That's okay copeland, I'm more than satisfied with Obama's(Putin's) choice for Democrats this season. Your guy was lacking in so many ways and this smokin Joe has what he needs, which is a lot.
Joe Lieberman served the same purpose as Joe Biden does this year. John Kerry had to take junior Edwards. Just another forced marriage of convenience.
1. Biden's son is heading to Iraq. That's the kind of political street cred it takes something like five and a half years in a prison camp to earn.Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 03:05 PM2. Biden is a tough motherfucker. God tried to take him out with brain cancer, and Biden kicked God in the nuts. Don't you want a Vice President who can kick God in the nuts and not be allied with Satan?
3. Ron Fournier of the AP is a little bitch. Biden must have pissed him off somewhere down the road.
4. Yeah, he ain't perfect (see the Clarence Thomas hearings and his anti-Obama comments that are already being used against him). But if you're complaining, would you seriously have wanted the media talking about the tension between Obama and Clinton(s) for the next four to eight years? And would you have wanted to explain to every non-Virginian just who the fuck Tim Kaine is?
1. John McCain's son Jimmie has been to Iraq. His other son is heading there in the next two months. McCain gets twice the cred for that without even talking about "the money in the bank as a POW". Then there's Hunter Biden, a lobbyist for the banking industry. Doesn't Biden do some oversight with banking? Or has he?
2. Biden's a nice guy, but he doesn't bring any states with him...Delaware hasn't been 'red' for how long?
3. personal...who knows?
4. And the Bush-Biden Bankrupcy bill closing loopholes with credit cards in favor of banks...Sen. Dodd calls this piece "the worst piece of legislation, ever!" Some people look at this bill as screwing the consumer. There's been a lot of foreclosures lately. How has this bill influenced those foreclosures????
Soon, you may be wishing for Kaine or Bayh.
TALKLEFT: "I think that given Obama's stubborn and wrongheaded unwillingness to pick Hillary Clinton and put a lock on the election, Biden was the best choice politically that Obama was willing to make (imagine the political disaster if he had picked Sebelius). But the rollout of Biden was disastrously bad, unless the idea is to make sure as few people know as possible."
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 03:45 PM"Biden's son is heading to Iraq."
That is hardly a point in his favour.
Posted by Shirin at August 23, 2008 03:59 PMThat is hardly a point in his favour.
Shirin, The Rude Pundit is a comic who spits out truth in streams of vulgarity. I find him funny. In any case, he's not saying that it's a cool thing Biden's son is going to Iraq, he's saying that to play the game the GOP way, Biden's present day son in Iraq trumps McCain's POW get out of gaffe free card. I guess you have to know his style to catch the cynicism.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 04:10 PMOK, Coyote, I get it - more or less.
But seriously, what kind of parent allows a child of theirs to take part in a crime against humanity, and put their life and mental and physical health at risk too?! I would move heaven and earth to prevent anyone I loved from being part of that.
Posted by Shirin at August 23, 2008 04:25 PMPS I cannot respect anyone who would accept their child being part of the Iraq crime, let alone someone who would act proud about it.
Posted by Shirin at August 23, 2008 04:29 PMI would move heaven and earth to prevent anyone I loved from being part of that.
I understand that, which is why both of my children wouldn't think of the military, despite being brought up in Navy squadrons. They make their own choices, however, just as Biden's son made his own choice. As a parent, you're proud of your children no matter what decisions they make career-wise.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 04:45 PMCoyote, no. I could never be proud of any child of mine for choosing a career as a trained killer. I could never be proud of any child of mine for choosing to become part of an organization whose raison d'etre is killing and destroying. I could never be proud of any child of mine for choosing to take part in a crime, let alone one of the magnitude of the imperial endeavor in Iraq. I would never be proud of any child of mine for choosing to be part of the imperial machine. I would be ashamed of them taking those actions, and I would not let them off the hook for a moment.
I WOULD be proud of a child of mine for choosing to resist being part of all that, but never for being part of it, and I would do everything in my power to stop them.
Posted by Shirin at August 23, 2008 05:07 PM1.Biden has a cat.
..I'm on board!
Posted by TIKI AL at August 23, 2008 05:22 PMWe'll have to disagree, then, Shirin. Short of premeditated murder, I couldn't disown my son. He's "trained to kill" as a Taikwondo blue belt. Should I disown him for that? And from what I understand, Biden's son is Atty. General of Delaware, working with the JAG office. I don't think he's "trained to kill." 'Course he's a lawyer, so he's pretty evil that way. I don't mean to mock your vehemence, Shirin, but I've never been able to tell my son what to do since he was 2 years old; now that he's 27, his choices are his own. I'm glad he resisted 4 generations of military men on his father's side, but I couldn't have faulted him if he'd followed them into the military. It was a family tradition. They all used it as a springboard to education and experience, which was what the military used to be about until the Bushes came along.
1.Biden has a cat.
..I'm on board!
Whoa. He's a cat person? I'm gonna have to rethink this whole thing.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 05:31 PMCoyote:
1) How did we get from not being proud to disowning? That seems a long distance, does it not?
2) Your son is not, I presume, "trained to kill" in Taikwondo with the expectation that he will kill people on command, is he? His Taikwondo training does not include conditioning intended to make killing people mentally, emotionally, and socially desirable, does it? If so, perhaps you should rethink this Taikwondo thing.
3) Regardless of his training, if Biden's son takes part in the Iraq adventure he is participating in the greatest international crime possible, a crime against humanity, and crime against the world order. And if he received normal military training, then he was trained to kill, and conditioned to find killing acceptable.
4) "a springboard to education and experience, which was what the military used to be about until the Bushes came along." Come on! I don't believe you are that naive. It might have been what some people used the military for (and took a huge risk in doing so), but it has NEVER been the purpose of any military. No military exists to benefit those who join or conscripted into it. The job of a military is to kill people and destroy things, and the troops are nothing more than expendable tools the military uses to fulfill that job. Militaries are, in the best of circumstances, used to defend the country in the case of an attack. Mostly they are used for conquest, and power projection. When was the last time the United States military was used for defense?
As for your notion that the military used to be all about opportunities for education and experience until the Bushes came along, perhaps you ought to ask those who were forced to participate in the Korean and Viet Nam wars about that. And then check it out with those who took part in and were wounded or killed in Clinton's various military adventures.
I am afraid you have a rather rose-coloured view of the way the military used to be.
Posted by Shirin at August 23, 2008 06:06 PMThere's a thought to place Clinton's name into nomination for the VP slot too. Boy, a bunch of her supporters are very mad at her treatment. Man, those PUMA's are getting stirred up...
A top Clinton advisor also told CNN they were “outraged,” over how the process was conducted.
“You can’t put [Obama VP vetters] Eric Holder and Carolyn Kennedy on an hour plane ride to Chappaqua just to check the box? They should have done it just for the optics,” this person said. “Barack never even said to her, ‘Here’s how I envision the job’– not one discussion with her about [the position].”
“They thought her supporters were mad before? They are really mad now,” this person also said. We knew it was never going to happen but you would have thought they might at least make a show of it.”
Former Clinton strategist Paul Begala echoed similar frustrations on CNN Friday night.
“I think there are a lot of Hillary voters who are going to say, ‘Hey, wait a minute, man. You said you were going to put her on the short list. You know, you didn’t even vet her. You didn’t call her. You didn’t seek her advice,’” Begala said. “By the way, he didn’t seek President Clinton’s advice either. He’s actually the guy who I think picked the best vice president in American history. You would think maybe you would sort of check in with him.”
A tidbit from Rasmussen for delegates and PUMAs to mull: “Women are notably less enthusiastic [about picking Biden] than men—33% of women say Biden was the right choice while 27% disagreed. Men, by a 46% to 24% margin, said that Obama made the right choice.”
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 06:27 PMHow did we get from not being proud to disowning? That seems a long distance, does it not?
Probably. I don't think we disagree, Shirin - I wouldn't be proud if my son was a mass murderer. But I wouldn't be un-proud if he decided he wanted to join the military, because there was a lot of pressure from that side of the family for him to join up. And mostly because a lot of his uncles did get an education out of the military, and never had to serve in a combat role, they saw it as an opportunity rather than signing on to a flawed national policy. I'm proud of the fact that he chose not to follow the male family tradition, probably partly because over the last several years he found me weeping over Riverbend's posts and understood the price paid on all sides.
4) "a springboard to education and experience, which was what the military used to be about until the Bushes came along." Come on! I don't believe you are that naive.
And I can't believe you're that disingenuous. I'm fully aware of the actions of the US over the last hundred years, but no matter how much you'd like to think it's so, most of the recruits in our military aren't signing up to kill the "other," they're trying to get out of job-scarce ghost towns hoping to find an opportunity to build a life somewhere else. The military offers a guaranteed paycheck, a hot commodity in any culture. Equating US recruits to disaffected radicals joining terrorist groups isn't a true comparison in my book. Maybe that's "rose-coloured" thinking, but I lived the military life for 16 years, and saw it first hand.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 06:50 PMI just had a thought a while ago which crystallizes why I think Biden is such a poor choice for Obama, especially in light of the worse than tepid numbers from the Rasmussen poll on the Biden pick.
Fewer than 40% of respondents think Biden is ready to be President. This is really shocking, given his level of experience.
Isn't the explanation that he isn't taken seriously? He has been a kind of court jester in DC for 20 years now. Sure, he says some interesting things from time to time, but nobody takes him seriously as a possible leader----he's too much of a buffoon.
Biden is an MBNA whore who was largely responsible for passing the draconian Bankruptcy debt servitude act. His position as Obama's running mate gives the ticket that indelible "BOUGHT AND PAID FOR" stamp.
Fuck all the candidates. I will be staying home election nite.
Posted by getaclue at August 23, 2008 07:20 PMCoyote, disingenuous is another word for dishonest, and I am quite offended and disappointed that you have chosen to insult me in this manner.
And just as you somehow managed to transmogrify not being proud into disowning a child, which are two entirely different things that are light years apart, now out of nowhere you suggest that I have of equated US recruits to terrorists when I have done no such thing? Please! These are not argument techniques that I expect from you.
I KNOW why many if not most recruits traditionally choose to join the military. Although some clearly DO join up to "kill me some ragheads" or something to that effect, most have different, less murderous motivations. However, that was not my point. My point was that whatever the motivation might be for joining - a way out of poverty, opportunity, education, need for income, stability, a sense of obligation, patriotism, etc. - the primary job of a military is to kill people and destroy things, that is what military people are trained and conditioned to do right from the very beginning. Ultimately the troops are expendable tools which the state uses for its purposes. Anyone, particularly these days, who joins the military without understanding that is not looking at reality very clearly.
And by the way, I don't "support the troops" - how can I when I abhor the reason they are there and what they are doing there? However, I am a big fan and a strong supporter of the organization Iraq Veterans Against the War. Last week I attended a local Winter Soldier fund raising event to pay IVAW members' way to the RNC and DNC. I paid significantly more than the maximum suggested donation when I entered the event because I wanted to support their efforts.
I am solidly behind their three demands:
* Immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces in Iraq;
* Reparations for the human and structural damages Iraq has suffered, and stopping the corporate pillaging of Iraq so that their people can control their own lives and future; and
* Full benefits, adequate health care (including mental health), and other supports for returning servicemen and women.
There is really no excuse for a state to expect its citizens to risk their lives, limbs, and physical and mental health without being prepared to take care of them when they return damaged. I don't have to "support the troops" or feel any sympathy or pity for them to find it completely odious and reprehensible that a state would do otherwise.
Posted by Shirin at August 23, 2008 07:31 PM"The Center for Responsive Politics has a thorough analysis of Sen. Joe Biden's campaign cash intake now that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., has selected him as his running mate.
The industry that has given Biden the most cash has been lawyers/law firms ($6,567,404) followed by real estate ($1,297,690). Pro-Israel groups are the 8th biggest contributing industry.
Obama may decry lobbyist cash (or at least federal lobbyist cash), but Biden has taken $344,400 from lobbyists since 1997 -- making lobbyists the 10th biggest contributing industry.
That seems a direct contradiction of the Obama message."
...
A brother of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton and local Democrats who backed her unsuccessful presidential campaign socialized privately Monday with a top surrogate of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Arizona Sen. John McCain.
The private gathering featured Carly Fiorina, Mr. McCain’s top economic adviser, and took place at the Dunmore home of political consultant Jamie Brazil, a longtime friend of Mrs. Clinton’s family who has signed on as paid national director of Mr. McCain’s Citizens for McCain Coalition.
The attendees included Tony Rodham, Mrs. Clinton’s youngest sibling, his wife, Megan, and their two children; attorney Kathleen Granahan Kane, who coordinated Mrs. Clinton’s presidential campaign in Northeast Pennsylvania during the primary election; and Virginia McGregor, sister of Scranton Mayor Chris Doherty.
PUMA alert
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 07:35 PMHe's "trained to kill" as a Taikwondo blue belt. Should I disown him for that?
Iamcoyote
No; he is not. If he continues the long journey, he would have that physical ability, but that is not the MEANING of that journey. I would assume that HE knows that. And you certainly should.
Well, jj, you surprise me with your understanding of the obvious. Kudos.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 08:06 PMYes, true liberals will have a lot of suffering to endure if Biden becomes Vice President. Given how many tie votes there are in the Senate and all. I'm already shakin' in my boots.
Posted by kaleidescope at August 23, 2008 08:16 PMIn November 2006, self-identified Democrats outnumbered Republicans by 6%. The Democrats' edge has continued to grow since then; in May of this year, it was up to 10.1%.
Since then, however, the Democrats' advantage has been falling steadily. As tracked by Rasmussen Reports, it declined to 9.5% in June and to 7.6% in July. My guess is that it will decline further when the August numbers come out.
"But, but, but, but we've done such a good job in registering folks."
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 08:18 PMCoyote, disingenuous is another word for dishonest, and I am quite offended and disappointed that you have chosen to insult me in this manner.
Shirin, I'm sorry if I gave that impression; I don't believe, and wouldn't want to give anyone the impression that, you're dishonest. I believe you tell hard truths, but in the telling, I feel you sometimes conflate the everyday guy who signed up in the military to get out of his one-horse town with the mercenaries who don't care about anything but their paycheck. I don't, in any way, dismiss your perspective, as I think it's vital to the discussion. Please accept my apologies if I've insulted you. I didn't mean to do so.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 08:27 PMCATFIGHT! Yu-uh umm!
Did I mention Biden has a cat? Fox showed a pic of it.
It's black and white, just like the ticket!
FYI, Steve:
Since 2003, Joe Biden has received $5,133,072 in contributions from FEDERAL LOBBYISTS. That's over FIVE MILLION.
Contributors include"
Lawyers/law firms (foreign countries)
Real estate (Corporate sub-primers)
Retired (AARP/insurance)
Securities and Investments (Hedge funds)
Financials (MBNA/credit card companies)
He will not be well received as an "ally" of the working class.
Due respect.
Posted by Mary at August 23, 2008 09:51 PMAnd by the way, how did he get past the Obama "no federal lobbyists" rule?
Posted by Mary at August 23, 2008 09:52 PM"Relatedly, Todd Beeton provides an interesting anecdote from Denver:
On my shuttle to the hotel, I encountered a storm of another kind: an Obama delegate from Illinois and a Clinton delegate from Massachusetts. When she said she was a Hillary delegate, the Obama delegate said facetiously: "Oh they're letting you in here, are they?" She retorted (in a friendly but stern way): "That's what's wrong with Obama folks. You're not reaching out to the Hillary people." It was the second time in as many days that I'd heard the same complaint from a Hillary supporter.
It is this arrogance that could sink Obama's campaign. Obama's supporters I find are his worst enemies now.
By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only" from Talkleft
Posted by peter at August 23, 2008 09:56 PMShit eating trolls are at it again. Why do you give a shit about Clinton supporters? FUCK YOU!
Concentrate on your shriveled up LIMP DICK McLame and the numbnuts he is going to pick!
For the record there are probably just as many Repugs that support Obama so EAT IT!
Posted by angryman at August 23, 2008 10:15 PMThanks for posting that, peter.
BTD is absolutely correct. They are their own worst enemies.
Sad, really.
Posted by Mary at August 23, 2008 11:07 PMMary - I have always considered you an intelligent level-headed person. We both know that the Repugs don't care about Democratic issues and are attempting to exploit what seems to be a rift in the between the Hillary supporters and Obama. I must say the this non-sense is amusing.
"It is this arrogance that could sink Obama's campaign. Obama's supporters I find are his worst enemies now."
Once the disaffected Dems see that McLame stands for more of the same, my guess is that they will come running home. Most of them can not take being without health care, stagnating wages, high inflation and gas prices. They will have to ask themselves, if being pissed off is worth letting McLame win? They will see the stark differences in policies and this will be a minor blip on the radar.
Furthermore, putting Clinton on the ticket would have energized Repugs like no other issue. The fact that you guys want Obama to grovel at the feet of the Clintons is unfortunate.
Posted by angryman at August 24, 2008 05:52 AMWell, jj, you surprise me with your understanding of the obvious. Kudos.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 23, 2008 08:06 PM
It was apparently not very obvious to you...I wonder why?
Posted by jj at August 24, 2008 07:24 AMAnd by the way, how did he get past the Obama "no federal lobbyists" rule?
Because Obama knew Hillary had taken more money from "federal lobbyists"!
mary, You can quit your whining over Hillary anytime now.
petie you are scared shitless...
Posted by Seven of Six at August 24, 2008 08:18 AMjesus 7 of 6 - do you just repeat the same tired crap in every thread, or what. I just read this exact post of your in the other Biden thread directed at another poster.
Believe me, you miss the wit mark both times - but bull eyes on the witless bull!
Posted by the young Judith (tyj) at August 24, 2008 11:03 AM
Scared...joyous more like it. From 1994 on y'all have thrown in the towel on just about every issue y'all hold dear. All for trying to win. Democrats are losing who they are each and every year, each and every election. Sure, my brand has been tarnished by several bad individuals, the basics still remain. You're brand is loosing it's identity. FDR wouldn't recognize your Democratic Party. Truman and Kennedy wouldn't either, LBJ...nope. Those great Democratic senators standing up to Nixon wouldn't.
We may have treated Ron Paul's people similar to the way y'all are treating Clinton's fans..just a maybe there. Ron Paul didn't represent half of the party. PUMA!
Posted by peter at August 24, 2008 11:37 AMjesus 7 of 6 - do you just repeat the same tired crap in every thread, or what. I just read this exact post of your in the other Biden thread directed at another poster.
It was directed at mary both times. Didn't you see her post the exact same thing? Your powers of observation are fading young Judas, er, young judith. Maybe you can get mary to stop her Hillary whining, K... or have her quit being on troll boy's side... loser.
I'm trying to get a Dem elected. All you're doing is bringing contempt and disillusionment.