Biden was good last night (not as good as Bill, but who can be?) but I wish they would all stop saying how John McCain is a good and honorable man. Many many people vote on character, not policy and many people don't trust Obama, whether because they don't know him, or they think he's too inexperienced, or his associations with Wright and others, or whatever and they'll say "well even the dems think McCain is a good guy, honorable, trying to do the right thing. Why not vote for him?" If they want to say something nice, just say he survived a horrific experience as a pow and leave it at that.
Posted by CG at August 28, 2008 05:00 AMI disagree CG.
The Democrats need to directly engage the McCain as hero/POW issue.
Clinton did that and Biden followed it up even better in his speech as well.
Give McCain his due for spending 5+ years as a POW. There's no reason not to.
But point out at every opportunity that you get that that's what he's using as his biggest claim on the presidency. And that while terrible and honorable it does nothing to make him more qualified than anyone else in the country to be president.
These times require more than a good soldier; they require a wise leader...
Posted by snark at August 28, 2008 05:37 AMI don't have a problem with them praising his military service or honoring the terrible experience he endured. But they are generalizing that he's this great man, and sorry, but I don't think he is. I think he's mean and a bully. But people who aren't comfortable with Obama will vote for McCain because they keep hearing that his this great man. They're not hearing he served his country, was a war hero, whatever--they're hearing that NOW he is a great and honorable man. How can you go wrong voting for that? They're overdoing it or not doing what they want to do effectively. The "more than a good soldier" line is good, but it was one line--they're not hammering it home. I'm hearing he's a great man who has bad policies, but a lot of people will vote for a great man with bad policies before they vote for an unknown or someone they see as not honorable or not patriotic even if his policies are better.
Posted by CG at August 28, 2008 06:02 AMThe GOP torn down Kerry, disgraced his Metals of Honor, made fun of his record, claimed at one point that perhaps he shot himself to receive the honor, worn purple bandaides to mock Kerry, and then we turn around and say McCain was such a hero for being a POW. Why mention it at all since this so-called war hero gave up information almost immediately upon capture, breaking the Code of Honor of the military?
I agree, we don't need to be promoting the perspective that McCain is such a terrific guy or a so-called war hero. Pointing out the differences between McCain and Obama is one thing, but telling everyone how much you love McCain is not my idea of running against the opposition. Would Rove suggest this tactic?
Posted by Judith at August 28, 2008 06:09 AM
I'm hearing he's a great man who has bad policies, but a lot of people will vote for a great man with bad policies before they vote for an unknown or someone they see as not honorable or not patriotic even if his policies are better.
I guess you're right.
Obama should tell the entire convention tonight that McCain calls his wife a cunt. That should pull a bunch of independents into Obama's column.
Posted by at August 28, 2008 06:12 AMWould Rove suggest this tactic?
Is that who you're emulating now?
This is a new kind of politics, remember?
Posted by snark at August 28, 2008 06:14 AMI suppose there'll be a "speech" posting later, but I, although its the last day, will tell you that watching on C-Span is 1000% better than watching on any broadcast/Cable channel. On last night's speeches: The reception for Bill was great and confirms my belief that if the Constitution would let him, he'd easily served 4-5 terms.
I voted for him twice, and although I was extremely disappointed by his personal failure, thought he was the best president of my years. It was really good to hear him give a speech to all the people again. John Kerry was as good or better, and I'd never have predicted that. It would appear that Kerry has a bit of an axe to grind with the GOP...I say "keep grinding it John". Joe Biden did very well and if he can stay on point and on message he'll be just fine during the campaign. His attack on McCain was sustained, my only gripe was his repeatedly referring to him as John. Too cozy for the situation. Just say McCain. I wish good luck to Obama tonite, even a pause at the wrong time will cause the Media to jump all over him.
By the way....an African-American is the presidential nominee of the Democratic Party. Never thought I'd see that. There is one more mountain to climb.
just reading the news....Iraq has signed an Oil Deal with China. Big Thanks are in order to George W. Bush for making Iraq safe so it can sell all its oil to China. Just great.
Posted by T2 at August 28, 2008 06:46 AM"All", not hardly, but thank you for acknowledging he's made it that safe. It's nice to see a new democracy function on its own, not the puppet that many here have painted it.
Yeah, I agree, Sen. Kerry seemed to have "grown a pair." He was very aggressive last night. Clinton was Clinton, Biden was Biden, misquoted Obama at least once...Obama said "brigades", Biden used the smaller reference. Quite a difference in size since three of what Biden refered to make up a single brigade. Great night for the Clinton convention...then Obama needed to show up to remind people he's the candidate.
Posted by peter at August 28, 2008 07:24 AMBig Thanks are in order to George W. Bush for making Iraq safe so it can sell all its oil to China. Just great.
So Iraqi self-determination is a bad thing now?
Is that just because the Bush administration can be "blamed" or because you were hoping that we'd keep a strangle hold on all the Iraqi oil for ourselves?
Posted by snark at August 28, 2008 07:24 AMI agree CG that Biden did a nice job last night.
He was gracious and charming and then bared his teeth. Some people didnt like that, but I thought he was aiming for a balance of nasty to Obama's reserve. He is a fighter, that is for sure.
And I agree, aint nobody ever gonna beat Bill Clinton on the stage...though Hillary came awfully close. The two of them are seasoned pros and the best we have espousing core Democratic values. Great stuff.
Re McCain treatment, I dont agree. I know the GOP was vile toward Kerry's record, but McCain personally defended Kerry and he deserves to be rewarded for that. He also should be respected for his contribution to our country - as any other veteran should barring any war crimes. In the end, it doesnt matter, because he isnt the right guy and he isnt from the right party. In short, what Bill said.
Felt like old times listening to Bill speak. I love the Democrats and love being a member of the party. Forget that one little fact, sometimes.
I hope they eventually pull up some of the ads the Repubs ran in 2000 against McCain. Bush and Rove really did a number on him back then and he has been cowed by them ever since. We should remind everyone one what they did to that "good and honorable soldier". He was treated as shoddily as Kerry was in 2004. That is how they support the troops, I guess.
The DNC is as sugar-coated phony crap as the idiots who are making the speeches, all lock-step Republicans with the Fascists in Power. It's phony and as disgusting as the fact that Karl Rove ISN'T IN PRISON, but he's a FOX TV news analysist. What fuckin' kind of country is this I ask you?
Mind-numbing, depressing Bill and his Swill Clinton wife, Holy God!
We do have the government we deserve.
Posted by Al Tzeimers at August 28, 2008 08:30 AMDianne - I think it is better to just take the wind out of his sails by saying- "yes, thank you, John" - and then move on. Making a big deal out of it just gives more air time to something pretty irrelevant.
I agree with you on the pride thing - I feel very happy when I hear the Clintons - like someobdy smart is still around, thank goodness. Good thing Obama dropped by last night or we might all have forgotten him and thought Michelle was running.
Posted by the young Judith (tyj) at August 28, 2008 08:35 AMI was just talking to a co-worker who voted for Bush out of fear, but is now leaning toward Obama. She's been watching the DNC and has been fairly impressed so far. She said that even though she knows that Biden is there to pump up nat'l security, he scared her worse with all the tough talk about Russia. I must say, I was cringing, too.
I guess it just doesn't bother me as much when they all say McCain's a friend since it's all part of the tone of no character attacks, just judgment attacks. And though we all know the 'pukes will make shit up if they don't have facts to pound on, at least they have no video clips of anyone impugning McCain's military record as the GOP did with Kerry. We'll see whether it works, but at least it's consistent.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 28, 2008 08:35 AMhe scared her worse with all the tough talk about Russia. I must say, I was cringing, too.
Me too! Are we completely ignoring the fact that Georgia started this shit and Russia was responding to thier hostile acts?
He is a fighter, that is for sure.
Yep. He sure cracked some skulls with Operation Pipe Dreams.
Give McCain his due for spending 5+ years as a POW. There's no reason not to.
Yes, but do it once and do it quickly. It's done now. Thank you for your service, John, now suck it before we start digging into what really happened over there.
I'm sorry, but the men who were tortured to death without giving away a thing are the war heroes.
No more ticker-tape for Songbird.
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 28, 2008 08:54 AMAre we completely ignoring the fact that Georgia started this shit and Russia was responding to thier hostile acts?
You know, I believe so. I don't pretend to understand what's really going on, but it seemed to me like a narrative has been set that isn't quite true.
I'm sorry, but the men who were tortured to death without giving away a thing are the war heroes.
That's what the non-affiliated folks are for. It's gotta be done carefully, though, because those kinds of attacks go against the narrative the campaign is trying to maintain.
I know how you feel about Biden and the drug war, but wasn't he instrumental in keeping Bork off the SCOTUS, too? Take the bad with the good, I guess.
Posted by iamcoyote at August 28, 2008 09:19 AM"keeping Bork off the SCOTUS, too." And messing up the Thomas hearings that got Thomas on the bench.
Re: Russia/Georgia
You know, I believe so. I don't pretend to understand what's really going on, but it seemed to me like a narrative has been set that isn't quite true.
Interestingly, the media seems to be doing a pretty good job here. WaPo had a timeline of what happened as well as a history of what had been going on before. The News Hour had some history also, and talked about tensions on both sides. I've heard from the MSM that the "break-away" regions fear and distrust Georgia. It's the White House that came out with Georgia--good, Russia--bad end of story. The administration (and Biden, unfortunately) have posed this in black and white terms when there's a whole lotta gray, but the media isn't just repeating it.
Posted by CG at August 28, 2008 09:38 AMDo YOU object to having shitbrain Thomas on the Court, peter McGoat? I'll guess not.
Just more intellectual dishonesty from the local Tex-ass Repud coffee spill wiper. What a worthless putz.
Posted by euzoius at August 28, 2008 09:39 AMI'm sorry, but the men who were tortured to death without giving away a thing are the war heroes.
These men were not tortured. And we need to drive home the meme that the things done to those men were redefined by Gigolo John McCain as not being torture. They were safe interrogation methods as delineated and practiced by Buschco and Ace McCain.
Posted by phidipides at August 28, 2008 09:42 AMDems have to "speak militarist" to the cretinous public on Russia/Georgia.
I can assure you that the neocons will be working this "crisis" ("The Return of Russia!") as THE major foreign policy issue facing BushAmerica, now that Iraq has been completely and utterly forgotten (all that's left is the $12 billion/month in cost, but who cares, right?) Cue the theme music to the "Evil Empire Allies with Islamofacism Terror", right, pooter McGoat?
It's quite amazing (and very suspicious) that the Russia/Georgia issue flared up at this time, exactly when the neocons needed another "enemy" for the boobs to quake over (as though the expansion of NATO to Russia's doorstep is really the crucial issue facing the US or world for that matter). But Georgia allows to GoOP to keep the corporate press talking about American "power", not its incredible fiscal weakness. And of course Dems must play along or be excoriated.
For Dems to be completely dependent on the Repub enemy for what YOUR campaign agenda will be is quite appalling, but there we are.
Posted by euzoius at August 28, 2008 09:51 AMMcCain Adviser: Emergency Room Just as Good as Health Insurance
I tried that once... them creditors can get real nasty!
It's quite amazing (and very suspicious) that the Russia/Georgia issue flared up at this time, exactly when the neocons needed another "enemy" for the boobs to quake over (as though the expansion of NATO to Russia's doorstep is really the crucial issue facing the US or world for that matter).
Suspicious indeed... 'turdblossom' makes a visit to the Balkans in early July... Georgia has a major pipeline in the region... all hell breaks loose a month later... bu$h administration gets out played by Putin! Yep, another neo-con disaster in the works if you ask me!
Posted by Seven of Six at August 28, 2008 10:30 AMI wonder what the Gallop tracking poll shows today?
Posted by snark at August 28, 2008 11:24 AM"keeping Bork off the SCOTUS, too." And messing up the Thomas hearings that got Thomas on the bench.
I gotta admit, peter's right. Allowing Thomas on the bench was another major fuck up. So was Pipe Dreams. So was his war on MDMA and raves.
Biden also voted for the PATRIOT ACT, then railed against it, and then voted to extend it anyway.
I'll give him the Violence Against Women Act, of course. Good with the bad.
I still may have to support this ticket because the other one is so gawd awful, but I'm not gonna do it quietly.
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 28, 2008 11:43 AM...but I'm not gonna do it quietly.
Amen!
Posted by snark at August 28, 2008 11:51 AMEuz, I don't object, but I knew you would. Biden's mishandling of those hearings got him there with a 52 to 48 vote.
Posted by peter at August 28, 2008 01:04 PMWas that a church "Amen"?
No, more like a secular "Fuckin' A!"
Posted by MaskedVigilante at August 28, 2008 01:26 PM"Virtually all advanced countries have universal health care systems but we don't think that should be limited to high-income countries," he added.
Wonder if this WHO report will finally dim the "we got the best health care in the world" bots-talk.
Posted by at August 28, 2008 05:45 PM