God, Kerry has finally found his voice. "McCain has gone from maverick to irratic." (On his choice of Palin)

that presumes that mccain once really was a maverick...

What creases me in the whole evolution (cough) is the everyday mainstreaming of creationism: her theology is always expressed as an opposition to abortion, but nothing is said of her outrageous rejection of Darwin.

Forcing that issue has had a devastating effect on the intellectual integrity of American education. Every time I hear one of the these quack rockheads I'm embarrassed as an American. Oh, creationism is just some religious tenet.

It's not, it's been part of a huge part of a battle against our schools and our teachers. These quacks would all have us walking arounf as total fucking idiots, not only in science, but anything that requires a brain.

I just don't see this working. Americans have been exposed to the horrors of deliberate dunceheads, The Stupid is not popular, no it's not, no he's not either, and this shit will be rejected.

and WRECKLESS. well im just happy politics is interesting again, not to mention
sarah got a gun lol

i agree with what has been said regarding her ideology...but i will give her this...she walks the walk...people respect that..and the fact of the matter is ..she is more qualified to be president..experience wise..then obama..and she isn't the top of the ticket

The post Palin polls show Obama 49/41 against the McCain ticket. McCain finally found a way to pull away from even with Obama. Wrong way, John.

I think Sarah needs to remember the admonitions of her Fundamentalist/Evangelical faith:

Ephesians 5:23 "the man is the head of the woman, just as Christ also is the head of the church. . . . [J]ust as the church is subject to Christ, so must women be to their husbands in everything."

I Timothy 2:11-15: "Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. . . . Yet woman will be saved through bearing children. . . ."

Saint Thomas Aquinas: "Good order would have been wanting in the human family if some were not governed by others wiser than themselves. So by such a kind of subjection woman is naturally subject to man, because in men the discretion of reason predominates."

So, get home and get pregnant, Sarah. Your god demands it. And no Fundamentalist/Evangelical man worth his strict and unerring biblical interpretation will be able to vote for you. Your god is demanding, jealous, and will squash you like a bug in all his great love. And he doesn't want you stepping out of your place of subservience to men. Sorry. It's only god's word. So have Todd slap some pipe to you so you can do the one thing god expects of you: Be a baby factory then die. It's god's will.

an honest extremist is a good thing, dennis? and i'm not sure what you consider a qualification for the presidency.

phid,

gallup has the same number, two days in a row. no palin impact, as of yet. ras has the margin at 3. not good, considering that obama just had his convention. this is going to be tight, which is why it's important to emphasize the mccain-palin extremism.

dennis, You do realize she has absolutely zero experience on National matters.

Give that to Obama at least.

Family Values? Doesn't the Family Value group believe that a mother should stay at home with her children (all five of them)? Evidently the Mrs. Family Value Palin has decided to let someone else tend to her children, while she takes on a job that is not a 9 to 5 position. This leads me to believe that the Family Value group makes exceptions when it's one of their own.

...and the fact of the matter is ..she is more qualified to be president..experience wise...

No shit. She'll likely wipe Obama in the swimsuit competition.

...ras has the margin at 3.

At 4 today, and lowest spread of all the polls.

I still think that it would be easier to attack McSame's judgement here. I mean this woman is a relatively unknown and very obscure on the national scene. How many of you who are somewhat politically aware even knew or heard of her before? She is so unknown that even McSame had only met her once before and then talked with her only once on the phone. Comeon on...that's the extent of the job interview here...one meeting ...jeebus even in my lowly job position my job interviews were more far more extensive with the person hiring and involved several rounds with the boss and other multiple people. Yup to me it shows risky judgement by McSame...and a gamble...and we can't we really afford take anymore snap judgements and risky decisions....that's what the last 8 years have been. I'm not questioning her experience...I'm questioning his risky judgement.

Wait dennis, I know, you believe Cindy McLame:

You know, the experience that she comes from is what she’s done in government, and remember, Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia. It’s not as if she doesn’t understand what’s at stake here.

Ahem, Zogby has it at McCain plus two. Rasmussen today has it at 3 folks. the internals indicate even more:

"There have been significant changes in perception of John McCain in the two days of polling since he named Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate. Since then, 49% of Republicans voice a Very Favorable opinion of McCain. That’s up six percentage points from 43% just before the announcement. Also, 64% of unaffiliated voters now give positive reviews to McCain, up ten points since naming his running mate."

Seems this weeks DNC hardly had any effect. By selecting Palin, he all but staggered that great Obama event Thursday night. That's experience working for ya.

Wow Phid, quoting the bible over here! Yet only incomplete passages, shame. Anyhow, probably shocked some here. Preaching headships to feminist usually has quite negative results. Thomas Aquinas is a good one, Albertus Magnus is the better guy to quote, he taught Thomas, he was also a scientist. Definitely the better character to look into.

"Having kids and serving as governor are entirely compatible," she said.

“To any critics who say a woman can’t think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I’d just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave,” Palin said.

I think you haven't seen how popular Governor Rell is in Conn.

So you're a barefoot and pregnant person now...

peter,

zogby? really? what was his methodology this time- dice? ouija board? tea leaves?

It just gets worse and worse ...

Today McCain, on Fox Noise Sunday, called Palin a "partner and a soulmate".

No really. As Dave Barry would say, I am not making this up.

Meanwhile, the Sunday op-eds, both on the right on the left, are reacting negatively to the pick. The main theme is judgment -- that is, McCain's lack thereof.

On that point, the McCain camp is claiming that Palin was not a surprise pick, but was vetted intently for months. Yet, Alaskan reporters haven't been able to find a single person in Alaska who the McCain camp interviewed about her. Several Alaskan Republicans have expressed surprise that they weren't contacted. Not unexpectedc that the McCain camp lies on this -- frankly at this point it's clear they are as pathological as Hannity and O'Reilly.

The troopergate scandal is worse -- the fired Director now has emails showing that he was pressured by Palin herself, something she denied on TV several times. Furthermore, he claims that a) the investigation into the trooper (in response to Palin charges made before she was Governor) did find problems, he was disciplined, the matter was closed, and per policy it could not be reopened, and b) that she had to stop putting political pressure on because if the trooper did something else wrong, any disciplinary action would look like the result of a political hit job.

Note that the trooper is still on the job.

She also fired a police chief and library director in 1997 in Wasilla because they didn't support her in the 1996 election. A mayoral recall effort was drafted but abandoned.

As for the gender appeal? Talked to a woman who is very involved in the local feminist culture. At first she and her friends were happy that a woman had been nominated. However, upon hearing her positions on social issues they quickly lost all interest. But the kicker was this -- when they found out how anti-environment she is (they are all very big on environmental issues) that was the killer. They have started an active grassroots campaign to get the word out about her anti-environmental actions and policies. Shooting wolf cubs from the air so that they will have more elks and moose for the hunters to kill. That sounds like change we can believe in.

peter -- like any troll, you grasp at any data that supports your cause. Zogby interactive had the worst track record during the primaries.

However, I really hope that the polls don't show a massive rejection of the Palin pick -- at least not for a week. My biggest fear now is that McCain replaces her before the RNC.

Honestly, I don't think even GWB's decision making was this bad.

McCain -- WORSE than Bush

Maybe it's a dart board, who knows? What about the Rasmussen internals? That's where you must pay attention. I'm waiting to see what Gallup says later on. Next, I'm waiting to see polling data from states west of the Mississippi. You know states such as Colorado, Montana, Oregon, Minnesota, the Dakotas, maybe even Missouri. Obama thought he had a chance in Alaska, now that's taken away. I'm also curious about the NE states like Vermont, Maine, and NH, and on the outside Mass. I want to see how the people of those states I've mentioned above react to the new ticket. Then we'll talk.

I thought it was bad the first day or two, but here we are on day three and the darts sent to Palin are not working. As the mud slingers fail, the dig deeper into the muck and start coming across like the Taliban when they discuss Sarah and her family.

As the mud slingers fail, the dig deeper into the muck and start coming across like the Taliban when they discuss Sarah and her family.

FOX News: Polls: Voters Doubt Palin’s Qualifications While Obama Expands Lead

Damn mudslingers.

Hey, how you like McCain traveling to the coast with his "soulmate" and sucking up limited resources for a photo op? Seems a few redstates will turn blue on this stupidity alone.

"peter -- like any troll, you grasp at any data that supports your cause."

This isn't "like any troll", it is like anybody. Anybody will grasp at any data that supports the cause. Phid above was also.

What an epiphany we're seeing now folks. Quoting the Bible, Fox, and Newsmax, even the CSM and The Nation on left leaning blogs. Amazing, trulty amazing!

I wouldn't underestimate her. If she comes across as intelligent and warm, she'll really help McCain regardless of how extreme she is or that she doesn't believe in science. It sounds to me like she not only has no experience on national or international issues (most governors lack that experience), she has lacked interest in what's going on. If that shows in her appearances and the debate, it'll be good for the dems. But if she's a quick study and can get all this stuff straight, she'll look great. Her ideology is scary, but she will appeal to people. I think Obama needs to go after her lack of interest on issues, as shown from interviews in the past couple of years that have been posted in comments here.

I don't think the experience factor is huge because it's very unlikely that she'd have to step in a president right away. And frankly, McCain is so bad on foreign policy, she might actually be better.

I wonder if KKK Rover signed off on the Palin Pick or if it was Goofball McDoof actin' on his own. Hope Palin has the Rover imprimatur. She must.

I'm glad to see that the nation's conservative extremists like the pick, that should help Miss Alaska hang on.

A fundamentalist extremist nutjob as his VP pick, after the fundies and Bush smeared and humiliated McRage in 2000, too funny. He will literally do anything to be Codpiece in Chief---God, McWar must be planning some military "adventures" and civilian killing for Our Heroes! Go GOoPers!

Our nation is now a riotous low comedy of fart jokes, with the earth in the balance. Yes, things can indeed get worse. Go GOoP!

pants pissing peewee is crossing his eyes, fingers and legs hoping the erratic maverick has made a good choice....this race is done with this mutt on the ticket...a doddering old man and a woman who hates women...does it get any better?

The Palin choice by McCain shows just how brilliant he is.
He stole the convention speech press from Obama the very next day.
He chose someone who is a Washington outsider which will help him with the independents
He chose a woman which will give pissed off Hillary voters somewhere to go
He chose a pro lifer which has solidified the base

A smart choice from a smart man. Just the kind of thinking we need in the White House. One that looks at all options and makes the wise choice.
McCain has shown that he will make a great president with this important move.

Quoting the Bible, Fox, and Newsmax, even the CSM and The Nation on left leaning blogs.

Sure! Sarah has these Neanderthal beliefs and hangs with republi-cons. It is our duty to remind her of what her faith demands of her. And who are we to disagree with republi-cons who hate her, or polls that show independents running from the republi-cons in droves?

It is tough being you! You got a "surprise" MILF VP pick chosen by a guy showing early stage dementia who calls her his "soulmate". Damn, it has got to be tough for you to polish the jackboots and don your brownshirt for this one. I suggest you do what the others are doing. State the things that don't qualify her as VP, then say "She was a beauty pageant winner!" If you also state "She was Miss Congeniality" you'll scare the fuck out of the terrorists. They'll respect Miss Congeniality as no lightweight! I promise!

There is also the fact that her husband is a Union member which will show that she is tolerant of positons held by some Dems.

Dems in Ohio and Penn. will be able to see her choice as a reason they can abandon the elitist Obama (which is what the really want to do) and support McCain/Palin.

Brilliant move.

i will take a honest extremist over a disengenuous panderer any day..i don't have to vote for either...my point was that she walks the walk..and in a lot of places in this land ..that is respected..perhaps not in acadamia land...as far as her being an extremist..why? creationism?..she believes it should be taught along side..i can live with that idea...abortion rights?...mccain made a shrewd move..will it pay..we'll see..i do know this race is gonna be a lot closer then it has any right to be..and it just may be that obama not asking hillary will prove to be his downfall

"Soulmate" Sarah---it literally must have been love at first sight for McGOoP! Thank God for that National Guv'Mayors Convention, or the GOoPs would have that mega-phoney Romney!

And then Mc72 had that (lone) phone call with the beautious Sarah that set his little conservative willy all a-quiverin'....Just like high school!

Anchors Aweigh on the McFool Express! He's a genius, just ask mancrap00!

So Phidipides, you want to fuck a mother?
Is it that ugly Oeidipal complex rearing it's head again? (pun intended)

Of course McCain knew this would not sway a single left wing nut vote such as the ones here and at Kos. This pick WILL help with the sane people that will decide this election. It gives Bill Clintons "soccer moms" someone they can relate to as well as the nascar crowd.

There would be no pick McCain could have made to make a difference for those on the far left. It would have taken the dementia you wish he had to pick someone you would have approved of. Like Fidel Castro. The more you hate her, the better the evidence of how brilliant his choice was.

McCain/Palin 08

dennis, sad to see that you've officially jumped the shark---ah well.

Brilliant move.

Exactly. She is preganant in Texas, her water breaks, and she takes a commercial flight home. She has a premature Down's baby on Friday and returns to work Monday taking the premature baby with her. Now THAT is rational decision making!

McCain 08: "I've Got Dementia -AND- A MILF!"

mannapp you got to put the pipe down this early in the day...here's a snippet on your 'taking Hillary votes meme': If McCain chose her expressly to snatch up the PUMA vote, it could present an ugly weld spot within a party grounded in 16 years of institutional Clinton hatred.

...not to mention that Hillary will snuff the whole idea of miss baked alaska taking the disaffected (that didn't appear at the dem convention) vote.

By Novemeber, miss codpiece waanabe will be a shredded hockey mom under a moose head...should be fun!!

"shredded hockey mom under a moosehead" LOL

Sounds like Sarah will be playing Bottom the weaver in A Midsummer Night's Dream, goyo!

"McDoof's Midsummer Night's Dream" by KKK Rover McBard....I'll bet on Oberon, Puck and Titania every time! Go GOoP!!

"If McCain chose her expressly to snatch up the PUMA vote, it could present an ugly weld spot within a party grounded in 16 years of institutional Clinton hatred."

Problem with this logic is that the Clinton haters are already on board with McCain due to the VP pick. Brilliant. The PUMA voters will not suddenly vote for Barry O because of the pick so nothing changes there. Brilliant. The Clinton haters do not give a flying fuck about the PUMAs one way or the other anymore as Clinton is not on the ticket. This pick will not cost him a single vote but will help him steal those that already were unsure about one partial term senator Obama.

This pick shows the confidence McCain has as opposed to Obama picking a "safe" choice with an older experienced guy to give him gravitas.
I suppose he saw that Cheney was already taken and so had to settle for the next most experienced old white dude.

"McCain 08: "I've Got Dementia -AND- A MILF!"

better than

Obama 08: "I have no experience plus an old ugly white dude with hair plugs."

I mean there is viagra for McCain. There are no experience pills for Obama.

Obama 08: "Vote for me, I once ran a community center in Chicago"

there are those who walk the walk..there are those who talk the talk....plenty of the latter here

There are no experience pills for Obama.

Exactly. I doubt he would be Miss Congeniality or ever learned how to walk a runway in high heels. The Taliban and Putin respect stiletto heels. You can bank on it.

there are those who walk the walk..there are those who talk the talk....plenty of the latter here

...and there are those who make sense...just not you

Dennis

"you don't walk the walk" when you take the rights away from some when it suits you and deny it to others when it doesn't.
You can't say your "not paying atttention to a war" that is unjust and uncivilized when the life of innocents are being destroyed. What walk is she walking? she reaps the benefits of all the women who fought for equal rights for women, over their own bodies as well as their rights to equality in the workplace> Think she could have run for Gov. of Alaska before the womens rights movement?? don't start with me! I'm an old lady who was and continues to be part of that fight. Sarah Palin is what she is but she is not for rights for women Dennis, thats why you like her. I have seen the likes of you before, I don't call it Dennis, I call it the Republican Party who contiunes to fool the Rubes.

"Sarah Palin is what she is but she is not for rights for women"

Why do you say this? Just because she disagrees with your position on the killing of the unborn?

Can't a woman disagree with another woman on an issue and still be for womens rights?

Who sets the bar on being for or against anyone's rights, you? Has she come out against a womans right to vote or hold a job or be paid equal to a man? Has she not shown by her running for high office and winning that she is for equal rights? She beat a man out of the office of Governor of Alaska to become the first female governor of that state. What have you done for womens rights that tops that. Gone to a few rallies?

This is typical lefty arrogance, if you don't agree with me you must be wrong.

Please say that theory to all the Hillary supporters particularly saying all the abortion issues she's in favour of.

Hey Phid you have that Charles Krauthammer guy on your side now. Imagine that, Phid and Krauthammer agreeing on Sarah Palin. Imagine that, many here at the TLC agreeing with Krauthammer.

""Soulmate" Sarah---it literally must have been love at first sight for McGOoP!" Yeah she was seven/eight months pregnant. Couldn't be the looks, had to be the spirit/mind of the woman.

Gallup is out now, The eight point advantage has shrunk to six. Not much to crow about coming out of the convention. Still it's something, we'll have to see where it is a week from now, then into September.

The favorite arguments from the wingers seem to center on some of the following angles:

She has executive level experience that Obama doesn't have.

Well, by the "executive-level experience yardstick" used by the GOP, that makes her more qualified than their own presidential nominee, who also has none.

Her story will appeal to women.

Really? Please show me how her views on the issues appeal to soccer moms, and how her record does as well. Please show me her executive-level decisions these last two years on family leave, health care, security, equal pay, and most of all education that would appeal to suburban soccer moms.

Her husband is a union member, so she is supportive of them.

Really? Please show me her pro-union legislative agenda and accomplishments as governor these last two years.

As an governor, she's made executive-level decisions in running a state, from outside Washington.

Really? With a state that is awash in oil taxes, can you point me to any evidence that she has made tough budget choices or cuts in the last two years that show her values, judgment, and ability to weigh competing challenges? And can you show me a single national security issue she has handled to the level of complexity and scope that any other GOP governor has, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, Rick Parry, or even Jodi Rell? Can you point to one immigration-related issue she has dealt with as a governor to the degree of complexity of those facing other GOP governors?

She likes everyone.

Swell. How many African Americans and Hispanics are there in Alaska, or single working moms for that matter compared to other states, and what in her two-year record shows us a legislative agenda and record of accomplishment that demonstrates exposure to the challenges faced by ALL Americans?

When someone can show me that she was the best GOP governor available ready to step in as commander in chief and leader of this country, then and only then does the GOP have a valid debating point against an Obama/Biden ticket. Until then, she was and is simply a pick made by others dictated to McCain to appease the fundamentalists, for a women he didn't even know well if at all until the morning the pick was made, thereby in one stroke demolishing both the "maverick" and "experience" talking points underpinning the GOP candidacy this year.

Hey Phid, you're going to have to change your reference to "VPILF" soon.

Well Steve, By your logic of "she is more experienced than McCain" perhaps she should have been on top of the ticket. All the rest doesn't matter as she is not on top of the ticket. +
Face it. The guy the Dems chose for Pres not only has less experience than the guy the GOP chose for the top, but less experience than the GOP VEEP choice as well. Any way you slice it the Dems lose on the experience issue.

MANAPP

Where did I mention "the killing of the unborn"???
Anti women types like you latch onto that phrase, I find it a locked on my personal body parts phrase. You like discussing a womens body it places her in the demeaning positon you prefer.
I did mention the unjust war, I did mention the killing of innocents (not the ones you want to talk about the ones I want to discuss)the american soldiers who died for GWB and the republican Partys lies, the innocent women and children of Iraq.I mentioned the benefits she received from the womens movement allowing her to run for gov. of Alaska and be the first EVHA women to be nominated by the republican party.
So what is your point actually, thou shall not kill, anybody even those already born.
If you have a point make it so far you are batting zero. She is against equal pay for women, she is against health care for children (those that are born already) heck even those with Downs Syndrome. She does not believe in Science and wants to teach Creationisum in Public Schools, she does not believe in Global Warming. Great the United States can stop producing Scientists and Engineers, SHEESH KEEP TALKING THE UNBORN.

Y'know, judging by the reaction I think that McCain might have made serious inroads into the Obama support if he'd chosen Christine Whitman. Socially liberal, moderately conservative on economic issues, very solid experience. She'd have to explain away her EPA actions -- she was actually a capable administrator but like so many of Bush's early appointees her reputation took major damage when she toed the Bush/Cheney line on a few key issues, notably the WTC environmental issues. However, the fact that she resigned rather than continuing to carry water for Bush (unlike, say, Powell) says a lot for her. She'd certainly get a long look from Hillary supporters.

Oh, but wait, then the Bush-loving base would object because she's pro-choice. Nevermind.

Or, perhaps she was just too smart to accept VP consideration. Frankly, she'd be a welcome crossover to the Democrats, and given the country's direction that might be a good career move for her.

Well, better luck in 2012. If McCain does serve just one term, maybe it'll be Palin vs. Hillary in 2012.

Well, better luck in 2012. If McCain does serve just one term, maybe it'll be Palin vs. Hillary in 2012.

I hope someone is archiving these predictions.

rm forsyth I was responding to your quote:

"Sarah Palin is what she is but she is not for rights for women"

The points you bring about unjust war and the other blather has nothing to do with womens rights. I contend that she has done for womens rights by being elected as the first female governor of Alaska than you are giving her credit for.

If it is not her pro life stance that makes you make this statement then you are left with your assertion that she is against equal pay for women. The rest of your issues do not have anything to do with womens rights.

Health care for children, the teaching of creationism and not falling for the hype that is global warming are NOT womens issues.

Have you talked to her about her stance on "equal pay for women"? (the only womans issues we are now down to). Perhaps like many she is completely for equal pay for equal work but against the government LEGISLATING equal pay. This is quite a different issue.

You start your rant with this typical liberal tripe:

"Anti women types like you latch onto that phrase, I find it a locked on my personal body parts phrase. You like discussing a womens body it places her in the demeaning positon you prefer."

I am not anti women and your are being small minded to attempt to label me as such. Where in my discussion did I say or allude to anything having to do with your "personal body parts"? If one is agains abortion they are not talking about your body parts, they are referring to the body parts of the life inside you. The babies life not yours.

Don't make it all about you. You made an acusation you cannot back up and I called you on it.

Perhaps as a woman you could see the great accomplishments your sister has made in your behalf. She has a chance to shatter the glass ceiling but she needs your support.

Or just go ahead and vote for the man's ticket again.
Can you only accept a woman if she falls into lockstep with your positions and thinks, talks and looks like you? Why don't you give her a chance, there will be plenty of time to get to know her. Try going into it with an open mind.

mancrapp00, do you honestly think a conservative while male turd like you can sell that horseshit malarkey ("the life inside you!") to actual thinking American women?

God, what a gaseous shiteater. Conservative White Male Syndrome claims another victim, all cases self inflicted.

The "archives" will show, and I have no doubts,absolutely none, that the race was decided with Mr Obama's trip overseas. The Vice Presidential choice will be inconsequential for both campaigns.

Please archive.

"Please archive."

Please do. The record will show that when Obama failed to name Hillary veep and McCain countered with the Palin nomination. The race was over and Obama lost.

Pundits will go on about this for years after this historic election.

MANAPP

Please post where she is for womens issues> I have spent considerable time reviewing her record. It is appalling. Attaching herself to McSame attaches her to the Rebublican platform where she is running for VP. The unborn is your only issue and you are not capable of seeing womens issues beyond that. Not the war, not health care for children, not school science, education. Not equal pay for women,not the enviornment, not global warming, I could go on and on but you can't hear or see, only "the unborn" that you won't take care of once they are born.
As a bonus we get Big Oil. first dude works for them

"BigOil---first dude works for them"

Funny how this stuff seems to happen with Repubs, isn't it?

No wonder the PUMA crowd is so thrilled with Palin....

Good wrap up Steve....the best response is unqualified silence...this woman is a light weight....abortion, gay marriage and stem cell aren't issues...it's the economy stupid...say nothing and watch miss pay-slip swing in the breeze...

"The unborn is your only issue"

Wrong again. Abortion is not even a "very important" issue to me. I just think you ought to look at if for what it is, killing innocent unborn kids. Don't get me wrong, I am not against killing kids I just wish it was more of the noisy little fuckers at the resturant and the crying shitting ones on the plane is all. Or perhaps the teenagers that grow up to be a blight on social order. I am much more a less government is better goverment and government should take care of security and stay out of social issues kind of guy.

I am clearly against the socialism issue that seems to be so important to those on the left.

I am more against Democrats than I am for Repulicans.

"the race was decided with Obama's trip overseas"

After the VP picks, "the race was over and Obama lost".

Jeebus, what idiocy. That human brains can have such a level of insane poison pumping through them and still be able to pump gas and order a Big Mac.

This will be a close election, and no one likely has won or lost it at this stage. It will be close because the MSM leans for the GOoP and because frankly they prefer close elections just as they prefer close Super Bowls.

In a responsible democracy, the failures of the Repubs would be broadcast 24/7 until the electorate had the actual facts beaten into their heads. McFool would be asked one question after another about his 90%+ support for the Bushco failure, he wouldn't be allowed to change the subject, ever. Bushco's lawbreaking and its implications for the country and constitution would be discussed weekly until the election, by actual law professors, not Charles Krauthammer and Glen Beck.

By the end of Sept, McSame and the Party That Wrecked America would be down 25 points and minor Repubs w/o security details would be afraid to appear in public. On Nov 6, they and their criminal party would be smashed into oblivion for a decade, and a huge purge of neocons and theocrats would begin so that the party could reform and renew itself into an actual American political party.

But this is NOT a responsible democracy, it's BushAmerica, so the Repubs have an excellent chance of continuing their War on the Treasury, the constitution, the muslim world and its oil, and the planet's climate.

I'd be curious what the demographics of Alaska are. How many white, black, latino, native, etc. How many wealthy, middle-class, poor. How many on food stamps, on welfare. How many democrats, republicans.... How many own guns, how many don't. How many don't have health insurance? How many are unemployed? Does she have executive experience working with and for people who are different than she is?

And with his last post, we'll leave mancrapp00 alone with his psychotherapist.....good luck, Doc! I'd advise restraints and round the clock supervised commitment!

I am more against Democrats than I am for Repulicans.
Posted by manapp99 at August 31, 2008 02:21 PM

Like we didn't figure that out....think of the American school system falling a generation behind in science if these knuckledraggers are in again...the system needs a flush and this ticket will be the turd....

Turkana,
I wish the Dems would have you and BTD giving talking points on Palin.
They are totally blowing it, IMO, focusing on her experience. Jeralyn has turned into a desperately shrill, not very effective attack dog over Palin.

Hillary has been a fantastic advocate for Obama, don't you think? She has surprised even me.

mark,

hillary has become a superb advocate for obama. as i knew she would. even her comments about palin hit exactly the right tone!

I suspected Manapp that you were off your meds. It was how bad that was in question. If there was any sanity in any of your observations I missed it.
In closing I say to you "may goodness and mercy follow you all the days of your confused life" and leave womens issues to the emmm women.

Don't waste your time with the trolls here. They just want to argue, write their 'talking points, and further the GOP lies.

CG, may surprise you, the state of Alaska is a sanctuary state. Palin has reduced taxes on the people and raised taxes on oil.

People want change, but this complex system does not change with replacing one person with another, even if these persons were intelligent which in this case are not. I really liked this article:
http://democracyandsocialism.com/Articles/TheUSelectionsandchange.html

Sarah Barracuda and John McNasty.

Their real high school nicknames.

Both are pleasant on the face, mean underneath. Both are impetuous, quick tempered, very defensive when challenged, and poor with details.

"Soulmate" is starting to make sense.

This is the election when we learn about the viability of the American system. In 2000 you could understand the American elite thinking GWB would be a fine choice because they thought Cheney -- a former chief of staff to Ford, who was a competent president -- would keep things under control. This thought is laughable in retrospect, and even at the time the results of Cheney/Rove were predictable to those of us who paid close attention. But for those who were devotees to the Republican economic cause, Cheney provided the emotional comfort they needed to put the unproven Bush in office.

In 2008 there is no excuse. McCain had 6 months to research and contemplate this decision, yet he picked a completely unvetted and unprepared VP nominee on a last minute impulse. Our first "apprentice" VP nominee -- someone who is supposed to learn international relations and macroeconomics on the job.

This confirms everything that the McCain naysayers in the military and legislatures -- from both parties -- have said about him. McCain would be dangerous in the Presidency. Worse, if he keels over he gets replaced with someone with no relevant experience, a track record of bad decisions and bad managment, and whose actions would thus be completely unpredictable . The only thing we can be sure her about is her devotion to Flat Earth social politics, which the Republican elite doesn't give a rat's ass about anyway but has used only as a carrot to keep the Republican base in line.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice party for country. The Republican leadership did that in 1974, and it cost them in the short run, but it was clearly the right thing to do. The Democrats made a similar decision in 1988, when they agreed to forgo an in-depth investigation into the Reagan corruption (of which Iran-Contra was just the beginning) in exchange for Howard Baker taking over a chief of staff and cleaning up the mess there.

Republicans are confronted with a similar decision now, in 2008. Do they stand up and, with a straight face, make claims like "Palin is completely qualified in foreign relations because Alaska is near Russia"? Or do they take the responsible position, give up the support for McCain/Palin, and focus on the House and Senate. We'll see. Anyone who does the former should be forever lose their credibility on any topic.

How quaint, turning on soccer moms and the elderly now. Is that it, a soccer/hockey mom isn't qualified to be anything but a soccer/hockey mom.

Zuza

Thank you Euz/Anonny/RF/Goyo/Phid and Judith for doing Karl Rove's job for him.

OT: early indications are that FEMA and the Jindal administration are really on the ball regarding their preparations for Gustav. Good for them and for the citizens of Louisiana -- I hope the early indications are confirmed. I'll take competent leadership over incompetent leadership any day, regardless of party.

There are also indications that the ACE (Army Corps of Engineers) was not able to fully address the levy/pump problems due to typical Bush cronyism and graft, but hopefully Gustav won't reveal those weaknesses.

There is a lot to be said for true bipartisanship, when competent, not too corrupt, not too ideological, leaders of opposite parties can cooperate for the common good. You know. How it frequently was before Gingrich became Speaker and Lott Senate Majority Leader.

peter: We're you one of those praying for rain on the Democratic convention?

No really, the Flat Earth faction of the Republican base (you know, the majority of your party), led by Dobson, had a "humorous" pray-for-rain campaign.

Now, I do recall what your Flat Earth faction said about 9/11. How it had to be God's judgment for American homosexuals or some such rubbish.

Now what is your team saying about Gustav? I mean, if you buy into that bad-events-are-God's-wrath superstition, then how are you to interpret Gustav hitting the exact site of Katrina at the exact start of the RNC?

I know that if the situation were reversed your weathly TV preachers (camel-eye-needle comes to mind here) would be saying that this was God warning against a vote for Obama. But now. What do you say? Proof that Obama is the anti-Christ, because he controls the weather?

Your party suffers from mass delusion.

“We may be seeing the first woman president. As a Democrat, I am reeling,” said Camille Paglia, the cultural critic. “That was the best political speech I have ever seen delivered by an American woman politician. Palin is as tough as nails.” Camille Paglia

No Anonny, I was just hoping for snow. Light harmless snow in August. That's all, no prayer, just look at the image of Al Gore speaking about warming with snow coming down. Quit being insulting...Flat Earth faction. Well go ahead keep it up, if it makes you feel better.

I wonder how long it takes to set up 4,000 phone lines? A telethon for Gustav relief brought to you by the RNC. Since they can't have all that fun for the party, might as well put them to work for America's good.

And I was just hoping for some snow...

"and leave womens issues to the emmm women."

I have fought for equal pay for women all my adult life and am offended by this statement.

Palin is not qualified for the office ( and neither is John Cain), and even if she was, she is a George W. Bush Republican..that's what we are voting to expel.

Palin is not qualified for the office ( and neither is John McCain), and even if she was, she is a George W. Bush Republican..that's what we are voting to expel.

She's even got T2 jittery, a double post!

The thing is, if you were going by “experience” as your guide, Dan Quayle was eminently qualified to be president according to the standards of our time, at least. He had been elected twice to the Senate and once to the House. He had drafted major domestic-policy legislation on job retraining, and was a leading light on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Quayle had served twelve years in Washington, which is what led to him accurately saying in debate that he had the same level of experience as John F. Kennedy when Kennedy was elected president (the line that set Lloyd Bentsen up to say, “Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.)

The problem with Quayle wasn’t that his resume was lousy. It wasn’t. He was, perhaps, the most politically accomplished 41 year-old in the United States at the time. It was that his behavior — first in his introductory appearance as Veep and then with the malapropisms that dogged him throughout his tenure in the White House — made him seem like a lightweight, and thereby called his judgment into question.

From: Political Animal

Video about the Palin scandal. This is going to get legs very very shortly. Sorry trolls.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_08/014476.php

Ah J, looking after the abusers now are we. That will get no legs, arms, or anything, but, keep your hopes up for wife abusers everywhere. I gave y'all a link the other day with all sorts of backup. Did you view it...probably not.

Link

Try again, make sure to view all the linkables on the page. Sorry for the "Wild Wild West" tv show look.

On a plane from Denver to Charlotte following the Democrats' convention, I found myself seated behind former National Chairman of the Democratic National Committee Don Fowler and Congressman John Spratt of South Carolina. Their conversation was interesting to say the least.

Fowler Fouls: Hurricane is God's Favor to Democrats

(CNN) — Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Don Fowler apologized Sunday for recently joking Hurricane Gustav's expected landfall on the same day as the opening of the Republican National Convention suggested God was on the Democrats' side.

OOPs Anonny

Oh no another "Cheney"

DOVER, Del. (AP) _ Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden received five student draft deferments during the Vietnam War, the same number of deferments received by Vice President Dick Cheney, and later was disqualified from service because of asthma as a teenager.

Officials with Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama's campaign released Biden's Selective Service records at the request of The Associated Press. Less detailed records were available from a National Archives facility in Philadelphia.

According to the documents, Biden, 65, received several deferments while he was an undergraduate at the University of Delaware and later as a law student at Syracuse University. A month after undergoing a physical exam in April 1968, Biden received a Selective Service classification of 1-Y, meaning he was available for service only in the event of national emergency.

Keep posting, you worthless POS. Keep demonstrating your stupidity. Keep trying to spread the gopper rove points. If you attack Palin, you hate all women who have anything in common with her, like children, or glasses, or have a job.

This pick highlights what party is the elitist one. Jocks and Cheerleaders, that's the gop of today, and of course their bootlicking wannabees, their pathetic dittobots.

Have I mentioned that I spit on you, trolls? For being lying, gutless, thieving cowards? I haven't mentioned that lately?

I spit on you trolls, for being lying, gutless, thieving cowards. For being traitors to the ideals and principles of this country. For being nasty, craven, loathsome punks.

Asked about Palin's national security experience, Cindy McCain could not come up with anything beyond the fact that, after all, her state is right next to Russia. "You know, the experience that she comes from is, what she has done in government -- and remember that Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia."

My son was watching this with me (This Week), and laughed like he thought it was the funniest thing he'd ever heard. If a 12-yr-old can see through it....

Really the GOP should be saying that governorship is a common and widely accepted stepping stone to the presidency or vice-presidency. And the dems really should stop attacking the experience angle because of that and because there are so many other problems with her. Re-emphasize the war on science and the fact that she has seemed uncurious and disinterested in national and international issues, and the fact that she wants to kill polar bears ;).

I did look into statistics on Alaska--mostly white with about 15% native and very few other ethnicities. 88% have high school degrees. Couldn't find info on welfare or health care, but it sounds like she probably hasn't had to deal with big issues of health care, education, budget shortfalls (did I understand right that she actually raised taxes on oil companies and then distributed the money to individuals? How very Obama/Clinton of her! Does the right know this about her?)

Sure do, so does McCain abd he still picked her.

Duckman, just like you did with vets returning from Vietnam. I get it.

Duckman, you left out the fact that the trolls are getting paid to disrupt this site.

TLC ...Troll Lobsided Community

Does anyone have an opinion on the following:

I expect the McCain campaign expects to dump her (and I bet she's too out of the loop to realize it.)

All they cared about was a "big splash" to get the media off Obama's "big night" and a fabulous speech.

They'll find another winger between the convention and the election.

The whole thing will lead to an announcement (made in tones of deep regret) that Palin must reluctantly step aside for the good of America, so that the focus is not on her but on the very real and serious problems facing the nation. This tribute to the good of the country having been made, McCain will name a new running mate, garner another round of exclusive media attention, and ride the resulting wave of relief and "excitement" into the White House. Crafty warrior! Palin is both Helen of Troy AND the Trojan horse. I wonder if McCain was present when the original horse was constructed.

These comments from the link I gave above.

Posted by: Winslow on August 30, 2008 at 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

Nah, that would just make his campaign look to be in even more disarray than it already is. If this is indeed the pick, it will stick. But I don't think this is a throwaway. Hell, McSame is leading in some polls. That alone is enough to make any sane person scream. The rest of the world recoils in horror as they watch us threaten to re-elect the GOP again, after all we've learned about them!

Not going to happen J. Wishful thinking by somebody who doesn't like female leadership. Wants to keep that glass ceiling.

"Now what is your team saying about Gustav? I mean, if you buy into that bad-events-are-God's-wrath superstition, then how are you to interpret Gustav hitting the exact site of Katrina at the exact start of the RNC?"

Anonny, it's obvious. God is a Democrat.

"The landscape up here is littered with people who have underestimated her," said Eric Croft, a Democratic former state representative who enlisted her help when he investigated a Republican oil commissioner for ethical breaches. "Maybe she is not ready for prime time, or maybe she is going to litter the national landscape with people who have underestimated her."

Helps a Democrat get a Republican! Oh no...

It's not hitting the very sane site, more like 150 miles west. God would be precise.

From CNN/Opinion Research Center:
Obama 49, McCain 48

First poll with both tickets complete.

Conducted Aug. 29-31, much of it over a weekend, when pollsters usually do not take surveys. Error margin: 3 points.

Well???????????

"Not going to happen J. Wishful thinking by somebody who doesn't like female leadership. Wants to keep that glass ceiling."

God Peter, you are beginning to sound insane.

How does McCain explain Palin having to leave in the middle of the campaign to answer charges of lying and using her power to 'get someone?' What if she is impeached? Should be a fun election.

"Her administration had the appearance of paying absolutely no attention to any of the rest of the unglamorous side of government," said Hawker, "whether it be dealing with human services, public services, highways, all the routine aspects."

"French faulted Palin for not helping the Legislature pass a bill to raise the benefits threshhold for children and pregnant women from 175% of the poverty level to 200%. (Most states set them at 200% to 250%.) "She said she wanted to help us raise it," French said, "but couldn't be bothered to do anything in the closing days of the Legislature, when she could have helped it through."

Well, Palin doesn't let us down. The old story, scream about aborted babies, but fuck those kids once they are born.

You will love the photo of Palin, her small daughter and the caribou. Sad.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palin31-2008aug31,0,3379120.story

I'll take competent leadership over incompetent leadership any day, regardless of party.

It better be perfect this time, especially with 1600 lost souls looking over to remind them.

Petie, Let's be clear, Stuart Shepard from "Focus on the Family" put out a video on praying for rain of "biblical proportions" the night Obama spoke.
Guess what MF? It didn't happen.

As for you and your party's convention, don't pray for another's party to be a bust... Karma MF!

peter, dennis and the rest,

I always knew a lot of the anti-Obama "Clinton supporters" here during the primaries were just lurking conservatives.

Thanks for exposing yourselves.

As for you and your party's convention, don't pray for another's party to be a bust... Karma MF!

7 of 6, or as I said, be careful what you wish or pray for. You better believe it is Karma.

manapp99,

looks pretty desperate. This will undoubtedly serve to bring McSame's own anti-choice views to light. Views that many moderates/independents don't know about or share.

midwestdem, their dribble is soooo old. They have said nothing new for at least four years. It's the same old bs. Frankly, I am very tired of it.

Gad!

I've noticed that when the republi-cons completely fuck something up the trolls start screaming and posting like whirling dervishes!

I still want any troll to explain how Palin raising taxes on corporations and exporting jobs on the oil pipeline thing she screwed-up fits in with core con-servative values?

I'll give her the abuse of power felony she is going to get. You can't be a real republi-con without a felony or two under your belt.

That all ya got, puke?

SOS, I dunno, some of them here are too stupid to get paid.

Peter and the rest of the trolls still, hours later, haven't been able to answer a single one of my points about Palin, yet can only wage empty attacks against the Dems. A sure sign you got squat, kids.

See you in November.

As an governor, she's made executive-level decisions in running a state, from outside Washington.

Really? With a state that is awash in oil taxes, can you point me to any evidence that she has made tough budget choices or cuts in the last two years that show her values, judgment, and ability to weigh competing challenges? And can you show me a single national security issue she has handled to the level of complexity and scope that any other GOP governor has, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, Rick Parry, or even Jodi Rell? Can you point to one immigration-related issue she has dealt with as a governor to the degree of complexity of those facing other GOP governors?

That is the meat of it, Steve. What experience does she have trying to fill a $15 billion budget hole, with a legislature that is gridlocked by obstructionist gopper thugs.

Actually, I can guess how she would respond. First she'd try to cut anything remotely smelling of social welfare, i.e. humanity and compassion, 2nd, when the slashees put up a fight she would smear and threaten them and question their integrity. Then, when that didn't produce results, she'd try to cut taxes, when that didn't fly, she'd bail out and go on a fundraising junket somewhere, which would include killing living creatures for sport. GOP thru and thru.

the palin choice is a gamble for mccain..he bet it all on black..we'll know in november whether it pays off...i do know that the naive childlike metality of obama supporters continues to be an obstacle to be over come..many of you couldn't see a train coming til it hit you in the face..dems should have had the mantle after there convention...18,000,000 million people out ther voted for hillary..they don't have those people..and it's their fault...this election will be won in the hearts and minds of hard working people in ohio pennsylvania and fl...i believe the palin choice was brilliant...john mccain will not be getting my vote..he will however be getting a lot of others...and they won't be deciding they're future on things such as whether creationisn should be taught..or the #2's view on abortion..as much as the infected minds of obama supporters would have you believe...

Hey dennis, (and others who this may pertain to)

Glad to see you around these parts again.

I'm sorry to hear what you plan on doing with your vote, but it is your vote and you are entitled to do with it as you deem appropriate... I fully understand exactly about your feelings toward Obama supporters and how nasty/disgusting things went down and still appear to be going from many. I too often just wish they would stop dictating and badgering/name calling to those they didn't/don't see eye to eye with. Gracious in victory seems to have escaped them and telling people they're not needed, they're repukes, they're racists...etc, etc... isn't the way to win people over to their cause. If only many could understand the ability to listen to former Hillary supporters concerns and then reach out to them instead of telling them to go away or name call. All I'll say is that I could never see how anyone could vote for mcWorsethanBush, and I hope you'll reconsider your vote. There's still plenty of time for you to do that....and maybe people asking you do so instead of demanding it and calling you names might help? Honestly I get your feelings...I have some of them myself...but I've come to the realization of a few things. I still have many misgivings about the Obama/Biden ticket and still am disgusted by many Obama supporters behavior. However, I believe that I will be able to muster the courage to hold my nose and vote for the ticket (and that could still change because earlier I had planned to sit it out)....I ask you to think about the potential of 4 more wars...and tax cuts for the wealthy continuing to raid our coffers and jeopardize future generations. I don't think that will happen with an Obama administration. I haven't nor will I forget what happened and voting in this manner still doesn't excuse many of his actions or those of his supporters. I get that...and I will continue to hold his feet to the fire and be the first to criticize and call him/them out when they are acting like arrogant idjits or are wrong.

Good luck with your decision, I hope you continue to come here. You've been here a long time and are a valued voice (at least as far as I'm concerned) here. I hope you reconsider voting for McCain. I hope we can continue to have a calm conversation about this if you should so desire.

Good luck and hope you stick around.

Dennis, I feel much the same as Emal. I would hate for you to stop posting and being a part of the TLC community.

Part of the problem I suspect, is that Obama has attracted new and young voters. The newbies are young, and are not seasoned in the way of politics. They will learn.

...john mccain will not be getting my vote..he will however be getting a lot of others...

emal, dennis isn't going to vote for McWorsethanbu$h. Which I welcome as an Obama supporter.

My argument with dennis was when he tried to say Palin was more experienced than Obama. She has absolutely zero experience on National issues. Her state's population is 700K, less than many major American cities, hell, some zip codees for that matter.

He still harbors old resentments, a lot of people are. Even some who knew that republi-cons messed with the Democratic Party's process in FL and MI, yet, still continue to blame Obama. Hey, he's an easy scapegoat and will continue to be.

In reality, they don't like Obama because:

1) He stole the election from Hillary.
2) He's not experienced enough.
3) He created the Democratic Party's problems in FL and MI, when in reality a lot of it had to do with republi-cons from each state (more so from FL).
4) He didn't really win the Primary because of the caucuses.
5) Any other reason's they can blame Obama for (bad bowler, big ears, too skinny, eats arugala, called people bitter, etc...).

Obama's the Democratic nominee now, anyone wishing to vote differently can do so...

emal

i apreciate your comments..but if you read mine again i said that john mccain will not be getting my vote..and as of today neither will obama....i will vote down the rest of the democratic ticket...and so will an awful lot of clinton supporters...obama is and was a mistake and so was the process...the attacks on him have not started yet..and when they do...there is plenty to work with...as far as the extreme naivte and vitriol that spews from the childlike minds of obama folk...revenge is a dish best served cold

for obama and his supporters..what is past is prologue....and as far as palins experience ..at least it is executive in nature...and she is on the bottom of the ticket...she was a smart choice...to bad a democrat didn't pick a women..it was a mistake

....and as far as palins experience ..at least it is executive in nature...

And still under investigation for abuse of power. I guess that's a prerequisite for a republi-con V/P nominee now days!

dennis and others...my bad...I just read that totally wrong....what a "duh" move on my part.

Still...dennis, I'm glad you're not voting for McWorse. I fully understand your commentary on Palin because you mention similar concerns in terms of the qualification angle with regard to Senator Obama....I get that...because it was the same concern I had before the pick...no matter what position on the ticket. That said, as we've seen sometimes experience isn't necessarily a great thing...it's what you've done with that experience that counts (hello Cheney Rumsfeld, Libby and the entire neocon cabal that came back into power running the puppet Bush. That said, I think it was also a mistake on the part of Obama to skip over Clinton....but I didn't expect her to get the nod....but the way she and her husband have been handling themselves, something (maybe is just wishful thinking) tells me that there just might be something else in store for her should Senator Obama win. And I too think that Democrats would be remiss if they dismissed Palin's impact and skills...let's not misunderestimate her. And yes it is her ideology.

Oh btw...breaking news as I type this. Apparently Palin's 17 yo daughter is pregnant and will be keeping the baby and marry the father. Not that I really care how they lead their lives and use their free choice to do as they wish...but I wonder how this will play out with the fundie base...and do wonder what this says about the vetting process (I mean he did only meet with her once or twice) sand if McWorse's campaign was even aware of this or not before hand...because although I don't care and it won't sway my opinion here...I do wonder what some of the more social conservatives and fundievangelicas feel about her daughter's lack of abstinence before marriage. I wish the daughter and her family well on this...especially because of the whirlwind and scrutiny she may face from the media and the dem politician and A-list blogger boiz better treat her respectfully too. Isn't it great that Palin's daughter has a great support system and she and her family are allowed to make a decision like this themselves.

Are you kidding emal? Every 17 year old should get pregnant then marry the father, that's pretty much the fundie response. When it's their candidate anyway.

As far as Obama's experience, besides his Senate Experience and Illinois Experience (I'm pretty sure there's more people in Chicago than in Alaska. A lot more), how about the fact that he has run a successful Presidential Campaign and captured the nomination from a heavily funded and heavily presumptive favorite in Sen. Clinton?

That tells you something about his administrative/managerial/strategic skills right there. And i know, campaigns aren't the same as running the government, but you can't do one without the other. And Palin has none of that experience.

You can't attribute the candidate with the faults of their supporters, can you? So while he may have done things that offended Hillary supporters, or Hillary herself, I don't see that it matters that much to her at this point, she sure seems to have gotten over it anyway. You don't do what she did on the floor without being a willing partner to the production.

Lok at the people who supported him early on, like Ted Kennedy, or later like Bill Richardson and Chris Dodd, and John Kerry (I think?) I don't think they want 4 more years of a Rovian Presidency, do you?

And I'll say it again, Obama isn't doing this single handed, he's going to bring all kinds of Democrats to do the jobs that all kinds of Republicans have been abdicating for the past 8 years, the same people that McCain will keep.

Dennis - I am sad to agree with you -

even if we vote for Obama it may not be enough to win. What a series of fuck ups. I will still try though. I understand why you cant but you may change your mind. The best way for that to happen is if you avoid blogs written by people who think calling women barbie dolls and MILF and small animals are actually tactics to help win. I mean it is really discouraging.

Good luck and happy trails.