I think some small changes would help Obama a lot. His main problem, IMO, is that he comes across as both arrogant and uncaring.
I don't like the line about McCain thinking that voters are stupid.. that's too close to call the voters who like McCain stupid.
He has also ridiculed Palin too severely.
Remember the "Annie Oakley" comment? He needs to stay away from snide put-downs of women.
Lastly, how about using the words "working class" instead of "middle class" every once in a while?
i agree with you, mark, in that all obama needs is some fine-tuning, to get back in control of this race. it doesn't require anything seismic. but the race should not be this close, particularly after the palin selection. this should be a rout. it won't be.
Posted by Turkana at September 9, 2008 12:28 PMThe reaction to the Palin selection was really astonishing.
Actually, I should revise my observations about put-downs: I think that some QUIETLY raised eyebrows and a few snickers would have been appropriate up her selection. What I saw instead looked more like hysteria, at least on the blogs.
Despite the fact that Obama as run such a nice campaign and hardly attacked and there haven't been 527 ads, the media still talks about how nasty the race is becoming. They only talk about it when Obama hits back of course. So he's being painted as a typical attacking politician without the benefit of actually being one. Double loser.
As for issues, he can talk about the economy until he's blue in the face, but this is about image and gut and independents are starting to buy into the maverick image from 2000 and believing that McCain will fight for them simply by Palin saying so. Obama has to hit that image (he is trying to) and make sure people know he will fight for them and work hard for them. Hillary had that image--Obama doesn't. He needs to get it.
Posted by CG at September 9, 2008 12:37 PMMaybe if we had Hillary, we wouldn't have to worry about somebody 'getting it'. Yeah, I know....the primaries are over; obama is The One, get over it.....
But character counts too, and the primaries showed me obama has none. I'll be one of those going into the voting booth voting neither for McCain nor for Obama.
Posted by benna at September 9, 2008 12:51 PMI think once we get more reasonable Repubs on our side... like Ed Koch... this will start looking a lot better for Obama. That was a biggie!
I do agree with the stupid comments though, it's a little harsh.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 9, 2008 12:53 PMLastly, how about using the words "working class" instead of "middle class" every once in a while?
Because it won't work.
"Working class" sounds to a lot of people like socialist/Marxis jargon. Not me. Not you. But to a large number of people who are members of the working class. They self-identify as middle class.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 01:19 PMQuit hyperventilating! McCain gets a post-convention bounce and you pansies are ready to break open your cyanide capsules. Criminey!
The Palin honeymoon will likely soon fade as she is exposed for the serial liar and power abuser she is, and McSame's numbers will deflate in a week or two. He and Palin won't survive the debates. Obama/Biden will dance to November victory in a landslide. You read it here first. LAND-SLIDE!
Posted by The Spoiler at September 9, 2008 01:24 PMThis election has yet to be decided, and that should not be the case.
You are overreacting.
Please look at polls from previous elections right after the candidates completed their conventions. I think you'll find that a candidate who has a statistical tie in the aggregate poll AFTER THE BOUNCE is in a heap of deep trouble.
56 days to go. The economy stinks and is getting worse, and the Republicans are the incumbents. The Democrat is widely recognized to be popular and inspiring -- in fact his opponent tried to ridicule this. The Republican has made "Change" the major issue -- playing to his opponent's biggest strength.
Obama by 4-6 points.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 01:25 PMDespite the fact that Obama as run such a nice campaign and hardly attacked and there haven't been 527 ads, the media still talks about how nasty the race is becoming. They only talk about it when Obama hits back of course. So he's being painted as a typical attacking politician without the benefit of actually being one. Double loser.
Please, stop watching the 24x7 news channels. Most Americans ignore them. Look at their ratings -- O'Reilly is the king of cable news with 2 million viewers per night -- 0.67%. Their influence is minimal.
All those people who watched the conventions? 40 million at the peak -- 13%.
This election is about the undecideds, as all elections are. All polls that have asked "who is running the dirtier campaign?" or variations of that question have shown that McCain is considered dirtier by ratios of 5:1 or so. Even part of his BASE sees his campaign as dirtier!
This fall McCain will launch the dirtiest campaign for the Presidency in the TV era. We ain't seen nothing yet. The Gambler will have to do it, as he is at his peak now.
And this is why it has been so important for Obama to stick to issues not personalities, declare families off limits, complement his opponent, and reign in the 527s. He's setting the trap for McCain.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 01:32 PMI think Obama can regain his edge in this race and the political environment may yet prove too toxic to McCain in any event, but Obama has been running a fairly weak campaign since February when he had that impressive roll through friendly primary states. He struggled from March 4 on and has never really adjusted, IMO. Significantly, his fundraising fell off after that as well. If it hadn't been for the party leadership helping him, he wouldn't be the nominee. He went from up ten in SD polls to losing on the last weekend by 15 after having essentially been declared the nominee by the media. That is not a strong candidate, IMO.
So while I don't think it will take much for Obama to get it together, this slide has been going on for a long time and so far he hasn't been able to reverse it. He stopped the slide with his Biden selection (he had been bleeding support in August, after having climbed in June), but he hasn't found a way to reverse it.
I think he's still ahead, but if this trend keeps up, it's going to be very tough in November.
Posted by BDBlue at September 9, 2008 01:50 PMhttp://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
Posted by benna at September 9, 2008 02:03 PMSadly, the reaction to Palin was so venomous, trashy, and sometimes, completely unfounded, that any criticism now will be taken with a grain of salt, and the source's credibility in question.
The Republican Party set the trap, and the progressive blogs walked right into it, severely damaging the very candidate they purported to support.
Daily Palin hatred faxed from the Obama campaign does not a presidential victory make. Nor does it increase the credibility of the blogosphere as "media watchers."
Sad, really, what happened in the primary, and then what was repeated in the general.
Rove played them like a drum.
Posted by Mary at September 9, 2008 02:10 PMAny evidence of your claims Mary would be welcome, especially of these "hatred" faxes.
Posted by Steve Soto at September 9, 2008 02:21 PMDaily Palin hatred faxed from the Obama campaign does not a presidential victory make.
Thanks Yoda!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 9, 2008 02:26 PMWho needs proof when you have bitterness on your side, right, Mary?
Posted by iamcoyote at September 9, 2008 02:29 PMDaily Palin hatred faxed from the Obama campaign does not a presidential victory make.
This coming from the campaign that has sent email chain letters claiming their opponent is the anti-Christ, and followed up with TV ads laden with references to Left Behind.
Flat Earthers are something else.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 02:37 PMThere is no reason to panic or play armchair quarterback. McCain is at his post-convention peak and it's a tied race. The peak is already turning around in the tracking polls - give it until the end of the week and I'm pretty sure we'll be breathing easier.
We should not expect logic to matter, by the way. High information politically active voters like us use logic in deciding our vote, but that isn't how it works for the low information voters who decide the next president. That's why each campaign creates a narrative for their own campaign and for their opponent ("Change", "More of the Same"). The candidate with the best and most consistent narrative will win.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at September 9, 2008 02:39 PMyou're missing the point, capj. this is not about panic, and obama should still win. but he won't win in a rout, and he should have.
Posted by Turkana at September 9, 2008 02:49 PMNew SUSA poll shows McCain up 20 points in North Carolina. Up 3 points in Virginia.
Posted by Mary at September 9, 2008 02:51 PMIt's about panic for me! I'm fairly panicked. The dems are so good at losing. We'll have to wait and see.
Posted by CG at September 9, 2008 02:53 PMAs John Cleese once said to Michael Palin, "Predictable, Really."
All this post convention worry about the Cubs going on a losing streak and missing the playoffs -- I mean Obama not leading in the polls -- was in fact predicted on TPM:
It's Happening. Were You Prepared?
In late August, right before the Democratic Convention, I wrote a post titled, "It's Gonna Happen, And When It Does, We Need To Be Prepared".
...
"Then the Republican Convention will come just one week later, and things will get skewered.
Very skewered. When they do, we have to be fully prepared for what's going to happen: McCain will get a boost in the polls, perhaps even truly overtaking Obama for the first time since he clinched the nomination."
"When McCain starts having a better showing in the polls, we need, absolutely not, let it get us down. Morale is a huge factor in keeping
the hope alive.
...
"We need to not declare that the fight is over. We need to put things into perspective, and most of all, we need to fight harder than ever to make sure Obama surges ahead of McCain when the post-Convention poll skewering finally subsides. We need to unite, stronger than ever, campaign harder than ever, and donate more than ever."
It's going to be alright. Get away from TV and the web for a few days -- don't think about it. When you come back the bounce will have faded.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 03:02 PMbut he won't win in a rout, and he should have.
Is this a new variation on "wahhh, where's my unity pony?" 'Cos it sure sounds like it.
Posted by iamcoyote at September 9, 2008 03:11 PMBTW, like "Slick Willy" we need a better handle for McCain.
I suggest "The Gambler". Not far from "Maverick", so it's an easy jump for people to make, but the connotations are such that you might like him, but you wouldn't want him in charge of your assets or your government.
It's also not so partisan-derisive (a la "Holy Joe" Lieberman) that people won't adopt it.
John "The Gambler" McCain. The fact that he's from Arizona completes the image.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 03:14 PMI dunno, Anonny, McCain's pretty much outta the picture anymore, isn't he? Even the 'pukes aren't pretending anymore.
Posted by iamcoyote at September 9, 2008 03:20 PMLooking at the polls I think that maybe we liberals, and conservatives live in a bubble. I was not impressed at all with the GOP convention and thought Obama portrayed himself and his direction for the country well during the DNC convo. Unfortunately it seems that the message the Repubs are selling has more resonance that I don't think any real reconfiguring of tactics would undo. I mean come on, out of 10 people you see out on the street, 5 honestly believe the Palin-McCain ticket would be better for the country? Last month was closer to only 4, and I thought how stupid people have to be. I still think there is time to turn this positive. Perhaps the current polls reflect a bounce in areas where Palin-McCain were a lock to win already, since the Battleground polls seem to not fluctuate as much. After the 2004 election it should be apparent elections sometimes have no rhyme or reason to them, other than being a quadrennial entrant for the Darwin Awards. Anyway, I agree to an extent that with circumstances being what they are, we should see better polling numbers. I'm alot more cynical regarding the remedies being offered turning the tide, unless it includes the direct pandering and deep personal attacks that dont seem to be in the Democrats DNA.
Posted by kdub at September 9, 2008 03:22 PMAs John Cleese once said to Michael Palin, "Predictable, Really."
Hilarious! My UPS guy is a brit, and when he comes in to do the afternoon pickup, he yells "bring out your dead." He just yelled it out as I read your comment!
Posted by iamcoyote at September 9, 2008 03:29 PMI dunno, Anonny, McCain's pretty much outta the picture anymore, isn't he? Even the 'pukes aren't pretending anymore.
Wow, what a notion. The mere concept boggles the mind. Have to think on that and do a brain reset.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 03:29 PMiamcoyote -- you DID see the Michael Palin for president video, didn't you?
I am convinced that the skit about the election between the Sensible and Silly Party was a inspired prediction of Gingrich/Bush era politics.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 03:33 PMyou clearly don't understand my point, coyote. obama should still win. which is good. but wouldn't it have been nice to have actually had the change election the voters were ripe to give us?
Posted by Turkana at September 9, 2008 03:35 PMhttp://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
Posted by benna at September 9, 2008 02:03 PM
Good try Benna...we are not so interested in whether Ms Moosepiss tried to pull books out of the libaray...it's the lies about the bridge to nowhere and the bullshit about dissing earmarks...and in general, the fact that Ms. Moosepiss is a lying cow with no experience that bugs us and that is what will kill the ticket.
but he won't win in a rout, and he should have. ...it ain't close to over Turkana...as has been stated, these clowns are at the top of their polls and they won't go higher....Obama wins big, wait and see.
Posted by Goyo at September 9, 2008 03:54 PMWe had a winner except the kool-ade drinkers went on a binge and disgraced themselves. Quite frankly, the Dem party needs a President McCain. At least we then have chance of ridding the Pelosi, Dean, Brazille, and Reid faction. I survived 8 years of Bush, I can wait 4 more for a Clinton to come in and clean up the Bush-McCain mess.
Posted by NoBama4Me at September 9, 2008 04:08 PMIf we do lose, will we at least have the satisfaction of having Dean, Roosevelt, Germond, et al resign?
Posted by pereubu77 at September 9, 2008 04:09 PMTurkana:
you clearly don't understand my point, coyote. obama should still win. which is good. but wouldn't it have been nice to have actually had the change election the voters were ripe to give us?
What we're talking about is an election that's a mere mere or slim majority that is easily characterized as one that is, "not a mandate for change" to one that is a landslide and an inarguable consensus for change.
But, Bush had a man-date in 2004, right?
And I'm not even touching on GOP efforts turnout suppression or small-scale groups of gimmicked balloting machines. A potential landslide makes a victory possible where voter suppression and electronic fraud would flip a narrow election to the Republican Party.
I'm waiting until the last week of September to panic. Numbers right now are very misleading and soft.
Posted by idiosynchronic at September 9, 2008 04:11 PM....He stopped the slide with his Biden selection ..... BDBlue 01:50 PMAu contraire, his selection of Biden, one of the more enthusiastic war supporters, was a disaster. It showed Obama's and his uber-supporters hypocrisy on the war issue and did nothing for party unity. Since then, his campaign has been feckless and his television appearances weak and ineffectual. Voters need to see a candidate with strong, easily articulated beliefs. Obama is incapable of that. Obama had an 8-point lead among white women voters, now McCain has a 12-point lead. That's a 20-point move in one week. The wrong way. McCain had 2-point lead among independents, now it's 15 points. This year should have been a Democratic blowout. Now, it's beginning to look like another 2004. Posted by Mike at September 9, 2008 04:12 PM
Voters need to see a candidate with strong, easily articulated beliefs.
Yah right Mike, cuz when I'm thinking about a candidate with stong easily articulated beliefs, I'm thinkin' John McCain....he doesn't remember what he believes in...oh and btw: my dog Otis has this to say about polls:
Nationwide, there are about 42 million registered Democrats and about 31 million Republicans, according to statistics compiled by The Associated Press.
To quote that great amurican: Bring em on!!
Posted by Goyo at September 9, 2008 04:26 PMI don't make up the facts; just report 'em...
Posted by benna at September 9, 2008 04:42 PMMore facts (see #59)
http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/
I won't be voting republican, but slurs and 'it makes me feel good' insults shouldn't be a part of the democratic party character.....
Posted by benna at September 9, 2008 04:54 PMBe Hoppy, Doan' Worray!
The Brits can throw the "How can 59 million people be so stupid?" headlines away.
The 527s will save the day.
Obama has lost control of the narrative. Palin is the new new flavor.
Done anyone in their right mind think that McCain would have chosed Palin if Hillary had been VP? or top of the ticket? Obama lost the election IMO when he picked Biden-showed that he was willing to sell out "change" willing to sell out "anti war" and willing to sell out "Washington outsider" in addition to selling out "Clinton Dems."
now let's watch the positioning to blame Hillary when he loses.
Posted by susan at September 9, 2008 05:12 PMiamcoyote -- you DID see the Michael Palin for president video, didn't you?
I don't think I did... I'll google it!
What we're talking about is an election that's a mere mere or slim majority that is easily characterized as one that is, "not a mandate for change" to one that is a landslide and an inarguable consensus for change.But, Bush had a man-date in 2004, right?
That was my point, really. Thanks, idio.
but he won't win in a rout, and he should have.
Why? Because people are sick of Bush more than they're scared of change? Come on, I don't think anyone's taking into consideration the really low Congress approval polls for the last year. The Dems promised change in '06, and didn't deliver much of anything, and the people aren't too thrilled about it. I never bought into the "it'll be a rout" talk, whichever one won the primary, because of that. I figure we'll win, by a comfortable enough margin, because I'm pretty impressed with Obama's ground game. It can't win alone, that's for sure, but it was demonstrably effective in the primary.
but wouldn't it have been nice to have actually had the change election the voters were ripe to give us?
You mean in terms of imagery? Who's to say it won't happen? Polls coming off back to back conventions after vacations and Olympics and the first week of school for most families aren't significant enough for me to worry yet. We'll know in the next two weeks what his strategy will be and how people are taking it. It's just too early for me to give in to despair just yet.
Posted by iamcoyote at September 9, 2008 05:40 PMnow let's watch the positioning to blame Hillary when he loses.
Posted by susan at September 9, 2008 05:12 PM
What's up Suzette??.....a little PUMA hangover that won't go away?
Posted by Goyo at September 9, 2008 05:50 PMTurakan,
What you said...and he's black. Nobody seems to mention this and it is probably the biggest reason the election is so close.
I'm not hitting the panic button and I won't stab him in the back if he loses, as Liberals were quick to do with Gore and Kerry.
Part of the reason our candidates have trouble is because they are smart which gives everyone an inferiority complex (see elitist meme). Still we keep picking people like this because we admire their intelligence and positions.
I'm not sure what can be done about it, I'm not sure Bill Clinton could even have won w/o Perot pulling Rep votes. Maybe its just he country we live in, maybe things aren't bad enough yet for enough people to notice. Whatever the reason we have trouble winning the White House. Casting our best politicians aside if they lose isn't productive, nor is all the hand wringing.
Posted by midwestdem at September 9, 2008 06:13 PMHere's your hangover, goyo:
Obama is down 20 points in North Carolina, down 11 points in Montana, down 7 points in Ohio.
He's only up 2 points in Pennsylvania, 1 point in Michigan, 3 points in Wisconsin.
And in Washington State, the uber-liberal, he's down 12 poinst from a previous 16 point lead, so he's only leading by 4 points.
Chuck Todd says it's down to 4 states: Colorado, Virginia, Ohio, and New Hampshire. That implies that Todd has given up on Florida.
Obama is down 20 points with white suburban women.
Obama is down 15 points with Independents.
Even Chris Matthews said on his show tonight that Obama seems "listless" and "down."
THERE is your hangover.
Posted by Mary at September 9, 2008 06:18 PMMary,
What's your angel?
What do you think Obama/Democrats should do to win NOW?
Not what should we have done? Not what would somebody else do? What about right now?
Honestly, do you even want the Democratic ticket to win? I haven't quite figured you out yet.
Posted by midwestdem at September 9, 2008 06:19 PMLet me make one major thing clear, midwestern: I'd LOVE to see the Democrats win this year. In fact, I was counting on it.
But Obama's first BIG choice, to unify the party in his VP pick, was wrong, and showed weakness.
He made his choices, and he has to live with the consequences.
Bottom line.
Posted by Mary at September 9, 2008 06:24 PMMary,
I didn't peg you for a lurking Conservative;-) They are pretty easy to spot by what they say. It's like you pull the string on any of them and you hear the same thing.
-You know who you are!!!-
Anyway, I'm trying to keep it positive. I will start to panic if the polls look like this a few weeks from now. I suspect Palin will never be more popular than she is right now. Being a national politician has a way of raising your negatives.
I give it up for HRC too. She's out their battling.
Posted by midwestdem at September 9, 2008 06:34 PMObama has lost control of the narrative. Palin is the new new flavor.
You are so full of it.
1) The election is now about Change. Period. It's the theme of both candidates. That is EXACTLY what Obama wanted.
2) Sarah Plain was literally unknown until her announcement ELEVEN days ago. All unknowns get a honeymoon period. Her's is nearly over -- even Fox News is dumping on her insistent lies about The Bridge to Nowhere.
Look, we all know in great detail how the press character assasinated Gore. We all know how the press failed to defend Kerry. We don't know how they will react this time. It's tempting to think the are all pro-Republican, but it's more complicated than that. Not all Republican corporate types are happy with Bush and McCain, and a lot of them (especially those associated with AIPAC) are very concerned about Plain. And the individual journalists are getting downright pissed off at John "The Gambler" McCain.
Obama can't count on the press being of assistance, but even the press is starting to hit Plain hard on her lies. Blood is in the water.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 06:35 PMHere's my campaign message idea for the Obama crew in response to the "Drill baby, drill" theme.
"Gas prices have fallen in response to lower demand by the West. Yet, even as we speak, OPEC is meeting to discuss stemming the flow of oil in order to increase prices.
What this means is even if we were to start dilling now, which will not reap rewards for several years, it is unlikely to really have an impact on the prices we pay at the pump. Because for every barrel we produce another nation can simply reduce its own output.
For this reason, I am willing to consider domestic drilling but only as part of a comprehensive approach to ween us off oil through the use of new technologies, many of which exist today and simply need a push to get them into Americans' homes."
I know it's a little off topic, but I asked for solutions so I figured I'd throw one out myself:-)
Posted by midwestdem at September 9, 2008 06:48 PMAnonny,
Good point. It is hard to say Obama's lost the narrative now that McPalin are running as the "me, too" ticket and "change". This goes as far as McCain's new found talk of ending the war in Iraq.
I can sense a seed developing in the media about Palin's playing free-and-loose with her political past. Even Renee Montagne on Morning Edition today set Juan Williams straight as he tried to dance around Palin's lying.
Posted by midwestdem at September 9, 2008 07:00 PMObama is down 20 points in North Carolina
First off Mary, you're a troll so let's get that off the table...but remember: SurveyUSA is a fraud. They had Clinton tied with Obama in the primaries and Obama won NC by 14.
Lest we forget: Since 2006, the Democrats have added 167,000 voters in North Carolina, while the Republicans have added 36,000.
...but more importantly:Nationwide, there are about 42 million registered Democrats and about 31 million Republicans, according to statistics compiled by The Associated Press.
So Mary, you can say I'd LOVE to see the Democrats win this year. In fact, I was counting on it...but you are lying through your teeth....seems to be a republican trait....I told Bagley to put up the $$$ and bet against Obama....we haven't seen him since.
coyote,
i'm not despairing, but the idea of expanding the map is gone. he's pulling out of some states. the election will, as i've long been saying, come down mostly to the states it always does.
Posted by Turkana at September 9, 2008 07:27 PMHere's another number from the new NBC poll out today, that Keith Olbermann and Chris matthews won't tell you:
It shows a 23 point swing towards McCain among women between the ages of 18 and 49, all races included. (ie, not just white suburban women).
23 points.
And it also shows the Independents moving to McCain.
PPP poll shows Florida 50/45 for McCain.
Posted by Mary at September 9, 2008 07:45 PMI can sense a seed developing in the media about Palin's playing free-and-loose with her political past. Even Renee Montagne on Morning Edition today set Juan Williams straight as he tried to dance around Palin's lying.
Go further. Many, if not most, of the political journalists now have blogs. Read the blogs. Most of them have had it with McCain and Palin's lying, and while they are still pussy-footing around it in the official dispatches, they are calling it out for what it is in their blogs.
Meanwhile, as for our Alaskan self-described pitbull, the Alaskan journalists, both on the left and the right, have feelings about her ranging from dislike to loathing. For her sake it's too bad she couldn't have been picked 9 or 10 months ago, when the honeymoon was still going on and the people in Juneau were giving her the benefit of the doubt. But by now, her failure to do basic state business, her petty vindictivness, her cronyism, her chronic rule breaking, and her ability to pathologically lie without breaking a sweat have turned most of that town against her -- people from both parties. Yes statewide she still has high approval ratings, but the trend is sharply downward.
Just check out any Alaskan paper or newscast -- they are asking the hard questions and pointing out the lies. And I've noticed that attitude is making its way into the national press, now that the national press is experiencing the same treatment. You can be 100% sure the national press called up their colleagues and in Alaska and got the scoop on her.
8 years ago the villagers conspired to destroy Gore. 4 years ago they were still having their world ruled by Drudge. I'm not sure what's happening now, but I know they are aware of the intense criticism they've been under and of their very low approval ratings from the public. We could be about to see a major blowback from the press.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 07:47 PMSorry, Goyo.
Big Tent Democrat at Talk Left considers SUSA to be the most reliable of all polls, and the most trustworthy.
And Big Tent is a poll expert.
Go argue with BTD, if you feel the need to have a hissy fit.
The numbers come from him.
Posted by Mary at September 9, 2008 07:48 PMHere's another number from the new NBC poll out today, that Keith Olbermann and Chris matthews won't tell you:
That it's even! A dead heat!
Mary produce your links or STFU!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 9, 2008 08:15 PMTurkana sez:
Palin quickly should have been defined as the corrupt, unprepared, unqualified, theocratic extremist she is, and any cries of misogyny would have been pre-emptively neutralized because it would have been clear that the problems with Palin have nothing to do with her gender, her being a mother, or any other irrelevant personal matters.
Sorry, but my memory has not yet disappeared down the memory hole. Turkana is someone who spent, oh, at least January through June tag-teaming with eriposte to slam Obama as content to go along misogyny amongst the media and his own supporters. That particular line is flogged rather less frequently now at TLC, although it has ossified into orthodoxy on many I-love-Hillary-and-hate-Obama websites. To see Turkana now blithely saying, in effect, "Oh, worries about perceived misogyny? No problem!"...well, let's just say I find this at a minimum rather ironic.
Turkana also sez:
But the political winds, overall, still blow to Obama's advantage. He is still not only the smarter, more articulate candidate, but the only candidate who is trying to honestly and pragmatically address important issues.
And once again before it's gone down the memory hole, let's recall how Turkana and eriposte repeatedly slammed Obama for allegedly NOT "pragmatically address[ing] important issues," but instead just promoting a bogus rhetoric of hope and change.
Well, I guess I can at least take comfort that Turkana has quit talking about Obamabots and Kool-aid drinkers.
Palin quickly should have been defined as the corrupt, unprepared, unqualified, theocratic extremist she is, and any cries of misogyny would have been pre-emptively neutralized because it would have been clear that the problems with Palin have nothing to do with her gender, her being a mother, or any other irrelevant personal matters.
Or maybe, just maybe, you let her have her two weeks of honeymoon, praise her strengths then let her have it.
Kind of like, let me see, ...
Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your ear.
I come to bury Caesar not to praise him.
Oh yeah. Start by praising, gain the trust of the audience, then work your way into pointing out the flaws of your opponents. Hey, that can work too!
If anything Palin is such a bad choice and such an easy target that the negative stuff came too fast. The Alaska press was already on to her, even if the Alaska public is just now catching on, and they had all the goods to give the national press. The press vetting was so swift and the problems they found so severe that it did cause a backlash in the public mind, although the press was not guilty of doing anything wrong (except for the Enquirer, which goes without saying). McCain played that up and the press has backed off for a bit.
But this isn't 2003 any more, when a the press wouldn't challenge Bush for fear of being labeled a traitor. This press smells blood and only backed off long enough to give the appearance of "fairness". Tonight just about every news channel let her have it.
Posted by Anonny at September 9, 2008 09:11 PM"He needs to stay away from snide put-downs of women."
That was not a putdown of women, it was a putdown of one person who happens to be a woman.
"how about using the words "working class" instead of "middle class" every once in a while?"
Maybe because it is the middle class that is disappearing?
Posted by Shirin at September 9, 2008 09:41 PMHere's another number from the new NBC poll out today, that Keith Olbermann and Chris matthews won't tell you:
Mary please....as if NBC has two polls and Matthews only knows of one....you need to lay off the beans...
Posted by Goyo at September 9, 2008 09:45 PMEd Koch is a Democrat.
Posted by Jonesy at September 9, 2008 10:29 PM"things will get skewered."
The use of skewered in this context does not inspire confidence in the writer's understanding of is subject since he does not know even the basic terminology. The word is skewed. To be skewered is literally to be pierced through with a sharp object. The figurative meaning of skewered should be clear.
Posted by Shirin at September 9, 2008 10:54 PM"...OPEC is meeting to discuss stemming the flow of oil in order to increase prices."
It's their oil, and they have every right to charge whatever they can get for it.
Everyone who thinks the American oil companies don't play the same games, please raise your hands. OK, now everyone with their hand up, grab a dunce cap and stand in the nearest corner. Wow - those corners sure are getting crowded!
Posted by Shirin at September 9, 2008 11:19 PMjoel,
speaking of obamabots, please point me to a post where i accused obama of promoting misogyny. thanks.
Posted by Turkana at September 9, 2008 11:44 PMWe tried and tried and tried to tell you which Democratic candidate could win. And you belittled us, demeaned us, cursed at us, and drove us away.
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Ed Koch is a Democrat.
Thanks for the heads up. For all his support of Ray-Gun and George W. I thought he was a repuke.
All I hope is he helps Obama with the Jewish vote, especially in FL. Clinton and Koch campaigning for Obama there would help put us over the top.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 10, 2008 07:27 AMIt's way too early for "I-told-you-so" post-mortems of the presdential race.
Posted by NealB at September 10, 2008 07:33 AMand drove us away.
Well, apparently not, since you keep coming back.
Posted by iamcoyote at September 10, 2008 07:41 AMSeventied it!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 10, 2008 08:49 AM>>Well, apparently not, since you keep coming back.
Yep, just like the Glenn Close character in Fatal Attraction. You people have destroyed the Democratic Party. Admire your handiwork.
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Wha?? WTF are you babbling on about? Poor thing, you truly need an intervention, looks like the drugs have messed up your mind and now you're back in the '80s. Seek help, you've become a laughingstock.
Posted by iamcoyote at September 10, 2008 11:13 AMLet's face it folks,
Ref: "...But here we are, with a candidate who looks much weaker than the blogs made him seem, last winter and spring, a campaign strategy that some of us never liked" - Turkana
In any other election year Barak Obama would have been blown away by a passing ping pong ball. But this year, a year that should have brought a tsunami of reform....well...Obama may drag the party down a bit, he'll make it over the presidential threshold which will enable him to enact policies that will ensure the elite even more years of idle comfort while the masses suffer ruin.
Watching Barak sucker punch his supporters with FISA was just a taste of what's to come, I can't wait to say I told you so when he privatizes Social Security.
Opportunist and suckers are the modern Democrats audience...and you want to talk about Palin? Good Grief.
When the Democrats embrace FDR & LBJ policies call me...until then...your pathetic whining about the big bully doesn't do a thing for me.
Posted by S Brennan at September 10, 2008 12:25 PMyour pathetic whining about the big bully doesn't do a thing for me.
Oh dear. I'm crushed I tell you! And after all the whining I was doing, hoping you'd notice, praying you'd care. But no, no call, no email, just a dear coyote note on a blog.
Wahhhhh!
Posted by iamcoyote at September 10, 2008 12:48 PMWatch that "articulate." You racist.
Which, if you think about it, is really a comment on your last line: "This should have been the change election of Obama's rhetoric; but his own political strategy ensured that it wouldn't be."
Yep. Thanks for the post.
Posted by lambert strether at September 10, 2008 04:03 PM