accepting ANY Bush Admin plan on ANYTHING should be a non-starter. They have been wrong, and terribly wrong, on each and every move they have made-----or have they? Is it not possible that in each move they make, the deep down motive is to create a mess which opens an opportunity to screw us even further. This Bailout Plan certainly seems to fit that bill, and I certainly hope that Obama (and Clinton if she is still somewhere in the country) will step forward and make sure the Congress doesn't rubber stamp the latest in a long line of "Congress must act Now", George Bush "cram it down our throats" Conservative GOP crap intended to make money for the Rich and further screw the freedom and wellbeing of everyone else.
trivial typo first word of the post.
*delete this comment*
Posted by simp at September 22, 2008 07:24 AMThe hopeless unseriousness of our failed country is once again on display. We sit and listen to Paulson and Bernanke gas on for months about the "soundness" of the financial system, how the "fundamentals" are strong, despite a legion of independent non-institutional experts screaming that the wheels are going to fall off and everything and everyone is awash in debt, most of it bad.
Then last Thursday Bushco leads Congress into a secret room and tells them that unless they give the banks a (revolving) bailout of $700 billion in the next two days, the entire global financial system will collapse in two hours. The pinheaded fool "leaders" respond as though they hadn't the slightest idea there was any real finacial problem afoot, are "stunned" at its magnitude, and OF COURSE such a group of serious officials as can be found running Bushco are the height of official credibility and straight talking.
So now the Hapless Congress is desperately trying to figure out what exactly the problem is, and what alternatives exist to a no-strings attached $1 Trillion (if we're lucky) world-wide bank bailout, with no prep work or team of independent experts they can rely on, with no acknowleged Congressional leader who seems to be intimately informed on any of these matters. Oh, and it's got to be done by Tuesday when the markets open. I guess they can read Krugman or Balkin into the Congressional Record. (Krugman's slavish support for Bernanke isn't the greatest medal of honor, BTW).
This isn't serious, it's a farce, a satire of "government". We act like the economy is some sort of natural phenomenon, like a hurricane or an earthquake that we just have to "react" to whatever "natural disaster" it presents us with.
Um, we made the thing, we're in charge of it. It's a creation of humanity. It does require actual oversight, knowlege and analysis. We have two or three plans in effect for invading and occupying every country on earth from Canada to India, but of course don't have one proactive "plan" or ahead of the disaster analysis of what the possible alternatives are if a market crisis presents itself. Just do whatever the (failed) executive says. Great thinking. Can't miss!
Posted by euzoius at September 22, 2008 08:11 AMThank god the die hard republi-cons have this figured out: It's Clinton's fault. And if they'll add a piece from Palin -there are witches plaguing us- they have a complete thought. "It's Clinton's fault and witches are plaguing us." It's sure as shit a lot easier for them to have this almost complete thought than rational analysis of the facts.
Obama came out against Paulson's idea. That is a good thing. I hope Congressional Democrats -and Princess Sparkle Pelosi and "My boys are lobbyists" Reid will fold like a cheap card table-follow suit.
In a fair world, these "Wall Street Typhoons" will be exposed to the same thing the little people are exposed to under the bankruptcy law they pushed for:
1. This is all under Chapter 13 type rules: The debt lasts forever until payed back.
2. Means testing: Corporate boards including the CEO may make no more compensation than 20X the income of their lowest paid employee. If they make more than 20X, they are subject to an effective tax rate of 95%.
3. Counseling requirements: They must have public financial counseling to help shame them into understanding they are fuckheads and very bad people for getting into this mess when they are supposed to titans of finance.
4. The American Public receives dividends before any other entity including other investors. As long as the entity holds public debt, the public debt should be repayed first.
What's good for the little people should be good for them. Especially the shame part.
Of course, every New Deal regulation should be instituted immediately, and some really punitive ones added on. Lest anyone think I want payback for the last 8 years, let me put your mind at ease. I want BIG FUCKING PAYBACK for the last 8 years.
Posted by phidipides at September 22, 2008 08:44 AMThe part that still blows my mind is giving "unfettered authority" to Paulson. A man who was warned time and again about this impending disaster. And now, give him all the power to complete the deal.
Sorry bu$h we've down this road before... that right there should be the deal breaker for congress.
Stirling Newberry makes some of the same observations Turkana.
Let us speak of rights and reason. Of rights we have to begin from the final humiliation against a free people a proposal to grant dictatorial powers to an outgoing administration. In effect, the ability to hide all of the financial wrong doing of the last 8 years.However, what is important now is a solution. What we need now, is reason in action, as we already have reason to act.
It would give Paulson not only the power to buy assets, but put terms in place which would make legal investigation of those arrangements impossible, and these contracts could not be questioned in a court of law. It is the Authorization for Use of Military Force, Protect America Act, and war spending votes all rolled into one. Having seen that it cannot assume the unitary executive since the Supreme Court rejected it, they are now turning to Article III to get a trembling Congress to accept it. There is a crisis, but there is no catastrophe. Even when the physical nexus of the financial world was directly attacked, there was no need for this kind of unlimited spending power.
The outlines of that solution are beginning to be accepted. It is a simpler, and broader, solution than has yet penetrated the minds of the interiors of power, because it is not about how to pay for a clean up within a functioning system, but how to change the system itself.
This is not a financial crisis in the end, as the Paulson Proposal shows, but a constitutional moment, where the very mandate of government is in play. Paulson wants the tax payer to be the fool of last resort, the group of people stupid enough to buy things that no one else on the planet is stupid enough to buy. We have reached the currency crisis which the election of 2000 implied would come. If we do not solve it now, it will only recur, in a worse form, soon enough.
The gut reaction on the Paulson proposal is a resounding Hell No. The word reviled is not to strong.
Posted by Seven of Six at September 22, 2008 08:45 AM
absolutely nothing should be done until November 4.
Posted by T2 at September 22, 2008 08:48 AMI want BIG FUCKING PAYBACK for the last 8 years.
And yet, with this proposal, this is exactly the escape clause bu$h wants.
Didja call Congress yet?
1 (800) 828 - 0498
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (877) 851 - 6437
1 (800) 459 - 1887
Call your Representative, your two Senators and Speaker Pelosi and tell them "No sweeping powers for Paulson."
Tell them, "The Bush Administration repeatedly does this. Major crises, scare Congress to death and then ask for sweeping powers. It has never, ever worked out well. Look at the Patriot Act, look at the AUMF. No deal."
Trust me, they log the calls and check the pulse of the people. That is one reason why the "drill here, drill now" crowd got so much of what they wanted. They called and contacted Congress endlessly.
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 08:58 AMAlso (from Judith yesterday)
Demand that Cheney and Bush resign.
Paulson's Plunder in detail.
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 09:05 AMHank Paulsen came to the Treasury from Goldman Sachs. Anything he proposes is going to protect Wall Street - they'll get their bailout, they'll get their enormous CEO pay, and they'll skate away while the workers get stuck with the bill.
Posted by ann at September 22, 2008 09:14 AMMcKeating/Palin 08: We even scare the bejesus out of Sam Donaldson and George Will!
And yet, with this proposal, this is exactly the escape clause bu$h wants.
Well, yeah! This is the war on...the war on...hmmmm. It's looks like the on us, doesn't it? I guess the Mad Kind, idiot son of George the Lame, is gonna show us what happens if we don't love him enough.
But...you do have to admit he encouraged home ownership. These people own their homes lock, stock and barrel. Not since the Hoovervilles have so many new homeowners owned their homes unfettered by mortgages.
Posted by phidipides at September 22, 2008 09:25 AMThese people own their homes lock, stock and barrel. Not since the Hoovervilles have so many new homeowners owned their homes unfettered by mortgages.
Damn phid, call 'em what they are... "bu$hville$!"
Posted by Seven of Six at September 22, 2008 09:52 AMAll the unfinished condo and townhome projects rotting in the sun, and abandoned exurban cul-de-sacs with one or two doomed families hanging on.....those are the Bushvilles....
Posted by euzoius at September 22, 2008 10:14 AMAnd that photo Think Progress has with bu$h, paul$on and bernanke all smiles... yep, the last rip-off of the American people that bu$h can try to get away with!!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 22, 2008 10:24 AMHere is the best explanation of how mcliar help us get in this shit hole again. This is the third time.
Posted by smooth at September 22, 2008 11:13 AMMcCain sez this is the "worst crisis since WWII."
Hmmm. I thought that "Islamic Fascism" was the worst crisis facing this country?
What is McCain saying? The Bush Admin and their fuck ups are a larger threat to this country than the terrorism that has demanded a flush away of our civil liberties and human rights?
Interesting. Dumb ass.
Bloomberg sez Obama better equipped to deal with this crisis.
Dems say they won't be fooled again. Please call them and make sure that they won't.
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 11:27 AM!OUCH!
New poll: Zero percent of Americans think national economy is improving.
Bush’s overall approval rating fell to 19 percent, from 30 percent last month, with 76 percent disapproving.
Anjha,
800-614-2803 is disconnected. The other numbers ring with no answer.
Posted by smooth at September 22, 2008 11:51 AMMcCain sez this is the "worst crisis since WWII."
It's Buschlamofascism and the Buschlamofascist terrorists on Wall Street! I knew it all along. We need to attack New Jersey and overthrow Mayor McCheese to teach them Wall Streeters a lesson...and bring the New Jersianians democracy. Can't forget that. Do New Jesianians have any oil? Hmmmm... Shit! Attack the Texicanians!! Those bastard Texicanians and their anti-capitalistic rehetoric. We must bring them democracy!
Oops...almost forgot. Can't forget to push the fear thing: Be afraid, be VERY AFRAID! Bend forward, grab your knees, and stuff your head up your ass out of fear. If it's good enough for McKeating and his republi-con fucktard followers it's good enough for the rest of us.
Posted by phidipides at September 22, 2008 11:54 AMHas ANY president ever dropped to 19% approval??
Posted by MaskedVigilante at September 22, 2008 11:55 AMThanks Smooth.
I called the first one 1 (800) 828 - 0498 - with no problem this morning.
Maybe they are very busy receiving lots of calls?
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 12:04 PMPer Hartmann re: the toll free numbers:
"Toll-free numbers, sponsored by a variety of sources, come and go, so this list may not be current (although we try to update it often). If you find dead numbers here, or know of numbers we could/should add, drop an email to thom at thomhartmann.com."
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 12:05 PMMcTurd is going to pull that he's against the Paulson/Busco bailout that McTurd's deregulatory policies made inevitable. He'll become Mr. Wrinkly White-haired Populist Dude, and Team Repub will take the same position in Congress.
The Dems sure as Hell better see what's going on here---they are voting WITH Bushco to approve the greatest taxpayer bailot in history to supposedly "save" the global financial system and all our asses, while the Repubs all vote against to to show their "independence" from Bushco and their new found hatred of bailouts.
If Paulson can't get 80% of his Repubs to vote for the final bill, then just say "Sorry, Hank, it's Dead". And let the chips fall where they may.
If Repubs won't take responsibility for their vile irresponsible conservative "policies" of the past decade, then let the hurricane they recklessly sowed hit and pick up the pieces later.
Posted by euzoius at September 22, 2008 12:06 PMLookit the bill that Bushco wants.
"Sec. 7. Funding. For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure."
"including the payment of administrative expenses"
Hmm. I betcha it will be Bushco friends who perform "administrative" duties. Privatize the bailout too!
"Sec. 8. Review. Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
"may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
These crooks. Criminals.
I would not trust them to mow my lawn...I certainly do not trust them to walk away with $1 Trillion of our dollars.
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 12:22 PMHey - I have a question for those who understand financial crap more than I:
The Fed is not a governmental institution right? The Fed is a private org, right? Isn't this essentially taking public funds and transferring them to a private organization - the Fed?
Is this how it works?
Enlighten me.
Then there is no oversight, not subject to any court or review or nothing. What is the deal?
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 12:34 PMWell, the reality of this catastrophic situation is hitting home, even faster than one could predict it.
As the world now sees the enormity of debt we are forced to take onto the nation's books, the dollar is now collapsing, and because the oil market is priced in (now collapsing) dollars, oil is up over $25 (!) a barrel. That's just today.....
Expect more of the same. The wages of being a reckless bankrupt debtor nation.
So, we're cooked. Thanks Repubs! Heckuva job!
McTurd: No Bailouts! On to Teheran!
Posted by euzoius at September 22, 2008 12:39 PMThe Fed is the nation's central bank. Whatever it's organized as, its a governmental institution---Congress pays its debts and is responsible for what it owes. It is an "independent" agency.
And I think the Treasury is the one that's going to be buying the crap assets under the Paulson plan, isn't it? That's who's handling the Fannie/Freddie bailout, I think. The Fed usually just lends money under various credit "facilities".
Posted by euzoius at September 22, 2008 12:44 PMThanks euzious - I think I am confusing the Federal Reserve with the Treasury Dept. I just don't trust these fuck wads for anything and I am sure that they are using this to enrich themselves and their buddies; I just want to know to what extent.
Posted by Anjha at September 22, 2008 12:52 PMHey euz, under Sec. 8 (appropriate title) can Paulson conceivably change Social Security?
I know this has always been the neo-cons wet dream.
MV, I don't think any pResident has been at 19%. Even Nixon was in the low 20's.
As stupid as it sounds, I really think it is the disapproval rating they measure, which would still be a record at 76%. FDR once came in at 69% and Truman at 67% (I could have those reversed). A disapproval rating over 70%... unheard of!
Posted by Seven of Six at September 22, 2008 01:13 PMFDR once came in at 69% and Truman at 67% (I could have those reversed). A disapproval rating over 70%... unheard of!
Piffle! Under Busch, the dollar has fallen 42% in value. Let's see the others match up to that bench mark. Under Ray-Gun it only lost 30% of it's value. Not only is your home now worth much less, but the dollars to buy it are worth $00.58 compared to the $1.00 when Busch took office! republi-cons win!
I'm kissing my Chilean Pesos and Euros on the lips!
Posted by phidipides at September 22, 2008 01:25 PMThe root cause of this financial crisis have to be addressed, otherwise any solution will be palliative. Here I found this article helpful:
http://democracyandsocialism.com/Articles/WhyRecession.html
Anjha,
The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 created the Federal Reserve Bank. The Federal Reserve Bank is a privately owned consortium controlled by major global stock holding banks (mostly European and U.S.). The act mandated that the U.S. will borrow its currency from a private bank - the Federal Reserve Bank. The act was passed over a December holiday with questionable participation.
After the government requests a $1 billion loan from the Federal Reserve Bank, here is an example of how it works:
1. The Federal Reserves sends a $1 billion request to the U.S. Treasury.
2. The U.S. Treasury Department tells the U.S. Mint to print $1 billion in notes.
3. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints the $1 billion in notes.
4. The Federal Reserve pays the U.S. $240 per 1000 notes (pays cost of printing).
5. The U.S. Treasury sells U.S. Treasury obligations (securities....bonds, bills etc.) to the Federal Reserve Bank.
6. The Federal Reserve buys the securities by issuing the same notes, the U.S. Press printed in step three, back to the government. The notes are released into the money supply.
The U.S. government pays the Federal Reserve Bank interest on the U.S. Treasury obligations (securities) the Federal Reserve bought with notes the Bureau of Engraving and Printing printed on the U.S. press.
This is the biggest scam of all times. When John Kennedy signed an executive order to limit this scam, he never lived to see the results. The executive order was never executed.
Henry Ford said, "if American people ever understood the rank injustice of this banking system there will be a revolution before morning"
Henry Ford said, "if American people ever understood the rank injustice of this banking system there will be a revolution before morning"
Thanks Smooth. Excellent explaination (though I am still not sure I completely understand it.)
So - this is the reason why everytime we borrow money - and we 'just print more' - the price of the dollar actually goes down (because there is no such thing as an actual commodity backing it, like gold)?
If we borrow money from abroad, say China, do they loan it to this bank, the Fed Reserve, or directly to us?
The Reserve, all of this interest that it earns - isn't it like several hundred billion a day now? - that interest just goes to this private bank and their shareholders?
Anjha,
You have to think like a thief or con-artist to understand it. The simple explanation is:
The U.S. Treasury pays interest to the Federal Reserve Bank on it's own money.
The Federal Reserve Notes replaced the dollar. The note is like a check that the holder agrees to never cash.
The note is debt to the Federal Reserve for money the Federal Reserve never loaned the U.S. government. The U.S. pays the Federal Reserve Bank interest on notes printed on the U.S. press.
Here is an example. I am the Federal Reserve Bank and you are the U.S. Treasury. You want to borrow $ 1 million dollars. I tell you to write out a check for $ 1 million and give it to me. I take that same check and give it back to you. You can use the check in transactions without cashing it and you pay me interest on the check you wrote to me.
Posted by smooth at September 23, 2008 02:35 PMWhat are we "the American people", me the little people going to do? What is the best way to take action? I believe if we aren't careful with this we could be heading towards oblivion. I have another question:If the financial titans collapse as we know them, could there be room for other smaller more independent structures to start to form, and maybe the richie richies don't want thatcause they no longer will have control of the pie.!
Posted by deborah at September 24, 2008 02:22 PM