The simplest way to start would be to create an amendment that would either ban the proposition system or else require propositions to be of true grassroots origin, rather than corporate plants.
Posted by wilder at November 5, 2008 11:09 AMFrom my perspective in the "far" north, your propositions/initiatives system, with it's 50.1% threshold, has always seemed to me to be nothing more than mob rule hiding behind the facade of democracy.
Posted by CanadianDawn at November 5, 2008 11:22 AMThat's well said, CanadianDawn.
Posted by paradox at November 5, 2008 11:28 AMExactly right, paradox!
We need fundamental, Constitutional revision in California. A citizens' convention to start over.
The initiative and referendum system is insane, and must be either scrapped entirely or seriously revamped (i.e. require supermajorities or some majority of not just voting voters on election day, but all registered and eligible voters). As it is, we have not so much tyranny of the majority, but tyranny of the ostensible majority.
Term limits must be tossed into history's dustbin in favor of comprehensive electoral reform. Our single-member, winner-takes-all districts mark pseudo-democracy. Adding term limits to that mix strengthened the pseudo, not the democracy.
And if we don't start educating our children in civics and science, we might as well forget about a serious future entirely. As I campaigned against Prop. Hate, I ran into so many cretins on my side, I knew we would lose. I heard everything from, "I'm for gay marriage, so I'm voting "YES" on 8." --- to --- "But if they pass this amendment, we'll just say it violates the California Constitution." --- to --- "What Constitution? California doesn't have a Constitution. You mean the U.S. Constitution?" The bigots I could handle with aplomb. The morons with the helping hands boiled my blood.
Yes, California is broken. Like a schizophrenic giant who can't quite put on his own clothes, and then squashes buildings trying to make the voices in his head shut up.
Posted by Liveliest Crib at November 5, 2008 11:56 AMWhile I am sickened by the victory for the Moron Church I would suggest that the alternative to term limits was an entrenched good old boy system that was as bad as anything else. I believe we need to extend the number of times someone can run. Perhaps we should change term limits to allow 4 terms instead of 2. As to the proposition situation I think we need to enact legislation that would ban groups from out side of the state from funneling money in to support any ballot propositions as well as not allowing people to be paid to gather signatures. I believe that these changes would go a long way to correcting the problems. It would put Tom Costa out of business that's for sure.
Posted by PadrePio at November 5, 2008 11:59 AMThis post summarizes a big part of why we left CA in 2005. As one key example of the broken governmental system, the per-student allocation of tax dollars is down with LA, TX and MS, but costs are so much higher (costs of living for staff, real estate costs, construction and mainentance costs, utility costs).
Yet, CA has the highest or second-highest sales and income taxes in the nation. And property taxes? Well, the 1% of declared value rate (it's actually slightly higher than that) is around the national average, but since CA property prices are much higher than national average, even in places like Modesto and Fresno, that means that the net residential property tax per citizen is also above the national average, even when you factor in the prop 13 2%-max-increase-per-year limits. (Commercial property, OTOH, is way undertaxed as a consequence of prop 13.)
So, what this means is that a CA resident pays a hell of a lot more state taxes than the rest of the nation, except some states in the northeast. But unlike residents of the northeast they get very little in return. Roads suck. Schools suck. Hospitals suck. Even state park maintenance sucks. This is because so much of the state budget is funneled by propositions into lower priority items.
The only solution will be a total collapse that forces a redrafting of the state constitution.
Posted by Anonny at November 5, 2008 12:09 PMThe Mormon elders had approved a Sodom and Gomorrah "group pray" to cause California to suffer the "big one" and fall into the ocean. Luckily, cooler heads prevailed and they settled for blatant gay bashing.
I must confess, I was looking forward to owning beach front property.
Posted by TIKI AL at November 5, 2008 12:57 PMI'm new to this site. After reading many of the postings as well as comments, I have a question...
Are you guys Democrats?
Posted by Paul Moeller at November 5, 2008 01:21 PMAre you guys Democrats?
Oh crap, it's the concern brigade! We're busted, guys. Run away, run away!
Posted by iamcoyote at November 5, 2008 01:44 PMJust spotted this at Daily Kos:
Prop 8: The legal challenges are beginning
Looks like the Morons may still have a battle on their hands. It would be kind of ironic if it turns out that they pissed all that money away for nothing *smile*
Posted by CanadianDawn at November 5, 2008 02:16 PMPaul Moeller,
Question for you.
Does being a jackass come naturally to you or have you had to work hard at it?
May we be Democrats without your approval?
Please?
Pretty please?
Posted by snark at November 5, 2008 02:33 PMCanadianDawn,
Indeed we will try to challenge Prop Hate. It will be an uphill battle, but it is a battle that is worth it.
We will have to convince the courts that the rescission of fundamental rights is not appropriate for "amendment." Instead, we will have to argue, such a change constitutes a "revision." Revisions to the Constitution may not be accomplished through initiative and referendum or simple majority vote. Revisions require a much more arduous and comprehensive process.
Precisely what is the definition of "revision?" That will be the question for the courts.
Posted by Liveliest Crib at November 5, 2008 02:40 PMI'm new to this site. After reading many of the postings as well as comments, I have a question...
Are you guys Democrats?
Posted by Paul Moeller at November 5, 2008 01:21 PM
What's it to ya, asshole??
Posted by Goyo at November 5, 2008 03:31 PMCalifornia broke my heart last night. A majority of its voters enshrined bigotry in their state constitution.
I can only hope that oppoenents of Proposition 8 don't back down, and that those who were married prior to its ratification and thus vested under the law challenge Prop 8 in federal court for violation of the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Posted by Donald from Hawaii at November 5, 2008 05:04 PMI am as repulsed by the Morons--or Mormons, as some spell it--as anyone. Unfortunately, it was the democrats that passed the constitutional amendment Prop 8. They had the power to fight this unconscionable bill.
Seven percent of the population or thereabouts is queer, and we have been overwhelmingly in favor of civil rights for blacks and hispanics, better treatment of the poor, the ill, the elderly, against militarism, and in defense of the basic principles of fairness and equity that was written into our Constitution. Where were our fellow party members in California when this vote came up? They had the power and they voted to discriminate against us.
I yelled it for years in the streets of Raleigh when walking in front of Jesse Helms' headquarters, and I say it now to California democraps. SHAME!
Posted by candideinnc at November 5, 2008 06:15 PMRegressive taxation is baked into the constitution that continues to smash our education spending.
The problem with this is that it's completely wrong. CA has a very progressive tax system.
California has been hit particularly hard by plummeting stock prices because the state has a very progressive tax system: in 2006, the richest 1 percent of California tax filers paid nearly 50 percent of personal incomes taxes collected by the state, Palmer said.
California also spends the majority of its budget on education. Spending levels are 58% higher than a decade ago.
Link.
Posted by Bixby at November 5, 2008 07:11 PMPaul, from this day forward "conservative," and "Republican" are slurs. "Liberal" and "Democrat" have been redeemed.
Why it only takes 50% to change my constitution I will never understand.
Posted by Brendan at November 5, 2008 08:38 PMBoycott Mormon-owned businesses
http://www.mormonstockindex.com/
Isn't this family of supermarkets also run by the morons?
http://www.thekrogerco.com/
Posted by DL at November 6, 2008 01:09 AM