I completely agree, and I haven't harped on it much because I wanted to be loyal for the election.
Put these filthy criminals in jail. Being a Republican is no excuse. Seriously.
Posted by paradox at November 5, 2008 01:07 PMDon't hold your breath. Absolutely nothing will happen.
Posted by CG at November 5, 2008 01:14 PMWhat more important task will the new administration have, than to return our country to a constitutional republic? But CG you are right. Without enormous pressure, from us to investigate and prosecute, "nothing will happen."
Posted by Kevin at November 5, 2008 01:31 PMAnd people have a short attention span. Once Bush and company are gone, no one will care.
Posted by CG at November 5, 2008 02:15 PMMake a stink about it.
All you'll do is push Obama away from you.
And give the Republicans some red meat to feed their knuckledragging minions.
Posted by snark at November 5, 2008 02:20 PMThis is another “should-a, would-a, could-a” scenario ….
Yes, there should be massive investigations and possible prosecutions with all
The known crap (and the possible crap) that went on within this failed administration.
BUT, based on how Obama acted in the campaign (ie no personal attacks, working across the aisle, no longer Red State, Blue State – but the United States)….
I suspect the official policy will be to “move on” and solve the most pressing problems ASAP – and avoid placing Blame.
I could be wrong … that is my gut feel….
where would you start? I mean, real investigations using real investigators, with real judges and real consequences for the perps, even if just limited to Bush and Cheney alone, would be going on forever. Face it My Friends, the time to act was eight years ago TODAY, when the first crime was created. Once we let that slide we were screwed for the whole damn eight years.
Posted by T2 at November 5, 2008 02:30 PMI agree Turkana. We know that if these people are not brought to justice, they will live to see another day, as many of them have already done. However, I don't think that the Democrats are going to help heal the past eight years by bringing us justice. When Pelosi said "impreachment is off the table" it was a green light for those who would go on to do this Country further harm, including the pResident. For me, it was also her message that they intend to move on and not see that those who have violated this Country are brought to justice.
Don't ask me to move on, as the fraud and corrupton is seared into my brain. I shall NEVER forget. We will have to demand justice.
Posted by Judith at November 5, 2008 02:32 PMI wonder...is it possible Karl Rove really isn't a genius?
Posted by T2 at November 5, 2008 02:35 PMIf no justice comes, we will live to regret the day. Mark my word.
Posted by Judith at November 5, 2008 02:37 PMIs Ted Stevens going to serve his term as senator from his jail cell? What's the point of investigating anyone if convicted felons just get re-elected? What about Tom Delay? Did he ever go to jail--what the hell happened there?
Posted by Cg at November 5, 2008 02:37 PM"I wonder...is it possible Karl Rove really isn't a genius?"
Yes. I never thought him a genius as much as someone who would stop at nothing, morally or ethically, to win an election. That's not genius, but a souless man.
Posted by Judith at November 5, 2008 02:41 PMYou witness a shooting.
Men, women & children are lying bleeding out on the floor.
You see the perp running from the scene.
Do you chase the perp leaving the victims bleeding to death?
Or do you stay and aid the victims giving a good description of the perp to the authorities so they can pursue him later?
I know which one I'd choose.
Focus on the task at hand folks.
This country is bleeding out and it needs all of Obama's, Congress' and our attention.
Posted by snark at November 5, 2008 02:43 PMHey snark - one question - in your opinion, are these individuals of the lame duck administration responsible for crimes international or domestic?
I think you're right, it ain't gonna happen. But in my opinion, these frickin' criminals deserve at least to be in front of TV cameras confessing even if they're given immunity.
Posted by idiosynchronic at November 5, 2008 02:44 PMHey snark - one question - in your opinion, are these individuals of the lame duck administration responsible for crimes international or domestic?
They very likely are.
But in my opinion, these frickin' criminals deserve at least to be in front of TV cameras confessing even if they're given immunity.
Personally, I find more value in leading by positive example than by publically flogging the guilty. Just my personal opinion.
Posted by snark at November 5, 2008 02:48 PMSo, in other words, there are two levels of justice. One for us, and one for politicians.
Posted by Judith at November 5, 2008 03:12 PMIf that's how you choose to interpret it Judith.
Posted by snark at November 5, 2008 03:22 PMThe repug criminals will get their reward either here or in the next life. What goes around comes around and they'll reap what they have sown. I admit I'd like to see them get what's coming to them here and now but rest assured they will pay the price.
Posted by chris at November 5, 2008 03:26 PMI believe that this will work itself out without an Obama led crusade....simply the change of guard will bring about tell all books...how else does the likes of Dana Perino get an end out of her part....as these books come out, people will be exposed and they will sing rather than fry... an on and on it will go as whistleblowers will dig up emails and letters from culprits and eventually the story will take shape....maybe a bit optomistic but guaranteed a lot of ass saving will be seen once a few canaries start to sing.
OT: Can we dump Pelosi and Reid and get some teeth in the Congress? They are softball pitchers in the Big Leagues!!!...IMHO
Posted by Goyo at November 5, 2008 03:37 PMI agree wholeheartedly. Two major mistakes in American history have contributed to the Bush-Cheney crime spree.
First, the Democrats did not challenge the basis of the Nixon pardon. Pardons traditionally have been for convictions, not blankets for any crimes that might have been committed. By not challenging that the Democrats, while benefitting from a short-term gain in the 1974 mid-term elections, set two very bad precedents. First, it now is much harder to legally challenge the validity of a blanket pardon -- the Kentucky governor recently provided such pardons for his whole staff! Second, it created a notion that powerful figures are above the law, and that to remove them from power was sufficient punishment.
Second, congressional Democrats agreed in 1987 to drop possible impeachment charges against Bush and Reagan regarding Iran-Contra in exchange for Howard Baker taking over as chief of staff and cleaning house. This reinforced the two notions that the Nixon pardon created -- and Bush himself pounded the final nail in the coffin when he pardoned Weinberger and all the others after he lost to Clinton.
Now, I don't know what Obama plans. His m.o. is certainly not encouraging in this regard -- he wants to look forward, build bridges, solve problems, and clearly investigations into Bush-Cheney nastiness would get in the way of that. OTOH, it is in our interests to make it seem like the Democrats will NOT investigate the past -- at least from now until noon on 1/20/2009 -- in order to hopefully minimized the possibility that Bush will issue blanket pardons for his whole administration.
He may do so anyway, and if he does there are legal options, but certainly such pardons would complicate things greatly.
What I would like to see is for the Democrats to act, for now, like no such investigations will occur. Hear that, Conyers? Shut up for the next 76 days! Then, on 1/21/09 all kinds of people who have been keeping mum will start talking. Sy Hersch, for example, has said that he has a long list of people who say they have scandals that dwarf anything Hersch has exposed so far (and he's the guy who exposed Abu Ghriab and Gitmo) and they've asked him to call them on 1/21/09.
So, with NEW shocking evidence suddenly in the press, the idea of launching new investigations into the Bush-Cheney mafia will be very justified. So while Obama's administration is pushing forward the new positive agenda, certain committees in Congress are driving key investigations, hopefully leading to indictments and convictions.
THAT would be the best scenario.
Posted by Anonny at November 5, 2008 04:01 PMOT: Can we dump Pelosi and Reid and get some teeth in the Congress? They are softball pitchers in the Big Leagues!!!...IMHO
Why bother? Let Obama's team lead from here on. Pelosi and Reid have majorities, they can follow nicely.
In the event of filibuster threats, bring in Biden. The Republicans have many exposed Senators coming up for re-election in 2010 (Dems expect to poach another 4-5 seats then) -- between them and the ladies from Maine filibusters should be solvable. That, plus the threat of an Obama national address a la Reagan and the 1981 tax package should keep the filibusterers in line.
Posted by Anonny at November 5, 2008 04:08 PMAmen! This didn't happen after Watergate and we got Cheneyed. Let's not be fooled again. Republicans only play by the rules if they believe they'll be held accountable, and often enough not even then.
Posted by at November 5, 2008 04:47 PMit's not gonna happen.
also- election reform? We'll start talking about it again in about three or four years.
hope is nice, but reality sucks.
Posted by we are the ones at November 5, 2008 04:57 PMIf justice is not sought, then there is no reason to not repeat the corruption and on a larger scale. It's giving permission.
Posted by Judith at November 5, 2008 05:16 PMBut that healing cannot occur, not wholly, unless the crimes that have brought our nation to such a ruinous condition - morally, economically and politically - are investigated thoroughly and a proper penalty imposed.
I agree TOTALLY. Obama acts as if his message of conciliation is new, but Bill Clinton tried it with regards to his trashing Walsh's investigation of Iran/contra, and how did the Repuglies respond? By kicking Bill in the teeth all the way through the impeachment hearings. We, the people, have a right to justice.
Posted by Julie at November 5, 2008 06:20 PMSo let me get this straight
Your 'healing' solution is to basically ban anyone from daring to be a Republican ?
Any Republican should be imprisoned ?
Wow that is a real fair attitude. You call Bush a criminal for letting you spend 8 years attacking him so your solution is to ban free speech of any kind.
Wow
Posted by Tom at November 5, 2008 07:20 PMAny Republican should be imprisoned ?
Just the ones who committed crimes against humanity and the American public. Too bad that covers most of them...but, yes. republi-KKKons should be put in jail. You know, like that "Duke" Cunningham fucktard.
Your 'healing' solution is to basically ban anyone from daring to be a Republican ?
Of course not. (A) Old wealthy white people and (B) idiots have to have something to hold on to. They should just never have power again.
You call Bush a criminal for letting you spend 8 years attacking him so your solution is to ban free speech of any kind.
Something tells me you aren't a wealthy white person. Where does that leave you in the republi-KKKon party? See my second statement for the answer. Take "B". jesus, I hate this grade inflation you idiot assclowns demand.
Posted by phidipides at November 5, 2008 08:13 PMUse all the dirt to get the Republican leadership in line. Then once you've gotten what you want out of them dump all the dirt in the public domain and let the people be outraged. Nothing on your hands and they come down harder with or without a conviction - Chicago Style :).
Posted by allansfca at November 5, 2008 08:21 PMNothing on your hands and they come down harder with or without a conviction - Chicago Style
But there is a certain poetry in the universe. Almost a song...a balance if you will. republi-KKKons voted against extending unemployment benefits and it seems many republi-KKKon staffers will soon be unemployed. I'm grinning like a Cheshire Cat.
Posted by phidipides at November 5, 2008 08:28 PMWell, I'm sure those like Duke Cunningham would support the attitude that we all should just move on. Stevens too. In fact, let's just stop prosecuting anyone and forgive and forget. Yeah, that's the answer.
Posted by Judith at November 6, 2008 12:53 AMJudith,
You might not like it but you share something in common with Tom up above.
You take a specific argument and expand it into a generality.
Nice company you have there.
Posted by snark at November 6, 2008 06:44 AM
New pressure coming from the young Obama multitudes and the new Ron Paul supporters might help force investigations. If we can't do this now, we never will. Don't listen to the lazy naysayers. Let's get to work!
Posted by Kevin at November 6, 2008 09:44 AM