What kind of message does that send to the senators in the Democratic caucus who might bolt when it comes time to vote on a Supreme Court justice, and side with the rethugs? Spineless Reid is incapable of leading. The American people can settle in for two more years (absolute minimum) of congressional gridlock while this Mormon do-nothing whittles away his authority as the most ineffectual majority leader the Senate has ever seen.
Posted by candideinnc at November 18, 2008 09:39 AMIt won't do anything, but it ought to be fun!
Posted by iamcoyote at November 18, 2008 09:40 AMWe have to hold on to Orthodox Joe, it is said, because the Dems need him to get to that filibuster-proof sixty. Invariably it is said without any questioning of the basic premise. Why do we continue that idiotic filibuster in the first place?
The senate is already incredibly undemocratic. Cows in Wyoming have more power in the senate than humans in the more populace states. Add the filibuster and the entire idea of representative democracy is out of the window. And yet we lamely accept. Why? Because it is there.
I said when the filibuster was challenged the last time, (the "nuclear option” remember?) that the Dems should let it go. We’d get more conservative judges, to be sure, but the next time the Dems gained power they would be so glad they did. But they fought to keep that holy piece of crap and here we are.
What would the founders think of it? They’d be aghast that such an obnoxious tradition (and tradition is all it is) could so impede the working of the will of the people. Shoot the damn thing in the heart!
As has been said elsewhere, Obama sent the signal that Joe should be forgiven. The Senate wasn't going off on its own.
Beyond that, Washington is a Band of Brothers - even a convicted felon is welcomed back into the fold. So what did Lieberman ever risk? He knew what he was doing, because he knew his colleagues. And the presidential candidate he campaigned against.
Plus ca change....
Posted by nyc at November 18, 2008 10:17 AMI have family in Conneticut. They are all furious. The sentiment in Conneticut is that he lied to get re-elected and betrayed them. The Independents and Democrats are furious. His only support is Republicans. He is gone in 2010. The Democrats really blew it.
Posted by allansfca at November 18, 2008 10:23 AMY'know, I'm still for going all Jane Hamsher on Lieberman and these fucking enablers. It seems the Senate is just hopeless .. Reid, jesus .. just like nothing's happened, same old same old ..
And Barack seemingly in accord .. well, he's either very adroitly creating some new reality .. or not ..
Posted by Sharkbabe at November 18, 2008 10:31 AMHe is gone in 2010.
I'm sure you meant 2012, when he's up for reelection.
Posted by Seven of Six at November 18, 2008 10:33 AMI'm curious to find out what the Israeli lobby told the Obama camp in order to make sure Joe stayed where he was. To think they had nothing to do with the soft hand slapping of Joe's hand is to be naive.
We may never know....
I'm over it. Obama gave him a pass. They probably mad ehim swear not to stop Democratic progress.
It's almost like Obama just said, "So you campaigned against me. So what? Your clout as a respected voice and representative of the Democratic Party are deminished to the point that it really didn't make a difference. Did it?"
"Get back to work."
Posted by midwestdem at November 18, 2008 11:38 AMParallax - from what I can tell, our entire country and national wealth are enslaved to Israel. 4-evah.
I've never understood this stranglehold. Yeah I've read lots of history and I understand. I get the neocons and Israel as Teh Forward Base of Full Spectrum Dominance over the sand negroes who sit atop (our god given) oil and natural gas.
Still, it all seems to me like the most dumbass shit I ever saw. Oh well, that's just me.
Clear enough that Obama's been given his orders. These malign forces and institutions are, alas, larger and more forceful than "hope."
Or are they? It's up to us.
Posted by Sharkbabe at November 18, 2008 11:47 AM
paradox - now do you want to tell us how you really feel about this? LOL
As much as I am disgusted by this situation, I think that this Bastard should be left to the good people of Connecticut. Slamming him, and he sure as hell deserves it, will make him a the poster child of the Repug party.
Posted by angryman at November 18, 2008 11:52 AMCoyote, thanks for the link.
I hope that everyone who is complaining about Lieberman has called their Senators and registered those complaints.
They will not do a fucking thing that we want - that is truly Progressive - unless they are pushed by us. We are going to have to be involved at a level that we never have before.
We are going to have to pay attention and make sure that everyone that we know is paying attention and then we will have to write and call and email and sign petitions and be active.
I believe that Obama knows that he will not be able to get through any really good Progressive legislation unless the people demand it and that is why he is so big on using technology to notify us of everything. He wants us involved.
I have no idea why they did what they did. I know that a whole lot of Senators came out spoke out about Lieberman losing his chairmanship. I think that he should have lost it. However, I was not in that meeting this morning - I do not know what was said, I do not know what negotiations that were made, I do not know what kind of apologies or groveling occurred...I do not know, I was not there.
Right now, I just have to trust that the people who I sent to DC to do my bidding have my well-being in their hearts when they make these decisions. I have to trust that because I do not have enough energy to deal with it in any other way.
BTW Coyote, I cannot open that link anymore. I got it the first click, now it keeps timing out. Anyone else have that problem?
Posted by Anjha at November 18, 2008 11:54 AMAlso, does anyone know the recall laws in CT?
Posted by Anjha at November 18, 2008 11:57 AMAfter the FISA abomination I refused to donate to the Democratic Party. And now I'm certainly glad I didn't donate to the DSCC.
Posted by gay veteran at November 18, 2008 12:05 PM"There are some (statements) that I made that I wish I had not," Lieberman told reporters. "In the heat of campaigns, that happens to all of us, but I regret that. And now it's time to move on."
What a magnanamous apology! This man just reeks of class! And he was kind enough to declare it is time to move on.
All together now:
"For he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fel-lo-ho, that the Senate won't defy."
These people forget just who elected them into the Witness Protection racket also known as the good ole boyz and girlz club of the Senate. These spineless enablers (including my own Senator)once again capitulated to the worst of worst. ...we are indeed the Charlie Brown of the Democratic Lucy if we believed things would truly be different with essentially the same cast of characters running things in the Senate/House.
I just wish they would stop pretending that they were really going to do something . I mean why go through such a charade...people like me are onto their shenanigans and games...that's all they've ever been about...I think the only thing I missed here was one of those "sternly worded letters" warning and threatening action toward Joe if he didn't apologize and continues it...jeebus what.a.farce.
But on the bright side that powder's dry people!
All I can say isn't time to abolish the Orwellian named Department of Homeland Security anyway.
Harry Reid has got to go!
Posted by emal at November 18, 2008 12:18 PMAnjha, I have no problem with the link. I'm going to try to get the links to ActBlue and the new Defeat Lieberman pledge in there so people have a place to put their anger. Too bad for Jim Martin in GA, looks like he's the one going to pay for Reid's mistake since people are pulling their support.
I read that Patty Murray was standing by Honest Joe's side. They didn't even make him apologize. Funny. Hope it was worth it.
PS, anyone know the best way to ship dog poop?
Posted by iamcoyote at November 18, 2008 12:24 PMHow much powder have those noble senate Dems amassed again?
It should be enough to blow the place sky high at this point, ha-ha. And it's drier than a bird bath in Death Valley.
Why exactly did Dems ever float the story about "Angry Harry" and his Come-to Jeebus (so to speak) meeting with Lieberturd in the first place?
What a party. Please tell me the chances of the senate Repubs pulling such a stunt in similar circumstances.
Posted by euzoius at November 18, 2008 12:28 PMSo we work hard to get Democrats elected to the Senate, worked long and hard to get Obama elected and now that the election's over, the Democratic Senate says we are keeping the man who betrayed us and you.
I have one question for the Senate. Can your be assured that Independent Lieberloser will vote with you 100% of the time? Did you tell him that if he doesn't, what he can expect to happen?
I hope you are not counting on his vote because those of us who know Lieberloser's nature, know he will betray you and us again.
Dean says it's all on Obama. He's the one that asked for mercy for Holy Joe.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 18, 2008 01:36 PMI have been quiet here for awhile, but now I think it is time to write some again.
Last June 21, 2008 at 01:25 PM I wrote on Leftcoaster Comments (scroll down to 01:25 PM to see my comment) about what I expected to happen after the election and it is happening.
No one in the "Democratic" wing of the Authoritarian Surveillance Party will be helping straighten things out.
I'm sorry for those who believed, "Yes We Can" because things are about to get really bleak!
My GOP godbot neighbors today: "How can Obama take on Iran or Korea if he can't take on Joe Lieberman?"
"PS, anyone know the best way to ship dog poop?"
1. Let dog gorge himself at Taco Bell.
2. Mail dog.
Ha! TIKI, that's brilliant. Except my daughter's mighty attached to her puppy. Maybe I'll lure one o' the neighbor's yappy weiner dogs over for a burrito feast.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 18, 2008 02:52 PMI admit it. I wanted to see Lyingman dumped from the caucus in a scathing public ritual.
However, this may -- I emphasize MAY -- be a solid move on Obama's part. We won't be able to judge until at least 3 months from now, and probably longer.
First, do note, as Howard Dean did, that this vote happened only because Obama wanted the outcome. Obama could have dumped Lyingman if he wanted.
This move -- and everything else he's done since the election -- indicate that Obama is focused on one thing starting 1/20/09: Results.
When you judge Obama's actions over the next two months do so with the following two challenges in mind. First, the obvious challenge is that he wants to be extremely effective starting on 1/20. Most recent Presidents have started off very weakly. Obama knows he can't afford that kind of weak start.
His second challenge is equally important, but far more subtle. He has to minimize the damage that Bush will do in these next two months. I believe Obama knows it is critical that he convince the Bush administration that an Obama administration will not seek payback in any form, at least until Bush leaves office and his pardon power is gone.
Therefore, the Lyingman move may be tremendously helpful on two fronts. First, Obama not only creates some chits with Lyingman, but he also builds bridges with the blue dogs and the moderate Republicans in the Senate. There are many ways to get to 60 votes, and Obama will probably need a variety of different Senate coalitions depending on the issue at hand. The more friends he has, the more results he can generate.
But second, he is sending a strong signal to Bush that he's not after payback. Will this be enought to prevent Bush from issuing a (Constitutionally dubious) blanket pardon for all his staff? Will this be enough to prevent Bush from leaving Obama with a "gift", like GHWB did for Clinton with Somalia? Unknown .. but that is clearly something Obama is working to accomplish.
Posted by Anonny at November 18, 2008 03:29 PMcoyote, I'm not totally surprised that Obama was behind this....disappointed sure (just as in Hillary's vote too). Perhaps it was bit of wishful thinking that I thought he'd prefer to just stay out of this flak and let the Dem Senate leadership handle matters internal to the Senate. Oh well.
On the flip side I still don't care for Harry Reid's leadership ...and still think he needs to go as he is part of the status quo I could do without.
Posted by at November 18, 2008 03:46 PMD'oh...me above
Posted by emal at November 18, 2008 03:48 PMSorry you guys didn't get your pound of flesh.
Cause that's what this was all about, right?
Posted by snark at November 18, 2008 05:33 PMSo we work hard to get Democrats elected to the Senate, worked long and hard to get Obama elected and now that the election's over, the Democratic Senate says we are keeping the man who betrayed us and you.
What would Christ do Judith? :)
Posted by snark at November 18, 2008 05:37 PMsnark, you're right. Let's also forgive Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Coulter, Hannity, Etc.
It's a new day in America!
Posted by TIKI AL at November 18, 2008 05:55 PM"There are some (statements) that I made that I wish I had not," Lieberman told reporters. "In the heat of campaigns, that happens to all of us, but I regret that. And now it's time to move on."
Now isn't that just like a person who doesn't accept responsibility. Yeah, I did it, but it was that damn "heat of the campaign" that made me do it. FU Lieberloser! Did Obama have to back track and apologize for his behavior? I think not.
Anonny, I hope you are right, however, experience tells us and should tell Obama that the Republicans and Lieberloser are not going to do anything that helps him or the Democrats in anyway. Jeez, how many examples does one have to have?
Posted by Judith at November 18, 2008 05:59 PMno Accountability equals no Change
don't kick out lieberman
don't hold the torturers responsible
put all the old clintonites back to work
it's too mich like in the rock song lyrics, meet the new boss same as the old boss
Posted by michael72 at November 18, 2008 06:05 PMSilly hour?
Already?
Posted by snark at November 18, 2008 06:07 PM"What would Christ do Judith?"
He would walk into the Senate and condemn the money changers, the liars, the corrupt, and Joe Lieberloser. : )
Posted by Judith at November 18, 2008 06:23 PMYou might be able to cut Obama and Reid some slack on this, except for two things: 1) If Barack's campaign was about anything, it was about "post-partisan" bullshit. The media expects him to deliver, early and often, and he will. 2) The Democratic establishment--including Harry Reid--wasn't shy about making sure Obama got the nomination.
Don't expect any bold leadership from this crew. It's not baked in the cake we were served.
Posted by cygnus at November 18, 2008 06:28 PMGood one, Judith!
Cause that's what this was all about, right?
I'm sure that's a lot of it, snark, but there's also the worry that he'd find a way to sabotage Obama's efforts, as well. Still, Joe's main talent is sucking up to authority, so I get the feeling he'll be a toady to Obama in no time. He's got no shame, he'll do what it takes to save his own ass.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 18, 2008 06:37 PMMcCain is running again in 2010! And to think, before the Obama-snark peace plan I was going to do everything I could to defeat him.
"What would Christ do Judith?"
"He would walk into the Senate and condemn the money changers, the liars, the corrupt, and Joe Lieberloser. : )" And then be nailed to a cross by Senate republicans and displayed by the Senate entrance as a warning to others.
Posted by TIKI AL at November 18, 2008 06:51 PMTIKI, I wouldn't put it past the 'pukes.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 18, 2008 07:11 PMStill, Joe's main talent is sucking up to authority, so I get the feeling he'll be a toady to Obama in no time. He's got no shame, he'll do what it takes to save his own ass.
Yeah, that's what I've been saying. Loserman is in a corner... he owes Obama now, just like Rove and the repukes for the '06' election... he's got to do Obama's bidding... or Obama will just do away with the Dept. of Homeland Security... then what will Loserman chair... nothing.
The fucking rat only knows political survival.
experience tells us and should tell Obama that the Republicans and Lieberloser are not going to do anything that helps him or the Democrats in anyway.
No, but like all politicians they are sure good at helping themselves.
Look, K street has just fired most of their Republican lobbyists and hired Democrats. The Republicans are going to be seriously begging for the campaign contributions that used to be their's for the asking. There are no more favors coming from the White House to loyal Republicans.
Furthermore, the Republican Party is about to go through a period of severe hard line stances. Look for serious primary challenges from groups like Club for Growth to any moderate Republican.
Senators like McCain and Specter have only one chance for survival now, and that's to play the moderate/bipartisan card for all it's worth. Even a "safe seat" Senator like Lugar is worried as his dark red state suddenly went light blue.
So Obama knows these guys aren't going to help his party ... but they will help themselves. Obama just has to make it so that the only way they can help themselves is to help his party.
Let us remember, while he has been correctly been criticized for lack of executive or senior legislative experience, Obama has a deep wealth of a different kind of experience. He knows how to get successful results in multi-party negotiations despite coming from a position of little or no strength. The ONLY way you can do that is to figure out what each party wants and get them to buy into the solution out of their own interest.
That's exactly what he's doing here. If you've studied negotiation theory, his approach is not compromise (which is how Clinton worked) but collaboration -- an approach that yields far superior results.
Posted by Anonny at November 18, 2008 08:52 PMLieberman is McCain's best friend. And it may irk him if his best friend were punished for helping McCain out. The McCain-Obama meeting is very big. Compared to which punishing Lieberman is small potatoes.
If nothing else, the Maverick is a good place to look for the 60th vote and the restarting the gang of 16 (or whatever is left of the GOP members) to reform a centrist bloc.
Like Dean says, the Senate is just honoring Obama's wishes on this matter.
But the Dem asshats who say this is a stab in the back of the left..., well we still have that primary thing goin on over at Jane's place in firedoglake don't we?
Yes we Did, and Yes We WILL!
Posted by kcbill13 at November 18, 2008 09:45 PMLieberman for SecDef!
AIPAC will settle for nothing less and it's obvious Obama is AIPAC's pliant little bitch.
Posted by ran at November 20, 2008 08:30 PM