Is Krugman advocating raising taxes right now?
I think what we hear coming from the Obama people right now sounds pretty balanced. Do not immediately repeal the Bush upper income tax cuts while the economy is in the pooper. Simply allow them to expire as originally intended (cough, cough) in the next few years and provide a small middle income tax break now to aid the economy as well. The only way to stop borrowing right now is to either raise taxes, which will stiffle spending or to drastically cut government spending which will also be a drag on the economy. Obviously, we've got fundimental issues to resolve with our economy once we get through this recession. But the national situation is not entirely analogous to California's situation.
Posted by snark at December 3, 2008 07:29 AMPrisons are 5% of the budget.
Education is where all the abuse is. Cut 25% of the education budget by reducing salaries and eliminating outside of the classroom personnel
And start outsourcing prisons to Mexico.
Posted by Muck at December 3, 2008 07:57 AMSo, Fuck thinks outsourcing even more US jobs is the way to go. Why does Fuck hate America? Oh yeah, cos that's what 'pukes do. Good thing America hates them back, eh?
Posted by iamcoyote at December 3, 2008 08:01 AMIt’s difficult to tell which facet of the tactic is more amazing, that they would still cling to it after everything has gone to hell or that they could actually get away with it.
My vote is for the "get[ting] away with it."
Posted by bartcopfan at December 3, 2008 08:08 AMeliminating outside of the classroom personnel
Damn, that's pretty bold, even from you, Muck-up.
Zero school nurses?
Zero librarians?
Zero hot lunches (or breakfasts)?
Zero bus drivers? (How close to ALL your schools did YOU live?)
Zero security?
Zero sanitation?
Zero counseling?
Zero principals?
Welcome to Muck's private paradise....
Posted by bartcopfan at December 3, 2008 08:15 AM"Do not immediately repeal the Bush upper income tax cuts while the economy is in the pooper."
This is an amazing statement. First it is exactly what McCain was saying in the campaign and Obama was adamant that he would roll back the tax cuts without regard to the economic conditions. Remember the big bank crises and the 700 billion bailout for the banks was going on at the end of the campaign it is not as if things have changed in the countries economic situation since he was just a candidate. Second, if raising taxes would increase revenue to the government as the left has claimed time and again, why shouldn't Obama and his minions be calling for rasing taxes on the rich another 5, 10 or even 25% to allow government to pay for all these bailouts that are going right back to the rich people they want to take it from? This is a clear admission that raising taxes on the rich will result in less revenue to the government. Third, this is just another broken promise from Obama. He is now saying that not only will he not roll back the Bush tax cuts, he is also not going to impose a windfall profit tax on big oil. We will have to wait and see if he raises corporate taxes as he promised or the capital gains tax but it is not likely. Make no mistake, Obama is smart enough to know truth but he couldn't tell you in the campaign because he would have sounded like a Republican.
Watch for a sneak attack on the rest of us with a new gas tax. In the eyes of congress this would be a perfect time as gas prices are going down and it would be easier for the public to absorb. They will be worried that with lower gas prices we will drive more and put more greenhouse gases in the air so they will have to raise the tax to curtail our driving. They will pass it and Obama will sell it. This will be the largest tax increase on the middle class since Clinton did the same in the early 90's.
In California the solution is simple. You have an abundance of wealthy elite liberals. Hollywood alone could bail out your state. All you have to do is have Ron Howard and Barbara Streisand get together with their buddies and have a big telethon. Any citizen is free to send excess money to the government over what they pay in taxes. You simply have to raise money the same way they do it to fund big campaigns. If that doesn't work just take everything over 250k a year from every rich person in California. Let's see the rich liberals put their money where their mouths are.
This is a clear admission that raising taxes on the rich will result in less revenue to the government.
This statement is a clear admission that you're an idiot.
Posted by snark at December 3, 2008 08:30 AMThis statement is a clear admission that you're an idiot.
I was gonna say mentioning Streisand was, but I guess you could choose any phrase in that post and come to the same conclusion. Interesting how losing makes the 'pukes even dumber than winning, isn't it?
Posted by iamcoyote at December 3, 2008 08:38 AM"This is a clear admission that raising taxes on the rich will result in less revenue to the government.
This statement is a clear admission that you're an idiot."
Then explain why Obama has backed off of raising taxes on the rich? Are we not looking at record deficits and debt? Doesn't the government need the money now more than ever? If the logic is that higher taxes mean more revenue then not raising taxes is not logical?
Why has Obama backed off of this campaign promise. Do you remember when McCain said in one of the debates that to raise taxes on anyone in this financial crises is folly? Obama did not agree he stood by his promise to raise taxes on those making more than 250k and raising the capital gains tax to the Clinton levels or 28%. He later backed that down to 20% but now????
Is there a lefty here intelligent enough for a reasonable rebuttal or is name calling all you have?
Ok, manapp99 I am totally confused here – it is still President-elect Obama …. There are no promises kept or not kept yet.
However, Mr. Lame-Duck, I’m only president cause Dad’s friends put me here…. Still can attempt to resolve all the deficit spending – he still has over a month to “act Presidential”
Oh that is right, he is still busy doing all his pardons, so his “buddies” won’t have to do jail time.
Why do you not let President-elect Obama become President Obama – before you start raising claims that he has or has not kept a promise.
Do you remember when McCain said in one of the debates that to raise taxes on anyone in this financial crises is folly?
Yep. McFucktard is wrong and so is Obama.
They are going on the assumption from the data of the 1930's that showed the tax increase at that time had no effect. The problem then was the Feds were after a balanced budget instead of addressing the real issue, which was lack of consumer spending. Of course, any interested person would know that the tax increase back then took the low end marginal tax rate from 1.5% to 4% and the top end tax rate from 25% to 63%. I sure as shit wish I only paid 4%.
Is there a lefty here intelligent enough for a reasonable rebuttal or is name calling all you have?
I've noticed many here can do both. It depends on the republi-KKKon making the argument. You seem to be quite full of what Obama will do rather than addressing what The Mad King, idiot son of George the Weak and Bar the Drunk, did do.
The whole lot of you people are assclowns. We're running 16% unemployment and another 20% marginal employment, wages have shrunk, the economy is on the verge of a major collapse, our infrastructure is crumbling, we have two ground wars, military spending will be $1.4 trillion, corporate welfare will be $1.2 trillion...and all of that is before we consider the $500 billion to hedge fund managers last year and the $7 trillion in guarantees and $100's of billions to financial institutions this year...and what do assclowns like you and Muck bitch about? The $129 billion TOTAL that gets spent on everything you call "welfare". You know what I mean. Education, housing, Foodstamps, TANF, etc.
And how are you assclowns addressing the current problem? Cutting Medicaid payments so that people in poverty have to pay more for their healthcare. God damnit, you people are a fucking treat!
Without a doubt the republi-KKKon party is the party of rich old white fucks and idiots like you and Muck. You guys take it directly in the ass from your party and you're still bending over for more!
Posted by phidipides at December 3, 2008 10:09 AMIsn't that sweet? Even the trolls can't wait for a real man to take the white house, now that their dry drunk POS can't get it up for 'em any more. They miss the reaming, p-dip, you got that one right.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 3, 2008 10:14 AMThen explain why Obama has backed off of raising taxes on the rich? Are we not looking at record deficits and debt? Doesn't the government need the money now more than ever? If the logic is that higher taxes mean more revenue then not raising taxes is not logical?
Only if you live in a universe where tax revenues are the only thing you are concerned about. That or you have your head completely up your ass.
That or you have your head completely up your ass.
Poor thing, we tried to dumb it down to match his intelligence like he asked, but he just keeps getting angrier and angrier. I guess it's frustrating to be so stupid.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 3, 2008 10:32 AMCa is seeing a net outflow of wealthy people. Many of my friends have left already and I will moving shortly. I guess the state workers and strawberry pickers will have to figure out how to fund their progressive liberal paradise.
Posted by Muck at December 3, 2008 12:32 PMThat's the spirit Muck!
Country First
Wasn't that the rally cry?
Posted by snark at December 3, 2008 12:41 PMAw, did Fuck lose all his shit in the market? Now he's gonna run away like the wuss that he is. Scared of the treehuggers! Can you believe it? Of course we've always known 'pukes are tough talkers and pussies underneath. Oh, and quitters. Soon as it gets a bit tough - run away, run away!! Too chicken to go to wars they start, too pussified to deal with financial problems they created, and too whiny and stupid to think of anything but escape. Buh-bye, Fuck, enjoy your exile. CA's better without you.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 3, 2008 12:52 PMMany of my friends have left already and I will moving shortly.
That's code for muck losing his job!
Posted by Seven of Six at December 3, 2008 12:56 PMNow that Champ Piss has proven that a republican can win a run off in the blue state of Georgia with the help of rock star "future of the party" Palin, the trolls seem to drool and vomit bile with a newfound swaggar.
Posted by TIKI AL at December 3, 2008 12:58 PMAww, muck sounds bitter. He and all his "wealthy friends" are clearing out (for WY or WVa?) Maybe the corn belt!
Did you take a loss on your homestead? Find a qualified buyer yet? Good luck!
Mancrap00 has been posting the idiocy about tax increases on the rich lessening revenue for weeks now and it's good to see him lambasted on it.
These wingnuts have so poisoned their brains with right wing sewage ("tax cuts raise gub'mint revenue!") that they don't even know that such malarkey has been debunked by actual economists of every stripe---only Rusbbo and Grover Norquist keep vomitting this worthless prattle and mancrapp00 is terrified that he'll lose his little world of wingnut bubble-headism via the "fairness doctrine". LOL.
Relax, mancrapper, once you're out in the fresh air everything will feel a lot better! Repeat after me: Fairness doctrine, fairness doctrine, fairness doctrine.......
Posted by euzoius at December 3, 2008 01:06 PMMuck: Now that Arizona has a GOP trifecta government it should be safe for you and what's left of your money to have your "time out" here.
You could look into bidding on the "10 commandments held by peeps riding dinosaurs" statues that will be erected at the entrance to all public buildings.
Posted by TIKI AL at December 3, 2008 01:26 PMTaxes are too high in CA. That's why folks and businesses are leaving.
I like Nevada. Some friends jjust moved to South Dakota and they're wintering in Arizona.
Posted by Muck at December 3, 2008 01:47 PMGood gawd TLC is dripping in the stupid today.
What brought 'em out?
Oh, it is all for the best, it was getting a little boring, wasn't it?
Posted by Anjha at December 3, 2008 02:29 PMMany of my friends have left already and I will moving shortly.
Not bad for a guy who lives in Iowa. So you're going to move to CA so you can move away to spite CA. Neat trick.
Posted by phidipides at December 3, 2008 02:44 PMRelax, mancrapper, once you're out in the fresh air everything will feel a lot better! Repeat after me: Fairness doctrine, fairness doctrine, fairness doctrine.......
Oh man, that made my sides hurt... ROFLMAO!!
You are sick euzoius!!
Posted by Seven of Six at December 3, 2008 03:42 PMObama is backing off his tax increase promise from his campaign for one reason, it's politically prudent to do so. He can push through a middle class tax without sacrifice. Then he simply waits for Bush's cuts to expire. No risk of political capital, which he surely will need to spend for his fuel standards and alternate fuel programs.
Posted by Radix at December 3, 2008 04:39 PMApologies to Muck.
In the past I've accused you to living in a bubble about 4 feet in diameter. I was remiss. It is now abundantly clear that your bubble is but a mere 2 feet.
Seriously, the right's obsession with oversimplification and anti-intellectualism has created this enormous disconnect when it comes to causal relationships. It really is scary to see the bizarre, twisted logic that goes into justifications for their positions. Conservatives don't see how our accepted societal constructs create an environment for them to succeed. Yet they are unwilling to support those rules that has allowed them to succeed.
Muck here is a hint, the world does not function in an exclusively "A = B" format.
Just listening to Tom Hartmann and he painted a really poignant picture. "History has proven it time and time again. When you let people like this (Muck, Bush, Norquist) have their way, do you know what society ends up looking like? Go read Dickens' 'A Christmas Carol'.
They war on the middle class and then the laugh and point from their perches and yell "Got mine bitches! Its your own damned fault! Haaahhaha!" Its pathological.
Posted by Simp at December 4, 2008 09:33 AMPrisons are 5% of the budget.
Education is where all the abuse is. Cut 25% of the education budget by reducing salaries and eliminating outside of the classroom personnel
And start outsourcing prisons to Mexico.
Posted by Muck at December 3, 2008 07:57 AM
I would say that excessive executive compensation and perks, excessive guaranteed retirement packages for the upper echelon corpo-weasels, and letting them get away with all of their illegal activities during the Republican't junta's reign would be where a big source of abuse. And that it should be focused on as one of the places to get back some of the revenue that the Republican'ts have stolen over the past eight plus years.
All of those rich arseholes, er, friends, of yours are moving out of Kully-Fornia, Fuck? Are the federal taxes (which, after all, are the ones that Obama will be able to exert influence over once he's inaugurated) going to be lower in another state?
Funny how the Republican'ts in the Kully-Fornia state legislature, and the Gropenfuhrer, seem to be completely left out of your biased Republican't spin on the situation. Nope - it's all the fault of the guy who hasn't even got a chance to do anything yet.
By the way, what happened again when it was a Democratic CA governor that had problems balancing the budget? Oh yeah - they recalled his a$$. Funny, Fuck, you don't seem to be nearly as eager to push that as a solution - now that's it's a clueless incompetant Republican't idiot who's gubernating.
Smarter brain-dead Republican't Putsch fellators, please...
Posted by (: Tom :) at December 4, 2008 11:54 AM