Turkana:
I do not think any US president can say or do something that will completely impartial in case of Israel and Palestine. The jewish lobby will make sure that he will not get any support in the congress. President Carter has stated that several times and he got attacked when he pointed out that Isreali behavior in the occupied terrotaries is akin to apartheid.
Recently Hillary got criticism from jewish lobby when she mentioned that Israel is ignoring human rights by blockading Gaza and preventing humaniterian aid to go through.
As long as policy towards Israel matters in US elections, the status quo will remain.
Posted by suresh at March 9, 2009 01:28 PMHamas and Hezbollah are organic responses to an overtly expansionist Israel, supported unconditionally by the US in whatever brutality Israel chooses to adopt. When the Hamas charter was created, Israel's (permanent) occupation was already over 20 years old. Now, it's over 40 years old--with no end in sight, which was the plan all along.
The idea that Hamas/Hezbollah are 100% "illegitimate" and must be wholly ignored else terrorism be "rewarded" is just more terrible "advice" from our great ally, who has played us for chumps and fools for decades now. Israel's refusal to recognize Hamas after it won the elections WE demanded in 2006 as the "new way forward" is simply comic, although obviously in the dark comedy sense. Could Bush have been any more weak and feeble?
At this point, the two state solution is dead in all parties minds except the day late/dollar short US of A. There's no "solution" now, certainly nothing the hated Israel-apologist US can do. Running around looking for "solutions" which neither side has the slightest interest in is foolish.
The best policy would be for us to cut our massive losses in the region by cutting ALL aid to the expansionist nationalist apartheid state of Israel. Back away from them and their lunatic expansionism and illegal colonial settlements. They have shit their bed a hundred times over, misleading us at every turn, and there's no reason for us to be working to clean their filthy sheets anymore.
Posted by euzoius at March 9, 2009 01:30 PMHow did Begin get rewarded?
Euz, at "At this point...", we agree. "Running around looking for "solutions" which neither side has the slightest interest in is foolish."
But we divide, I feel we need to stick with our friends the Israeli's.
Posted by peter at March 9, 2009 02:02 PMYou know the old saying, peter--"with friends like them...",etc, etc.
Posted by euzoius at March 9, 2009 02:10 PMsuresh,
as a jew, i don't like reading aipac or other right wing organizations referred to as the "jewish lobby." they do not represent the opinion of the majority of american jews, and have nothing to do with the religion.
Posted by Turkana at March 9, 2009 02:20 PMTurkana, Zionism has little to do with the religion of Judaism. If I were a religious Jew, I'd be horrified to think that it did.
I hope Obama will manage to be pragmatic about Israel, but I'm hardly encouraged by his having picked a Chief-of Staff who's the son of an Irgun terrorist.
you may not like the term "the jewish lobby", but that's what you got. Is there another to group contradict "the lobby". They've done a mighty job stating that they represent the jewish people....and for better or for worse, they do...until something or some other group comes along to show the public how nuts they are.
um. no, parallax, they don't represent the jewish people. just because they're the loudest, that doesn't mean they represent the majority. but thanks for exposing yourself.
Posted by Turkana at March 9, 2009 10:51 PMYou can't dismiss the problem as easily as that, Turkana. George Bush didn't represent the whole of the American people, but it's in large part he and his bunch who have made America so unpopular over the last few years. One would imgine - and hope - that Hitler didn't represent the attitudes of all the German people, but those people allowed the Nazi nightmare to grow and explode. Ever since the beginning of Israel as an entity, it has been the Zionist version of things which has been accepted throughout much of the world, and the Zionist agenda which has driven American policy (often simply to win votes in domestic elections). When someone like Alfred Lilienthal did stand up and say "These people don't represent me or all Jews, what sort of reception did he get?
Posted by Colin at March 9, 2009 11:35 PMaipac is no more the "jewish lobby" than the gop was the "american party," during bush. you need to learn a little about logic. and about defining an entire people by an extreme minority.
Posted by Turkana at March 9, 2009 11:55 PMTurkana, I understand where you're coming from....aipac is the loudest, hence the percepcion that they represent the majory of jews.
My argument follows in the same line as that posted by Colin. you may not like it, but the rest of the nation sees it that way....(yes, I know that you and other educated people dont).
Also, "exposing myself?? Chill out a bit.
Parallax, using the term "Jewish lobby" does in fact expose you, at best as a sloppy thinker, and at worst, as a bigot. Aipac is no more the "Jewish lobby" than Al Qaeda is the "Muslim terror network." If you are a non-bigot who has simply not thought the matter through, I'd urge you to reconsider your phraseology.