Interesting and thorough (as usual). Imagine the minority ruling class actually using religion cynically to manipulate the masses to enhance their authoritarian power structure...feels and sounds a bit familiar.
PS. I'm often left in awe of your knowledge base and obvious extensive research abilities...where do you find the time to do this type of thing(you don't have to respond)...just wanted to mention it.
Posted by emal at May 5, 2009 10:08 AMEriposte:
Very comprehensive article. You have made some valid points about secularism in India and current interest towards Hindutva. I still believe that the difference of majority religions, Hinduism (in India) and Islam(in Pakistan) has lot to do with the political structure of these countries.
Since Hinduism is an all inclusive religion, i.e. it does not claim that only way to go to heaven is through Hinduism and accepts that there are several paths (religions) that can make you achieve the ultimate eternity, it is easier for Hindus to accept a concept of secularism and also of democracy. However, Islam demands complete surrender to Allah (GOD) and is more of a leader (prophet)worshiper religion. That is why when a cartoon about Mohammad appears in Danish newspaper, it gets muslims all over the world very angree and they riot. This complete surrender to Allah does not fair well with democracy. Also the claim that only Muslims can go to heaven and all other Kafirs (non-muslims) will go to hell, does not promote secularism.
Now christianity had similar thinking during the middle ages. The industrial age brought christianity out of it to its modern all inclusive form. However, we do see from the religious rights in this country some what similar thinking. The Europeons are completely transformed from religious bigotary and that is why in Catholic Spain, France, or Portugal, abortion is legal and is not a political issue.
All religions have been conservative at one time or another. They have all come to be more inclusive, thanks to the technology and science. However, Islam has still remained in the middle ages. That is why this resistance against educating women, insisting on middle-age type of punishments for crimes committed, etc. Of all the muslim countries in the world, there are only two countries that have real democracy. Turkey and Indonesia. In Turkey this was achieved by downsizing Isamic influence by Attaturk who himself was a dictator but was convinced of having democracy for Turkey. As for Indonesia, the Indonesian muslims are closer to Hindus and do participate in the Hindu traditions. They are not as conservative as the muslims in the middle east.
If you look into Indian history, what we are seeing today of Taliban, was there in those days also. There has been no change in the mindset. That is the unfortunate thing about how a religion can keep people in permanent state of rage against people who have different way of life or belief. Only way out of it is for muslims to recognize it and try to reduce religious influence and increase education among their masses starting with empowering their women. That will require interpretation Koran per todays ideas. That is where I do not feel very optimistic that it can happen.
Posted by suresh at May 5, 2009 11:13 AMEmal,
Thanks. Good question though - when do I find the time? :-) Well, it's usually an occasional weekend day or weeknight in between a rather busy work schedule. I generally read a fair amount every chance I get (especially during flights) - and I've realized that luckily for me, researching and writing tend to be things that I can do fairly quickly when I get an opening now and then.
Posted by eriposte at May 5, 2009 06:40 PMSuresh,
I agree with you in part that Hinduism is a very inclusive religion - one that even accepts atheists into its fold. That said, the people who get all worked up about insults to their religion are common across religions. I've seen examples of ultra-conservative Hindus and Muslims rioting or generally causing havoc at the slightest perceived insult to their belief system. Plus, India has the world's second largest Muslim population and the vast majority of those Muslims have been participating in non-violent fashion in Indian democracy since 1947 (you also mention Indonesia and Turkey - good examples). So, I wouldn't generalize too much on Muslims specifically.
The issue is that in a number of countries ultra-conservative practitioners and corrupt leaders have distorted Islam and given the religion a bad name. There needs to be a global reformist movement within the Muslim community to take Islam back from the ideologues. It's not so much that Islam needs to be brought to the 21st century and out of the Middle Ages. The people in these countries who have given Islam a bad name by doing very bad things using Islam as a justification need to be brought into the 21st century. I wouldn't blame Islam when there are in fact large Islamic populations in the world (see above) that have been moderate and reasonably tolerant for a long time.
Posted by eriposte at May 5, 2009 06:55 PMI really liked your summary of why India & Pakistan turned out so differently even though they had many prepartition similarities.
I think you did a good job.
Posted by tenacitus at May 18, 2009 08:26 AM