Some of those detainees were just nobodies handed over to the coalition forces for rewards.
Imagine being innocent but getting waterboarded until you confess, then imprisoned without trial. If they didn't hate America before, they do now.
Posted by bugman at June 3, 2009 12:33 AMThe force-feeding scene in the movie "Iron Angels" about suffragettes was particularly gruesome. I expect nothing less from Cheney's mob.
Posted by at June 3, 2009 05:47 AMOops, "Iron Jawed Angels" that is.
Posted by at June 3, 2009 05:48 AMAs a legal and political mess to clean up, this is about as bad as it gets.
And it's (at best) just energy and time away from the million and one other things that desperately need attention.
All while around 48% of the population now "approve" of the various torture techniques of Bushco, and gaze stupidly as conservative talking heads blather that our torture wasn't nearly as bad as the Gestapo and the NKVD and Saddam.
Great company, but from what I've read, I seriously can't tell the difference. Seems like Bushco used standard 20th authoritarian state torture tactics to me, with the more gruesome genital mutilation cases being farmed out to some of our ME "buddies". Frankly, that's worse than Hitler and Stalin.
The fact that the GOoP monsters have calculated that it's a winning plan to vigorously defend their torture regime, and that the 24/7 positive coverage by the Noise Machine has significantly moved public opinion their way, and against closing Gitmo, is yet more evidence that we as a nation have entered a comatose state where we can't reform ourselves. A huge segment of the populace is literally brain dead, and dead losses as "citizens".
The Dems already seem completety on the defensive to me, doing nothing but reacting to the GOoP talking points being blatted wholesale 24/7 by the corporate press and Noise Machine. Or worse, AGREEING with the talking points, as they bravely did on the Gitmo "funding" scandal. That's no route to reform.
I fear we took over the government to find that it had been placed in a permanent vegetative state by Bushco, with the Dem Congress pissing itself, and most of the public having been turned into abject morons. And the Noise Machine blares on......
Posted by euzoius at June 3, 2009 07:07 AMThe momentum that 8 years of Bushco "War on Terror" authoritarian style government has imparted to the juggernaut that is our national consciousness is not easily counteracted. I understand the frustration that many feel with the perceived disappointment in the Obama Administration but I don't share it. Nothing, or no one, is going to "fix" this country overnight. The sooner one disabuses themselves of that notion the better. Obama, and the Dems, have got to conduct themselves in a way that is not going to alienate them from so much of the populus that they completely kill their chances of fixing anything. I know compromise is a dirty word but the circumstances the country finds itself in dictate it. Not compromise with the Congressional Reps but compromise with the national psyche. Polls that show 48% of the American people support torture sometimes bear this out.
Posted by snark at June 3, 2009 07:58 AMIf the true depravity and extent of the sexual torture experienced by detainees in US custody were ever widely publicized, including the videos and pictures, those opinion polls would would swing to the anti-torture position dramatically.
Perhaps that is why we will never see them. It is not military personnel who would be put at increased risk from militant jihadists, it is the politicians who enabled these atrocities who would suffer the rath of an informed, horrified and truly disgusted American populace.
Posted by brisa at June 3, 2009 10:06 AMCon permisso....that would be "suffer the wrath".
Posted by brisa at June 3, 2009 10:10 AM...an informed, horrified and truly disgusted American populace.
I think you overestimate the American public. While many would admit to being shocked by the details it would not necessarily trump their fear. An unpalatable but necessary evil many would say.
Posted by snark at June 3, 2009 10:15 AMif we ever get photos of jihadists or Taliban torturing capturerd GI's somewhere in Afghanistan, then you'll see the American people go berserk. In short, as long as we torture the "bad guys" its OK. Show them torturing us, and they'll be "sadistic, vile, horrid, filthy animals".
Posted by T2 at June 3, 2009 11:23 AMHey, didn't bloggers on the right just say:
...Guantanamo bay prison facility is as far as prison's go, a nice place to be. Any maximum security facility inside the US is far worse, far more restricting and far more depressing. People are not being tortured in Guantanamo, high value are being questioned and occasionally being made to feel uncomfortable. 99.9% of the time they are being treated with respect and dignity because that kind of interrogation works best....
It sounds like this disgruntled Guantanamo prisoner guy was so taken aback by the respect and dignity of the place that he had to kill himself. And I thought it was only the idiots on the right who took respect and dignity to be a threat!
If the true depravity and extent of the sexual torture experienced by detainees...
Hey, just replace "detainee" with "children of the congregation" and you could easily be talking about the practices of many religious leaders in the United States.
Posted by phidipides at June 3, 2009 11:47 AM"would swing to the anti-torture position dramatically"
Sorry, but I just can't for the life of me see that happening. There are verbal descriptions of the photos out there already, it has no effect.
Comatose. As T2 says, when we torture, it was clearly necessary and appropriate, muslim terrorists do it, they're subhuman animals.
I assume others saw the report that said Maliki encouraged US officials that the latest round of abuse/torture photos not be released as he claimed "Bagdahd would burn" and Iraq violence would increase if they were.
This is now being bandied about as the latest reason for Obama to drag the photo case out, and if that fails to simply retroactively change the law, which a new Lindsay Graham-Joe Lieberturd (it's always Lieberturd) bill would accomplish. T In fact, it already passed the senate, I think.
The law's only purpose is to state that photos taken of Iraqi detainees during a particular time period are not subject to release if the DefSec says so. This is about the only law our comatose congress can enact.
Posted by euzoius at June 3, 2009 12:23 PMSnark, I'll agree with your comment at 7:58. I liked your word "disabuses". That's a nice word.
Ah the pained Euz again. Rendition being practiced by the Obama administration right now in Afghanistan and other places(see Bagram(?) AFB). Wash Post articles pointing out the re-opening of overseas detention facilities even as our president "keeps" his campaign promise to shutter Gitmo. "Change" you can believe in? Interesting article out there about SecDef Gates being the only cabinet member better than mediocre. Our president isn't going to let any of those pictures out. AG Holder will not let any out either. They both will continue thse "state secrets" references, from now on. Obama has all the keys folks. He doesn't need you any more.
Oh miracle of miracles, Phid made it through a post without any "KKK's". Are you feeling alright Phid? That had to hurt...
And is hell freezing over? Newt now liking the Sotomayer nomination? Rush following????
Posted by peter at June 3, 2009 02:10 PMPetertroll, hell will freeze over when you leave TLC, and never return.
Posted by T2 at June 3, 2009 02:23 PMTerrorist committed suicide.....
Yawn.
But do not worry Lefties. The Obama ordered that Club Gitmo be closed at the end of the year.
Right.
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by I Did Not Vote For The Unicorn Rider at June 3, 2009 02:47 PMInteresting article out there about SecDef Gates being the only cabinet member better than mediocre.
It would stand to reason, since he is the only cabinet member that has a full compliment of personnel.
Terrorist committed suicide.....
Suspected enemy combatant teabagger. Remember the guy never got a trial, thus he was never convicted of anything... as usual you're talking shit.
The Obama ordered that Club Gitmo be closed at the end of the year.
He has until Jan. 20th, 2010.
Posted by Seven of Six at June 3, 2009 07:29 PMBased on his statement, [Rear Adm. Harry] Harris is insane and a menace to humanity. Is this what a place like Gitmo does to the captors or was he like that before going there?
Posted by DeanOR at June 3, 2009 08:22 PMsnark,
It isn't the Obama Admin it's Congress. The Dems there are mostly weak, and about the sorriest bunch of tactical or strategic fighters as you can find.
Maddow was talking to Ana Marie Cox tonight about why the Goppers are being such vociferous assholes attacking Sotomayor. Neither one seemed to see that the reason is not about Sotomayor, but to try to force OBama and the idiots in the Senate to not pick anyone too liberal.
"Look how out of control they are over this tremendously qualified woman, replacing a moderate liberal Justice Souter. What will they do if Obama has to replace Scalia? We better be careful who we pick, or else the Gopper thugs will be mean to us."
Cox and Maddow also forget, these are Republicans, they don't care about what people think or say about them, they aren't interested in governing, they just want the power to steal more wealth from anybody who has some. So long as you approach them like rational actors, you will get burned.
That's Obama's big mistake, trying to heal the wound in the body politic, when he needs to be removing the cancerous tumor that is the gop, and their ignorant, hateful, backstabbing, traitorous, gutless little trolls.
Posted by Duckman GR at June 3, 2009 11:31 PMknown right wing idiot bagel boy chokes on pretzel and croaks...peterturd instantly blames lib'ruls...
yawn
regards to all you troll asswipes...
Posted by headxray at June 4, 2009 02:05 AM