WHAM! Winning Hearts And Minds. That's the way we did it in Vietnam, too.
It's simply amazing to me that we are following the Russians by invading and trying to "pacify" Afghanistan. Too bad that Obama doesn't pull Charlie Wilson in to advise on Afghanistan.
Posted by mike at June 22, 2009 07:14 AMThe tactics of the terrorists are to surround themselves with civilians. The civilians are too afraid to do otherwise. (This is also happening in Pakistan with Pakistani Army). Therefore when we attack locations where terrorists are hiding, we will always have civilian casualities.Unless we find a way to separate bad guys from women and children, I am afraid we will always be criticized as killing women and children.
Posted by suresh at June 22, 2009 07:22 AMWe were attacked by al qaeda, which was supported (sort of) by the Afghan Taliban, which was supported by Pakistan intelligence.
We now seem to have given up on al qaeda---when's the last intelligence report released on them?---and moved the "Taliban" (both Afg and Pak versions) into new Super Evildoer status, though they seem not to care a whit about America, have never attacked us, and would simply like to have the world's poorest areas live exactly as they lived in 1001 AD, bobbing on a prayer rug. Fine, that's someone else's battle, sorry. They aren't going to "take over" Pakistan and its nukes. We can pay Pakistan directly to prevent that.
But we are dyed in the wool militarists, with a huge military-corporate complex to "support". Thus we strain for reasons (however dubious or outright false) to invade and occupy countries (now social movements!) on the other side of the globe--which never attacked us---and then pigheadedly persist in the "operation" because anything else is "Defeat and Dishonor!!", always playing upon insecure male fears of humiliation and degradation.
There can be no progress in a nation weighed down by blind militarism. The idea that we are "reducing" defense (i.e offensive) costs materially by (slowly) leaving Iraq while we ramp up an ever hotter war in Afghanistan (and a "secret" war in Pak!) is comic.
Posted by euzoius at June 22, 2009 07:29 AMSuresh, bullshit!
The tactics of the terrorists are to surround themselves with civilians.
This is a century-old line used for ducking responsibility for when one force kills or wounds civilians or when the 'insurgents' are just too gosh darned tough to root out. We Americans have nasty habit of hauling it out when we bomb some guys house or factory and demolish the neighborhood to boot.
When is it going to get through those fat heads that 'terrorists' ARE civilians? They do not spring full-flower from the heads of imams, priests, communists or fascist figureheads. They are children, husbands, fathers and even *gasp!* daughters. They often have full-time jobs supporting their families or causes (when not shooting or doing other violent acts).
Hell, even formal armies used to be garrisoned within cities, because they need city services and supply to maintain themselves, while ostensibly protecting the city or town. It's only within the modern internal combustion era and 'precise munitions' that we have these stupid ideas that 'armies should be removed from civilian populations' crap. And it's still crap because I can bet that excluding projects of serious secrecy or security, just about every American base or outpost has grown a quite sizable civilian population nearby because of the opportunities of commerce or because of families.
Don't give us this crap about "terrorists purposely hiding within innocent civilian populations", What do you think they're going to do, always hide in a remote training camp in the Hindu Kush, videotaping their exercises?
As terrorists are civilians, what we or any power needs to do in order to capture or eliminate terror is to do POLICING, not military operations. It's expensive, its dirty, its slow, & the cops also have a habit of shooting the wrong people on occasion as well, but it's far less lethal to the overall populations of the areas we're trying to secure.
Do not worry little fellow. Turn that frown upside down! The Obama will dismantle the US military soon enough. He is planning on replacing it with a kinder, gentler, hope-n-changiness:
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
Barack Obama, Colorado Springs, CO, July 2, 2008
I wonder if this new "civilian national security force" will be riding motorcycles like those fellows in Iran?
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Just Visiting The Fevered Swamps at June 22, 2009 10:49 AMUnbelievable...
...and now he has lost Afghanistan?
What more can happen to this vision of Hope and Change?
There are so many opportunities to use the words "lost" and "lose" here.
Major portions U S auto manufacturing industry.. lost in 153 days.
Millions of jobs...lost.
Billions of "Stimulus Dollars"...lost..and never to produce a job.
Faith of the U.S taxpayers...lost
Security gains and stability in Iraq. Potentially lost.
Faith of the Iranian freedom fighters for support from Mr Obama. Lost
Faith of the Nation of Israel and it's people... Lost
North Korea.. sensing a patsy in charge..has seemingly lost it's respect for U S leadership.
Health care reform..losing that opportunity on a daily basis and losing support from his own party.
"Global Warming" and "Climate Change"...failing dramatically..another opportunity lost if you of that persuasion..most are not, hence the failure.
Democrats with a date with the voters in November 2010 losing their allegiance on a daily basis with this White House. This will begin to be much more apparent.
He has lost some of the gay vote and support? How could that be? Where do they go?
N.O.W (the racist liberal women's group) elects a middle age white woman and the expense of a young black lady.
A lost opportunity but Mr Obama was not responsible for that...but it is telling....but who really cares who they elect..read it in the paper..just threw it in.
The ability to blame all of this and much more to come on George Bush....(that doesn't work anymore)....also lost.
All of this in 6 months.
"Hope and Change" has evolved to smoke and mirrors.....ultimately to total failure.
...but I am pretty sure you already know that.
redsneakers,
Wow. Great post! I wish that I had written it. (Unfortunately, I would not be able to bring your sense of disappointment: I did not vote for the hope-n-change.)
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Just Visiting The Fevered Swamps at June 22, 2009 12:14 PM...and now he has lost Afghanistan?
No. The Mad King, idiot son of George, did that when he said Osama didn't matter and we needed to go after the weapons of mass...uhhh, Saddam is a bad ma...uhhh, bringing them Democ...uhhh, getting rid of the Al Qaeda terriers in Iraq!! Remember? You should. "Freedom Frys", or some such bullshit you worthless wastes of DNA came up with.
Now, don't you and Bags have a meeting you need to attend? Be sure to iron your pointy white cap and carry a Bic in case your matches get wet and you can't get the cross lit.
Posted by phidipides at June 22, 2009 01:42 PMWow. Great post! I wish that I had written it.
Sock puppetry at its finest, folks.
Posted by idiosynchronic at June 22, 2009 02:14 PMBags
My wish is to not have to write such things about "leadership" in the United States. My "sense of disappointment" does not come from my vote. My disappointment comes from what you see resulting because of who we thought we elected and the direction we are being "led".. I come from a family of risk takers... and business people, job suppliers if you will, with a great desire to succeed and watch others succeed with you. That desire is, for the most part instilled by the integrity and character and of the will to succeed needed in military service to the country of many accumulated years..of which my son and daughter now participate. My disappointment is the result of watching a president who has disdain for the the business world that produces wealth for the people of the United States.. if you so choose to work for it.. regardless of your race or creed...and his disdain for the military that provides and secures our freedoms and freedom for people around the world. My sense of disappointment is real in that regard
Posted by redsneakers at June 22, 2009 02:41 PM"Now, don't you and Bags have a meeting you need to attend? Be sure to iron your pointy white cap and carry a Bic in case your matches get wet and you can't get the cross lit."
I do not know what redsneakers schedule is, but I have been asked to travel to West Virginia with my "pointy white cap" and keep company with Senator Byrd, an Exalted Cyclops in the KKK and a member of the Democratic Party.
"Sock puppetry at its finest, folks."
No sock puppetry here.
redsneakers, I mis-understood your dissapointment. I apologize for the comment.
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Just Visiting The Fevered Swamps at June 22, 2009 02:50 PMWow. Great post! I wish that I had written it.
Talk about aiming low! But each to his ability, I guess. Thank goodness the American people have rejected these morons, mainly because they're so incomprehensible. At this point, it's like twin-speak, innit? Or better yet, speaking in tongues - Ooogity boogity boo!
Oh, and paradox - Afghanistan was lost the day Bush decided to go in there.
Hey, redface, you wanna give us some proof of Obama's "disdain" for the military? Cos, really, you're a lying douche about everything else, how about some links to your assertions? And wingnut welfare recipients don't count! You do know, if you don't link, it didn't happen, don't you?
Posted by Twinky P* at June 22, 2009 02:55 PMI can never figure out why the military command can't understand that their primary role in counter-insurgency is not to kill the bad guys but to make sure the good guys and the non-committed want to stick with our side. The latter often just want to be left alone, more than anything else, which is not so different from what an ordinary American might want. I can't understand why the military doesn't crank up some UAVs to not just launch missiles but to make known to the locals that we know suspected terrorists are hiding in their midst and that they need to urge the terrorists to move someplace else, far, far away. Keep that eye in the sky prominently looking at the locals pressing them to do the right thing. Fear is often times a much better motivator than outright killing, as we've often seen.
Posted by PrahaPartizan at June 22, 2009 02:57 PM...but I have been asked to travel to West Virginia with my "pointy white cap" and keep company with Senator Byrd.
Then you can travel to Kentucky and meet with Geoff Davis.
Posted by phidipides at June 22, 2009 03:22 PMphidipides,
You forgot the most imporatant part (viz Senator Byrd):
...an Exalted Cyclops in the KKK and a member of the Democratic Party.
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Just Visiting The Fevered Swamps at June 22, 2009 03:35 PM...but I have been asked to travel to West Virginia with my "pointy white cap" and keep company with Senator Byrd.
And then you and 'Macaca' Allen can get together discuss your similar political and social views.
Posted by phidipides at June 22, 2009 03:59 PM"And then you and 'Macaca' Allen can get together discuss your similar political and social views."
Will do.
But before that I have an appointment with Reverend Wright, his follower (The Obama), and a certain "wise Latina woman."
Regards,
Bagley
Posted by Just Visiting The Fevered Swamps at June 22, 2009 04:37 PMWill do.
Then you and McCain can karaoke "Bomb Iran" after a rousing discussion of how the current Iranian situation is just like republi-KKKons tea bagging each other...what with the similar persecution you and the Iranians have experienced...and all...
Posted by phidipides at June 22, 2009 04:49 PMIran?
No time.
I am going out for ice cream.
Regards,
Bagley
Ah Doxie, this war isn't lost. Give the president a chance won't you. He's new in this job. He's only been there what, five or six months. He'll do just fine.
Now healthcare and cap and trade may be lost. That 800 billion dollar "stimulus" bill killed off any chance to get any of the other goodies passed. Priorities got the cart before the horse. Three, now two Republican senators, killed all chances of those others passing even with Obamacrats holding all the cards. Who'd have thunk it?
Posted by peter at June 22, 2009 06:27 PMhey people, don't feed the trolls...
Posted by kcbill13 at June 23, 2009 01:22 AM