Well, I'm generally not the rioting type, but if they try to postpone elections, I have trouble figuring out many alternatives.

Pess....by suggesting that the President of the United States might order a terror attack on our own citizens to retain his power, you have come very close to, if not crossed, the line. Congrats. Tell it like it is.

This is too cute by half. First, They set up Soaries and the USEAC, Then Ridge makes the big, unspecific, threat warning. Then, Soaries sends the letter as if in reaction to the warning. Gee, I wonder what Ashcroft will do...

This stinks to high heaven. I hope Kerry and Edwards jump all over this but I think the bastards will try to sneak or ram something through. Imo, we need to crush this NOW.

T2: I can't tell where you are coming from on your comment. Even the paranoid do sometimes have enemies, and BushCo behavior engenders distrust.

For what it is worth, 39% of those polled on this topic today at DailyKos think there is a potential problem, either that "the Administration would fake a non-existent terrorist attack as an excuse to call off/postpone the elections" (12%), or
"think the Administration would put together its own black-ops terrorist attack to create an excuse to call off/postpone the elections" (27%).

IMO, it isn't reasonable to TRUST ANY federal executive administration to uphold our freedoms. The Constitution, our laws, and our freedom are the basis of this country.

A government even considering suspension of elections must be immediately distrusted and steps taken to prevent that possibility.

T2

If I was sourcing from Jeff Rense, you might have a case. But I believe Newsweek to be somewhat reliable, considering it is a part of SCLM. I've used them as a source before, and no one complained then.

Who would have ever believed that we would watch as thousands died live on television? But we did. It is no more unbelieveable to expect, after all the BFEE/PNAC Petroleum Pirate Posse has done to illegally and extralegally extend their control and power, that they would stoop to such lowness - especially if John F. Kerry is headed to victory.

Power will not be ceded peacefully if there is any chance of Bush keeping it - and to hell with the damage to the nation.

FWIW, I think T2 meant to say that "crossing the line" is the appropriate course of action when we're talking about stakes like these. If I'm mistaken, T, by all means set me straight.

This is what they call a trial balloon.

How do we Americans feel about cancelling an election?

Well, truthfully, yeah, if a large metro area were effected by something awful, I could see postponing a particular state's, or two or however many were effected, election for a week or two or even a month. But, the rest of the country should vote as scheduled, and the states delayed ought to vote in time for the December or January electoral college vote. No national delay under any cirumstances are warranted, ever, short of the end of the world. What possible reason could there be to delay nationwide state-run elections? There is no reason, at all.

We voted during every wartime election thus far, and there's no reason to stop now. Sure, a state or two due to practical considerations like saving lives, okay. Delay those. Make up the vote later before December, January, whatever. The rest just got to vote on time.

This discussion is ridiculously undemocratic by its very nature. I can't believe they're actually trying to float this fucker.

Also, for those who doubt what this administration is capable of, look at how many they've been willing to kill for their goals thus far, and look at how willing they were to subvert the law in 2000. These people are capable of nearly anything.

Some of the media are taking it seriously!

Officials discuss how to delay Election Day - CNN

Terrorism could delay US election - Melbourne Herald Sun, Australia

US Mulling How to Delay Nov Vote in Case of Attack - Reuters

Al-Qaeda Attack Might Delay US Election, Newsweek Reports - Bloomberg

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Dammit, we deserve 'em both.

Let's hope that in November, I'm not forced to repeat the dictum of another Founding Father:

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."

The real USA Patriot Act

A couple of my Republican friends say if Bush somehow gets the authority to postpone the election, they wont vote for him.

These people are capable of nearly anything.

Brian, this is why I( and many) think this isnt a trial balloon(like Kerry's trial balloon of delaying the nomination). I think it is something they are seriously considering doing, regardless of the public response, since they can claim that they have the nation's best interests at heart. Even though they dont and never have.

Look on the bright side. If they cancel the elections, they're going to look like sore losers and they're going to lose any remaining credibility. Unless they can do it smoothly (and what are the odds of that happening with this crew?), I think it could backfire on them. In a big way.

Still, I hope we can blow the hell out of this trial balloon before they get any idea, as there is still a signifcant risk if they try it.

Our worst fears come true. If they are talking about it, you can be sure it will happen.

If they cancel the elections, they're going to look like sore losers and they're going to lose any remaining credibility.

If there are no elections, a loss of credibility won't matter much, no? (Unless they lose cred with the Armed Forces. But a military coup doesn't seem like the most likely event to lead to a restoration of American democracy, does it?)

it wdnt hurt to write to your representatives and senators

doint nothing is not an option

pessismist....the chances of a visitor to you area of the country I think just improved significantly with all these stories in the media. I'm referring to this comment here.

...If George W. Bush , for any reason, seeks to suspend the right of the American people to vote this November, I will fly out to California (Southwest Airlines is slashing their fares again! Yay!) and I will march and storm the barricades with you and absolutely raise hell like you can't imagine. I will denounce him as a tyrant and traitor until my throat is raw. I will never stand for that sort of usurpation. NEVER.

Yup, your Favorite Perfessor made those statements a thread in response to Steve's post Will Bush/Cheney Use Terrorism Once Again For Political Gain?, last Thursday. Might want to get that spare bed ready and pick up another pitchfork just in case. ;-p

I know it might sound like I'm joking about this, but I am taking these reports seriously and I am not happy about it. I think a move this drastic would really be the last straw even for the most adamant of Shrub supporters and it would be the end for him and his party for a long, long time.

"I hope Kerry and Edwards jump all over this"

Yeah, right. And Daschle is looking out for our interests too:

"Asked if the timing of the terror concerns might be aimed at stealing political thunder from the announcement of John Edwards as the democratic vice presidential candidate, Daschle replied, "The report is so sobering and so serious that I cannot bring myself to believe anyone in this administration would use this for political purposes."

The Bush administration - manipulating for political purposes? Daschle, by this time, certainly understands that they would never do that!

Yup, your Favorite Perfessor made those statements ...

I'M IMPRESSED!

There may be hope for him after all!

I'll let Toby off the hook until McClellan has to field questions about this one; G-Dub hasn't yet "sought" to suspend our right to vote--it's more a "please, Congress, make sure I can assume dictatorial powers if it comes to that" thing so far.

But Toby: You're always accusing US of "siding" with terrorists. Are you willing to stop "siding" with the first administration EVER to contemplate derailing our democracy? If not, you're objectively pro-fascism.

G'night.

What if an attack renders California and NY unable to participate in the election. You don't really want those potential electoral votes to go away do you? In that case postponing the election would be the only way to maintain the integrity of the electoral process.

I think if NY and CA were the damaged targets that the administration wouldn't bother to ask for a delay--after all, these guys just worship deadlines, dontcha know. (cf. Florida 2000)

Is the executive branch the only branch of govt that can delay a national election?

Jill, I share those very same fears. But, I have to think this is a trial balloon. Why telegraph your intentions except to see what the reaction might be? It may even be a trial balloon for his base of support. I have no doubt they don't give much of a hoot for our opinion.

I'm writing my senator and congressman about this. Seriously. This shit cannot be allowed to happen.

Realist, if an attack rendered California or NY or a large metropolitan area unable to participate, then, YES, by all means, go save lives. Delay the election in THOSE states. Hold another election in time for the electoral vote, which is in December or January (can't remeber which). I'm realistic, too, and realistically, yes, al Qaeda and possibly others want to attacks us. 9-11 showed us that.

BUT, presidential elections are state-run elections held on the same day nationwide. There is NO reason to suspend them all. It's preposterous! If NY gets hit badly in November or late October, there's no reason why Iowa can't hold its election for president as planned, is there? Not that I can see. Sure, we'd all be sad and scared, but a presidential election was held when Confederate troops were just over the state line in Virginia, right near Washington D.C. If they can hold an election in the middle of a civil war like that, then we can certainly hold one for most of the country during or after a terrorist attack. It's just patently un-democratic to do anything but hold an election, which is, of course about what I've come to expect from Dubya.

Did it occur to anyone that this trial balloon might be for al Quida's benifit? Look Osama, you can destroy Deomocracy in America with a well timed terorrist attack. Dubya has done everything else Osama wanted him to do.

OP:

There were plenty of people questioning Thomas Dewey's patriotism. At the convention someone got up and said "a vote for Dewey is a vote for Hitler"

Can't find the source, but I'm fairly sure this sort of thing is true.

Brian - Good points. I think doing the election piecemeal poses problems with election dynamics (ie: networks calling states before all polls are closed), but it may be the only choice.

I'm no expert on govt but what happens on January 20(?), 2005 if no election has been held? Who runs the place...immediate prior president? Speaker of the House? Al Haig???

good post, pessimist. in a related story, WSJ reports pitchfork futures are through the roof.

If the election is postponed, I shall fly my flag upside down until I get to vote.

This story is all about one of those contingency plans like the Doomsday scenarios they've been thinking over since the Eisenhower Administration. I wouldn't think much of it. Such planning and documents become part of counter-History (i.e., things that never happened, but might have). It's just a curiosity.

Federal elections are supposed to happen simultaneously across the country every two, four, or six years, depending. That may even be Constitutional.

Here's the thing, though: al-Qaedists wouldn't strike on Election Day itself because, if their purpose is to somehow "influence" the electorate, that day would be too late, wouldn't it? If they strike some soft targets (hard ones would be far less likely, considering the heightened security that's bound to be in place by late October), how will that affect a person's vote in some place far from the carnage? Is some Republican in Maine supposed to all of a sudden vote for Kerry because some mall in Minnesota is hit with sarin?

I don't get the rationale of any of this nonsense.

It may be time for you bozos to realize that our country is a lot safer from terrorism today than it was on 10 September 2001. Just remember what Mario Cuomo told Tim Russert a few nights ago: "Terrorism is not a threat to this nation's survival."

See? Don't you feel safer already?

The only thing I'm worried about these days are the civil rights of asshole Arab terrorists. Thank God for the ACLU!

What is being proposed is constitutional. Congress sets election day - not the Constitution (which only sets the Inauguration).

from US Code Title III, Chapter 1 Section 2:
"Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct"

Should they - no. Can they - yes. The primary restriction is that the Electors must cast their ballots on the same day, and that that day should be before the Inauguration.

It may be time for you bozos to realize that our country is a lot safer from terrorism today than it was on 10 September 2001.

Then we shouldn't need to be looking into postponing our elections, which are clearly an important part of being a democracy. See how that works?

I quite agree.

for the record, a day late: My post was a jestful reference to the scolding I received from Pess several days ago for calling the GOP a party of bigots. That was the day that Bush refused to address the NAACP Convention (for the fourth time since he was appointed president).

Why does Tom Ridge hate America?

Bush has declared himself dictator of this country with the mere SUGGESTION of canceling the election in November in case of an attack planned out by the Rovian-male menopause fright machine. Our Pride and Joy has always wanted to be dictator, even announced it to the inept press hordes who slobber after him. "I'd like to be a dictator, be a whole lot easier." I don't doubt that Kerry/Edwards are enabling him in the effort. Neither of them seem too interested in attacking his record as vigorously as they should, perhaps because they are too scared?

I happened on the York, PA Bush rally on C-span last night and I was astonished at W. The people in the audience, a subdued, all WHITE bunch, seemed just as embarrassed as I, with Bush leaning on the podium, slurring his words, 'Liberty' became 'Liberlee', and he kept barking the same platitudes OVER and OVER again. He appeared either stoned or drunk, or both! The camera spanned the crowd, and many of them looked like they were thinking, "What AM I doing here?" Not too many of them seemed convinced; instead, it was like, "I'm a good Republican, and he's a God fearing man, and I'm loyal. 'Sides, I'd die first before I'd vote for Kerry, a LIBERAL!

I remembered reading about German citizens hauled out for parades and rallies for Hitler or face a firing squad. If the media wants to protect Bush, don't allow cameras at rallies. It hurts too much to watch obcenity like this.

since this thread is still alive: Lots of headlines on the web CNN's etc, today about the "cancel the election" story. Billmon has a great post on his site. I'm not sure legislation could be put through Congress fast enough to affect the Nov. 2 election. But if it is done, my take is this:
If Bush is far enough ahead in the polls, no way the election will be cancelled -for anything. He'll say "we can't cave in to the terrorists". If he is far enough behind to suggest a Kerry win.......and there is an attack....all bets are off. But killing a few people with a "suicider" won't do the trick. Will they kill thousands to retain power? Would they actually believe they can get away with it? Would they work with Osama to do it? If so, better not capture him before the election.

Okay T2, I feel better--but the MF is STILL a dictator and I believe all things are possible with RoveCo!

D Feinstein had a milquetoast response this morning to that issue. An insuficient response at best.

There would be no justification for delaying/postponing the election save the end of the world, in which case it wouldn't really matter, now would it?

Notice what they are thinking of: Soaries, a Bush appointee who two years ago was an unsuccessful GOP candidate for Congress, wants Ridge to seek emergency legislation from Congress empowering his agency to make such a call.

Was Ridge elected by the people? Is he responsible to the people, or that tinpot coward in the White House?

Feinstein's gettin a letter!