Hold out? Probably not, thw proverbial shit is hitting the fan over there. The central problem is that some people refuse to understand that many Iraqis don’t like us. It is hard to impose your will on a people regardless of whether or not your way of life is a good one or not. Many people seem so mystified by the possibility that the Iraqi people are still trying to blow us up. We would do the same to anyone that tried to do the same to us.
Several problems present themselves at this point. Primarily, what next?

I fear that even if Kerry is elected he wont have many options. The situation is such that walking away from it would likely be as disastrous as staying. What a mess…

The papers are full of the story that Bush intends to launch massive attacks againts Iraqi "Insurgents" (code word for indescriminant killing of Muslims whatever their nationality) immediately after the elections. Kerry has been handed a gift/granade. He can show this as the desperate act that is (and genocide to boot) and an implicit admission of how bad things really are there OR he can reveal it and be denounced as soft on the War. Another Rove scam where no matter what Kerry does, Rove will have the counter, unless.... Kerry needs to jump on this big time and use it to prove the Bush failure.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/19/MNGK28REMK1.DTL&type=printable

Iraq won't decide the election. It is the stupid GOD almighty. As I predicted long time ago, unless we lose 100K soldiers, it won't matter.

If you listen to Bush's speeches carefully, it is full of religious code. Obviously, it is working Bush.

What a great country we are living in.

Bush's honesty about the situation in Iraq is now being questioned 50+ days before the election. The administrations Iraq Smiley Face won't last until the election.
Even the Republicans on the bobble head shows this morning were slamming the administration. On Fox News, of all places, John McCain was asked point blank if the president was being honest and after a pause had to admit that he was not.
Of course the Republicans are calling for swift military action to root out the insurgents. It's too late for that. The Democrats are accusing the administration of not wanting to take action before the election. Probably true, the massive casualties that would result would not help Mr. Bush's re-election campaign.
The Iraq war can certainly be compared to Vietnam in one respect, a lot of Americans are dyeing for nothing.
The Boston Globe has a good Op Ed today, Ugly truths about Iraq

IT SHOULD not be surprising that a classified National Intelligence Estimate completed late last month projects three scenarios for Iraq over the next year and a half that range from dicey to disastrous -- from fragile stability to civil war among Sunni Arabs, Shi'ites, and Kurds.

What is surprising is that President Bush and Vice President Cheney nevertheless go on campaigning on the false pretense that their Iraq policy has been a great success.

It is no defense for Bush and Cheney to say that Iraqis and the world are better off with Saddam Hussein behind bars and his clique of mass murderers removed from power. Nor is it enough to claim that there are some positive indicators of an incipient Iraqi civil society coalescing in the country.

Ron in Portland, All I can say after I read that is Oh Shit! This is bad! Very, very, bad! Iraq is Lost. The fact that Republican Senators who are supporting the President are actually admitting this in public right before an election confirms my worst fears about Iraq. Our poor troops, this isn't fair to them. They have been used and abused by Junior. I have 2 National Guard friends (2 different states and units)who are scheduled to go over there this October. Damn you Bush! Damn you PNAC groupies running the show! Damn all of you amoral,W(wrong) supporters who continue to spout your Kerry sucks mantra on this site while your fellow Americans continue to die for a lie and you refuse to admit it or volunteer yourself to go fight for it.

john, It's interesting to hear the idiot son of George Bush wax non-poetic in bible-speak. Even more interesting that many christians do not want to be told who to vote for, and bridle when told Bush is the religous persons choice.

The only way to solve the Iraq problem is to drop another 500,000 troops on the ground. Only way to do that is with a draft. Anyone ready for that?

Whch f Jhn Krry's dblspk wrds s h mn f?

Which of bendito's doublespeak words is he a man of?

Troop Funding

Flip: "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it," Senator John Kerry, March 16, 2004.

Flop: "I voted against that $87 billion in Washington yesterday.? Senator John Kerry, October 18, 2003. congress=108&session=1&vote=00400

Flip: The liberal Massachusetts senator, who supported deep budget cuts in weapons programs and in the Central Intelligence Agency throughout the 1990s. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040307-120636-3469r.htmhttp://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?

Maybe if the insurgents stop killing innocent Iraqis, like the spineless cowards that they are we'll see some of our troops come home at last.

Trixta, were the insurgents killing innocent Iraquis before we invaded? I'll give you the answer: No, they weren't. As a matter of fact, Iraq was a peaceful country and relatively prosperous, albeit run by a dictator (supported in the early eighties by the US) operating under strict UN restrictions and a US inforced no-fly zone. Then we invaded to keep the Iraqis from launching WMD against us using unmanned drone aircraft. And now we have what we have.

Anonymous:

Kerry did not support deep budget cuts in weapons programs or the CIA in the 90's, no matter what crap you get from the Washington Times. In fact, Kerry supported reductions in the same weapons programs that Dick Cheney and George H. W. Bush wanted to eliminate in the late 80's/early 90's.

Soto,

You are wrong. KERRY supported every cut in the military budget as well as MASSIVE CUTS in the INTELLIGENCE agencies. You can put forward as many lies as you want BUT I SITE THE ACTUAL VOTES IN THE SENATE.

It's amazing how noone here ever talks aboiut the 20 year record of KERRY:

IT IS THE MOST LIBERAL OF ANY SENATOR!!!!

TAKE A LOOK A THE ELECTORAL MAP -- KERRY IS HAVING MASJOR PROBLEMS

It's amazing how noone here ever talks aboiut the 20 year record of KERRY:

IT IS THE MOST LIBERAL OF ANY SENATOR!!!!

Did you wake-up after a long sleep, Rip? The republi-cons have pretty much moved past this one, especially since the idiot son of George Bush has proven himself as anything but a supporter of the military.

Yes. Kerry can change his mind. He has a long record of public service. The chimperor had to work really hard to catch up and beat Kerry in flip flops. To wit:

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... [President Bush, 9/25/02]
...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT [President Bush, 9/17/03]

U.N. Resolution
BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... [President Bush 3/6/03]
...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

Department of Homeland Security
BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

Weapons of Mass Destruction
BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION… [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]
...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION … [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

North Korea
BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... [President's Statement, 11/15/02]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM…[White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]

Abortion
BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]
...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

Social Security Surplus
BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS [President Bush, 3/3/01]
...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

Patient's Right to Sue
GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... [Salon, 2/7/01]
...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]
...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

Tobacco Buyout
BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM [President Bush, 5/04]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]

OPEC
BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... [President Bush, 1/26/00]
...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

Iraq Funding
BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]
...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

Condoleeza Rice Testimony
BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]
...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: [President Bush, 3/30/04]

Science
BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE... [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

Ahmed Chalabi
BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS... [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]
...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

Free Trade
BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

Osama Bin Laden
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]
...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

The Environment
BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]
...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

WMD Commission
BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... [NY Times, 1/29/04]
...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE [President Bush, 2/6/04]

Creation of the 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... [CBS News, 5/23/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION [ABC News, 09/20/02]

Time Extension for 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... [Washington Post, 1/19/04]
...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 [CNN, 2/4/04]

One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony
BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... [NY Times, 2/26/04]
...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

Gay Marriage
BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]
...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE [President Bush, 2/24/04]

Nation Building
BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]
...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION [President Bush, 3/6/03]

Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict
BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... [President Bush, 04/05/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS [President Bush, 5/23/03]

Campaign Finance
BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]
...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]