For a war of choice,
a war fought because this president wanted a war and the Congress didn't have the guts to deny him...
for that kind of war too many people of all nations died before the US even got to Baghdad.
Far too many more will die before we can stuff the hounds of hell we have unloosed back into their holes. Every one of these deaths will have been for nothing.
Posted by clio at October 28, 2004 08:58 PMREMINDER
Spread the word. The Sundance Channel is playing some important documentaries as the election approaches including a documentary marathon on election eve. Please send this information to everyone you know and have them check www.sundancechannel.com for show times.
Thursday (10/28)
With God On Our Side: George W. Bush and the Rise of the Religious Right in America
Monday (11/01)
Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election
The Whole Truth About The Iraq War
Unconstitutional: The War on Our Civil Liberties
Bush's Brain
Posted by Joe at October 28, 2004 09:18 PM100,000?
that's such a load of bullshit
it's like 380 tons
it's an exaggeration
Posted by Trevor Webb at October 28, 2004 09:59 PM100,000?
That's real, human blood on our American hands, not bullshit.
It IS like 380 tons.
It's carefully studied FACT, not exaggeration.
Posted by Brian Bell at October 28, 2004 10:16 PMTrevor, go back to fascist fantasy island dude. Nobody here is interested in your talking point bullshit.
Posted by Joe at October 28, 2004 10:19 PMGod, isn't it the truth that every forum has at least one moron???
Mary, your story was stunning. Thank you for that.
F.
Posted by Farquharson at October 28, 2004 10:31 PMSnc Sddm's mltry mltd wy n th rly dys f th wr, ll th bldy slmst btchrs r cvlns. Tlly 'm p.
[Editor: ignore=off]It's funny, a couple of weeks ago it was around 20,000 Iraqis in total that have died .
These last couple of weeks must have been bloody violent.
Someones getting their statistics wrong, or lying, either way I severly doubt the total death toll of iraqis both civilian and combatant exeeds 100,000.
Perhaps someone could explain this drastic rise in deaths all of a sudden.
Posted by Ricardo at October 29, 2004 03:28 AMBenito,
I'm sure a lot of terrorist...ooops sorry insurgents.... kills have been included in that figure. The civilians should force the terrorists among them out, or expect to die.
(I can see some harsh comeback for your "tally 'em up" statement.... you wouldn't catch me saying anything like that....)
Note to Steve Soto,
The other day I received a warning for my "profanities", how come it's alright for folks ,on the left side of the fence, to say whatever the hell they like without chastizement???
Ricardo, how do you know he doesn't chastize the rest of us? He has chastized me for my profanity and I try to stop but sometimes you and your friend's stupidity is so profound it just begs for commentary.
Posted by Joe at October 29, 2004 04:19 AMRe: those 100,000 Iraqi deaths and the ones soon to come at Fallujah. Along with Thomas Jefferson, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just. Besides all ofthe innocents we have killed up to now, the ONLy reason we remain in Iraq is to kill more Iraqis, whom we once said we were liberating. Anyone out there try to articulate a plausible, achievable reason why we are still there. We are going to destroy Fallujah so--what?--its residents (HA!) can vote safely? Surely we jest about that.
Charles
Posted by charles at October 29, 2004 06:37 AMSince Saddam's military melted away in the early days of the war, all the bloody islamist butchers are civilians. Tally 'em up.
And this, again, reflects well on our planning how, exactly?
Posted by Dave at October 29, 2004 06:39 AMI know a few people that have been in Iraq fighting and they tell me the stuff on TV is very misleading. Alot of people over there are very happy we came and took sadam out and it's only the 1% that are insurgents that the democratic media are showing. You know a lot of people in america are killed everyday by violent crime and we don't but every single case on national tv.
Posted by jz at October 29, 2004 06:40 AMIt really is horrific. The contrast between the mythical Good America that is commonly promoted and the America that periodically through its history righteously kills hundreds of thousands of the brown/yellow/red-skinned Other (and that's not including relatively just wars such as WWII and Korea) eats at me.
BTW, as the article points out, the 100,000 figure is a conservative estimate -- the actual number of Iraqis dead as a result of Bush's blind ideology could be more than 200,000.
Posted by Bragan at October 29, 2004 07:48 AMYep Mr.Bragan, you certainly are living in the land of evil. No wonder you're so determined to bring down your government.
Pathetic.
I'll say again, we are privelidged to live in the west rather than some devoid of rights and freedom third world hellhole.
What the freaking hell are you whining about Bragan, if you're so ashamed of what you're ancestors have done and your country then your choices are simple:
Build a time machine and stop all the butchery from ever happening.
Or...
Piss off to another country that has a far more perfect and less blood-stained history in comparison. Your pitiful, unnecessary complaining just shows how ungrateful you are.
Posted by Ricardo at October 29, 2004 08:44 AMI'll say again, we are privelidged to live in the west rather than some devoid of rights and freedom third world hellhole.
What the freaking hell are you whining about Bragan, if you're so ashamed of what you're ancestors have done and your country then your choices are simple:
Build a time machine and stop all the butchery from ever happening.
Or...
Piss off to another country that has a far more perfect and less blood-stained history in comparison. Your pitiful, unnecessary complaining just shows how ungrateful you are.
Posted by Ricardo at October 29, 2004 08:45 AMI'll say again, we are privelidged to live in the west rather than some devoid of rights and freedom third world hellhole.
What the freaking hell are you whining about Bragan, if you're so ashamed of what you're ancestors have done and your country then your choices are simple:
Build a time machine and stop all the butchery from ever happening.
Or...
Piss off to another country that has a far more perfect and less blood-stained history in comparison. Your pitiful, unnecessary complaining just shows how ungrateful you are.
Posted by Ricardo at October 29, 2004 08:46 AMNo wonder you're so determined to bring down your government.
Ricardo,
We bring down our government every four years. It's written down somewhere that we're supposed to do it but I can't remember where right now.
I haven't looked into the details of this report but one thing that was pointed out in the NYTimes article on it today was that 100,000 dead works out to about 166 a day.
Take that for what you will.
One thing that I was uncertain about was if this 100,000 figure includes only violent deaths or if it includes deaths caused by disease from degraded living conditions and lack of medical treatment.
Posted by muckcat at October 29, 2004 08:51 AMmuckcat, in answer to your question, the article does state:
The majority of these deaths, which are in addition those normally expected from natural causes, illness and accidents, have been among women and children, finds the study, released early by The Lancet on Thursday.The most common cause of death is as a direct result of violence, mostly caused by coalition air strikes, reveals the study of almost 1000 households scattered across Iraq. And the risk of violent death just after the invasion was 58 times greater than before the war. The overall risk of death was 1.5 times more after the invasion than before.
"most common cause of death" could be well under 50%, but even if it were only 10 or 15%, that would still be an acceptable cost to me. And regardless, the point of this is that we've made Iraq a much more unstable and dangerous place to live.
Ricardo -- I love my country, even when I feel shame at what some have done in the name of America. I still believe America has great potential, though our addiction to wastefull consumerism and Bush's terrible foreign and domestic misconduct will make it very difficult for us to come close to fully realizing that potential.
Posted by Bragan at October 29, 2004 09:10 AM