This might just be what the Washington State Republicans need to get the ball rolling on replacing Cantwell in the Senate the next time around. Remember Daschle? Look for out-of- state money to influence the outcome in the next Senate race.

If the dems win then we will break even in the gubanatoral races. A moral win I suppose.

King County is supposed to announce their results (without the 700+) by 3:30 this afternoon.

I'm sorry but I gotta question these ballots. Some of them sat in the open for days. Every other county seemed to do ok with ballots but one suddenly has thousands of new ones ?

It may be a win but this is one where it's tough to not admit that things look fishy.

You are misinformed, Bill. The King County ballots (hundreds, not thousands) were in sealed envelopes signed by the voters in a locked cage. Several other counties also added in votes previously not counted (hundreds in at least one case). Here's what the Washington Supreme Court has to say about "fishiness":

Respondents suggest that there may have been some impropriety involved in this decision, or that the ballots involved might have been tampered with, but point to no facts supporting such a conclusion.

Actually I was refering to the 10,000 ballots they 'discovered' during the first machine recount and the ballots that showed up in the hand recount.

I've been following this from both sides (your site for Dems and soundpolitics for Reps).

It just seems to me that there are some real questions here, such as the ballot marked Christine Rossi that was counted for Gregoire. Seems a little odd to assume one way and not the other.

My point is that you like these ballots because they help your candidate (I'm not from Washington so I have no horse in the race). But if they were ballots 'discovered' in a heavily GOP county, you'd be screaming bloody murder about it.

In theory an ideal election where every vote is counted is what we want. But human beings are not perfect and never will be.

It's because of these problems that we have rules set up in advance, and from what I've read here, at SP, in the Seattle papers, etc it seems like King county changed the rules while everyone else didn't.

Bill, on pure numbers there was actually greater error per person in the highly republican Grant county as 52 votes were found. This means one ballot was found per 495 voter (using total number of people voting per county, not population in county). In King 700 ballots were found, making one ballot found per every 1251 voters. Now this doesn't take in other voter malfience factors, but on the numbers alone there was more of a problem in Grant then in King.

Actually I was refering to the 10,000 ballots they 'discovered' during the first machine recount and the ballots that showed up in the hand recount.

The 10,000 ballots weren't "found" - they were provisional ballots. Every county has them, and King County no doubt had the most since it is by far the biggest county. They have to checked to see they are OK, but then they're the same as any other votes. The hand recount ballots were erroneously set aside absentee ballots. The voters' signatures hadn't been scanned into the computer system, but the election workers punted instead of verifying them manually using the voter registration forms. Those ballots were in sealed envelopes signed by the voters and were kept in a locked cage.

It just seems to me that there are some real questions here, such as the ballot marked Christine Rossi that was counted for Gregoire. Seems a little odd to assume one way and not the other.

That ballot had the oval filled in for Gregoire, then "Christine Rossi" written in without filling in the write-in oval. The elections board has very specific instructions for all the contingencies like that. In that particular case, I think the applicable rule goes something like, "if a candidate's oval is filled in and the write-in oval is not, ignore whatever is on the write-in line. The vote is one the machines would have counted for Gregoire.

My point is that you like these ballots because they help your candidate (I'm not from Washington so I have no horse in the race). But if they were ballots 'discovered' in a heavily GOP county, you'd be screaming bloody murder about it.

Alot of ballots were discovered in GOP counties. The 52 from Grant County (mentioned above) came from a county where Rossi won 68%-30%. The Democrats had no problem with that. As for myself, I would be disappointed if Gregoire lost, since I want to build my party and its power base, but as a Californian I don't have any direct stake in the outcome. Where I do feel like I have a direct stake is in Democracy.

No doubt about it, Democrats are all worked up over this because of Florida. That result was arbitrary, reflecting the power of those controlling the vote counting rather than just the will of all the people that voted. We wanted to show in Washington how democracy is supposed to work by counting all the votes, even if that means the other guy wins. At least we would know he really had more people vote for him. That Gregoire has apparently pulled it out (pending the 700+ absentee ballots) after Rossi claimed victory is for us a bit of vindication for what happened in 2000.

In theory an ideal election where every vote is counted is what we want. But human beings are not perfect and never will be.

True, but we should do our best.

It's because of these problems that we have rules set up in advance, and from what I've read here, at SP, in the Seattle papers, etc it seems like King county changed the rules while everyone else didn't.

I really don't think that is true at all. King County screwed up by not counting the 700+ initially, but other counties made mistakes too. Snohomish added 224 votes in the machine recount, Grant added 52, and several other counties added votes after the initial tally. In all cases that I have seen, there was no evidence of fraud or of changing the rules midstream. In fact, I was impressed with how explicit the rules were and how orderly the recount was. Counties caught their errors and did an excellent job counting everyone's vote, and that is paramount. Every single precinct in King County was counted by a Democrat and a Republican until they matched their count precisely. They had specific rules in place for ballots where voters made errors to judge whether the voter's intent was clear. Washington should be proud of the job they did.

One other note: the Supreme Court had this to say about Republican suspicions:

Respondents suggest that there may have been some impropriety involved in this decision, or that the ballots involved might have been tampered with, but point to no facts supporting such a conclusion.

That pretty much sums it up - there is literally no evidence that there was any fraud or other associated monkey business. Washington State deserves alot of credit for that by keeping good records and performing the recount with the utmost professionalism. To me, it insults their efforts to imply fraud occurred without any evidence whatsoever.

Republicans are now claiming 91 votes for Rossi that were not properly counted by election officials. I'm thinking that Gregoire could have over 100 vote lead by the time the extra ballots are counted so the 91 wouldn't matter anyway. The other question that remains is if the 91 ballots are A) erroniously (sp?) marked by election officials or by the voters (in which case they shouldn't be counted) and B) if votes can be counted after the hand recount has been certified. Remember King county has not been certified yet so the 700+ absentee ballots can legally be counted (because of election board error).

Shortly before the canvassing board met, Republicans submitted affidavits to King County elections officials from 91 people who voted for Rossi and believe their ballots were erroneously rejected.

link

The final Gregoire margin was 130.

Wait a minute! What about voter suppression issues! Hanging chads! Oh wait, this is a Democrat who won. I guess there are no issues, no more litigation. It was a 170-vote landslide.

Skeptic,

You can't call hypocrosy and then proceed to be hypocrits yourselves. In 2000 Bush wanted the election over , but in 2004 Rossi is planning to sue the state to make sure all votes (and I'm imagining that means votes in primarily republican counties) are counted.