Oh, and where was John Kerry when Boxer was doing this?

It keeps him from voting on this...and allows him to introduce election reform and not suffer "nani nani boo boo" from the republi-cons.

Rep. John Conyers of Michigan and Sen. Boxer are Great politicians. As recently as yesterday, I called Conyers a flake. Never again -- he and Boxer are exemplars for all those in Washington. Words fail me, my gratitude and American pride cannot be expressed adequately enough. Finally, someone stood up, someone with a voice, stood up and said, No. Boxer/Conyers or Conyer/Boxer in '08!

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones (I hope she isn't overweight) and Barbara Boxer!!! WOW!

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones (I hope she isn't overweight) and Barbara Boxer!!! WOW!

I will be eternally grateful to Barbara Boxer for taking a public stand on this. I am very disappointed with the other Democratic senators for not joining her. And I am totally pissed off with Kerry.

Let us make sure that in ALL future elections we put up candidates who have the BRAINS, the GUTS and the WILL to not only fight fair, but to fight hard.

Enough of empty promises such as "Every vote counts, and every vote will be counted" and then conceding within 4 hours of saying them.

Alvin

So you all will be fine with this waste of taxpayer money every time an election is held. No matter who wins now the other side can slow down the confirmation of the electoral vote even when the evidence is clear enough that a particular candidate has won that even his opponent has conceeded. Sounds like even the politicians challenging already know they lost just wnat to get their picture in the news. Oh wll I guess making political points are more important the interests of the US. At least kerry didn't join the boo hoo we lost bandwagon.

Avenger:

Stop being an asshole! You know very well that Bush did not win by fair means in Ohio, Florida and New Mexico!

Alvin

Tell that to your friends in Washington State Avenger.

And do tell, when did Republicans care a rats ass about taxpayer money? Rummy blew this much money the last time his plane taxied down to runway to Iraq to lie to the troops.

And of course of whole Bush Administration isn't about scoring political points?

Get real, and truthful, and then we can talk.

But AD-22: ". . . when the evidence is clear enough that a particular candidate has won . . ." Huh-huh. And the evidence is also clear that the repugs "won" by hook and by crook. It is NOT as much a waste of my tax money as is the war in Iraq. Democracy cannot be administered in suppository form (no matter how much you might like it). The lying liars are also stealing thieves, and that idea needs to be crammed into the heads of all you trolls - no matter which orifice is used.

Oh, and where was John Kerry when Boxer was doing this?

It keeps him from voting on this...and allows him to introduce election reform and not suffer "nani nani boo boo" from the republi-cons.

Like that's gonna work.

Did anyone see Kucinich's speech? Damn, I love that man.

Avenger:

And another point. The "waste of taxpayer money" (as you call it) is a drop in the bucket compared with the HUGE deficit and fiscal mismanagement by Bu$h and Co. A 2-hour debate in the House and the Senate is a small price to pay to restore democracy in the US.

Protecting democracy (in a visible way) in the US is even more important, especially when we invade other countries under false pretences (WMDs, imminent threats, connections to 9/11) and then ignore all these claims and then say that we are really doing this to spread "democracy". Do you really think that other countries are fools -- even if some 50% of US voters are?

Alvin

Only if there is massive fraud, cheating and disenfranchisement and oathbreaking by Secretaries of State.

And the "political point" they are making is that our Franchise needs the support of the system, that otherwise we're back to Tammany Hall and Ward Bosses and various other vote fixing schemes, which all make a mockery of our Republic.

Kinda like Texas. Coz if people believe, rightly, that their vote is irrelevent because some fucking machine or troll like blackwell is going to decide who receives the votes, people won't vote at all. But perhaps that's what you like, Avenger?

in watching some of today hearings on the ohio election results i was struck at how facist like the republican arguments are on the matter...its like people don't have any rights at all to question them...it's spooky...the only rights they believe in are in unborn children...except if their born and they have to dig into their pockets....then begins compassionate conservatism

As to Kerry's absence today, he wasn't a hermit over the holidays - he was at Sun Valley attending a Schwarzenegger party - and in deep conversation with (yuck) Dennis Miller there (according to a SF Chronicle columnist).

Bless the Federal System.

Both houses of Congress have lived up to their constitutional duty to challenge when needed.
During this dark period of U.S. history I keep telling myself that some bright spots will be remembered and a few true leaders will emerge. Today is one of the bright spots and Boxer, Conyers and Tubbs-Jones will be remembered for their courage and leadership.

It would be unfair if I didn't add Sec. of State Reed (Wash.State) to this sadly too short list of couragous leaders in dark times.

Kerry was in Fallujah and Mosul. In this place called Iraq. Little thing going on there.

Better he wasn't in the Senate. Made this about election reform, not him, and diminished the Republican argument this was all about sour grapes.

Just saw DeLay on C-SPAN. Honestly, I have not seen to many speeches by him (though his reputation precedes him), but within a few lines of his speech I could see why he is called "the hammer". He talked of the past glory of the Democratic party, as if he, a hack Rep., had any right to evoke past success of the Democratic party. Then he went on to talk about how this challenge could be a “boy-who-cried-wolf” senerio. I don’t think it’s occurred to him that he (and others like Blackwell) are the wolves in our time. Sickening.

So the final vote in the Senate was 74 to one. That just about mirrors the public's wiew as to which candidate really won the election.

I am wondering why I should spend one more dollar, one more hour volunteering, one more vote on the Democrats? I mean, really. What good will introducing bills for vote reform be in a Republican controlled country? Demands for paper trails have been ignored so far, haven't they?

Not one of my co workers know or care about what happened today, even the Dems; they already have accepted that their vote does not count. The only person here who will vote again is the Bush voter - know why? Because she got a letter and xmas card from bush personally. Has anyone here gotten a note or card from the Dems that didn't ask for money?

How can we fight if they won't fight for us? Now I'd better go get a second job, because I get the feeling the party is ready to roll over on social security as well.

"So the final vote in the Senate was 74 to one. That just about mirrors the public's wiew as to which candidate really won the election." thats kind of similar to the majority of bush supporters believing saddam was involved in 9-11. so if the "publics wiew" (sp) is wrong - that no big deal...the truth is not part of the issue.

Kerry continues to handle his loss with class; don't dump on him too much. He may want to try again, so being a sore loser would be death.

There is nothing--nothing--that any Democrat can do effectively until catastrophe strikes, and people realize how fucked we are. Being on record as being a good loser might not be the worst thing to take into the next election.

Give the carping about Kerry a rest, please??

avenger -22have you ever heard of being gracious in victory...imho in many ways it is even more important than being gracious in defeat. Did you even listen to what any Democrat said...probably not cuz it wasn't in idiot speak. It wasn't about electing Kerry it was about the effing piss poor election process stupid! You know free, fair, uniform, accurate, auditable voting, the cornestone of a democracy. I know you are familiar with the term democracy cuz Deer Leader talks about spreading it everywhere. But never mind, you wouldn't understand the relationship between the importance of a fair voting process and democracy, because that would involve critical thinking skills, something that you obviously lack.

Barbara Boxer was also willing to stand up at the beginning of November and say no to the omnibus spending bill that would have stuck in more anti-woman measures that Republicans are too chicken-shit to try to pass on their own. Boxer is beginning to emerge as one of the few Democrats who seems to understand the notion of "opposition." As in "dissent is patriotic."
And if Republicans have a problem with the objections raised today, then I'm sure they're ready to concede they lost the Washington gubernatorial race fair and square. Or does it only count as voting fraud if you don't get your way?
It is not a waste of money to point out that there were huge discrepancies that revealed problems in Ohio.
It is a waste of money to spend a huge amount of money on a coronation. Then again, campaign contributors need to feel important. It's what good whores do--make their clients feel special, that they're getting their money's worth, and GWB is a whore.

Amen.
I wrote to beg Barbara Boxer to act last night, and wrote to thank her profoundly today.
I am still heartbroken about the cowardice/complicity of most of the other Democrats...

Fuck Kerry. Fuck Edwards. Worthless pieces of shit. Fuck the Democratic party. Time to start a new party. Sons of bitches. Bravo Senator Boxer and the thirty some odd members of the House that still believe in representative democracy. I can't believe we're living in America. Talk about falling down the dirty laundry chute.

Sounds like sour grapes. The sky is falling crap you spew is why you all are out on the margins. If you don't get your act together the gren party will get more votes come next election.

You are spewing irreleveant mindless drivel Avenger. But please keep it up; it's entertaining to see the thought process of the red state voter at work.

Bravo Barbara Boxer! Thank you so much. You stood up for democracy.

Steve,

Get off teh dime your liberals domination of the democratic party is going to makei t as outdated as the Whigs. Sick to your guns and policy that have been rejected twice now but then there should be no whining in 2008 when the demorats lose again. People here are tired of being told to apologize for being American. that what we in the "bible Belt are backward and ignorant becuase we don't live sophisticated lives. We dont want live were political correctness triumphs over good old common sense. Clinton got elected becuase he lied and was allthings to all people. President Bush won becuase he stood his ground and did't take a poll to see if it was alright to wipe his own ass like Kerry did. That's what a leader does makes unpopular decsion that if you would be honest about you would agree with. Your lying to yourself when you say you don't feel safer. Your fooling yourself when you deny any possibilty of Iraq involment in 9/11. Your serioulsy not listening when you say Bush Mislead us. If you didn't listen to all thereason and only picked one then I hate to think what else you've missed in the last 4 to 8 years. But keep living your fantasy that this election was stolen keep whining how unfair life is. Its ok becuase in another 4 years you'll wake up and we will have won again then what will you do. Bush and Rove will be gone can't say they stole it then. Will you then let the idea the possibly its your ideals that are being rejected bythe majority of the people.

Avenger, first off, do a little spell checking.

Second, when did John Kerry say that we needed to apologize for being American? Just because Rush, Sean, and O'Reilly tell you that he said it doesn't make it true. Please do some thinking and research on your own. If in fact you served in the military like you say that you have, then you of all people should demand more of the GOP than this.

Lastly, when you say that Bush didn't take a poll, then I guess all that money that he spent on using polls to put together his moral values agenda was just a mirage, right?

Come on, do better.

Avenger:

Assuming that you can read and understand words of more than 2 syllables (and THAT is a big assumption), you had better read the book "What is the Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank before you post any more comments.

The book explains how the Republicans have promoted their own agenda -- more money for CEOs and billionaires and less regulation for businesses -- while leaving poor families with fewer jobs and their kids with poorer prospects.

As for Bill Clinton, his affair with Monica Lewinsky was basically a minor personal misconduct. But Ken Starr wasted $70 Million hounding Clinton with fruitless investigations of Whitewater, “Travelgate”, Vince Foster’s “murder”, etc. The reality is that Clinton's affair did not cost a single life and did not endanger national security, but he was impeached by the Republican fanatics.

In contrast with that, Bush lied (and continues to lie) in order to attack Iraq, claiming that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction, Saddam was connected with 9/11, Saddam was friendly with Al-Qaeda, Saddam was an imminent danger to USA, etc. And Bu$h has not been able to produce any evidence to back up his claims. (But I forget, you and your kind don’t need any evidence, do they?).

And what has been the result of Bu$h's lies? We have already wasted $150 Billion (do you know what a Billion is?) on this illegal and immoral war and killed over 1200 American soldiers. The invasion of Iraq has helped Al Qaeda recruit more terrorists and has made the US less safe than before. It has alienated our traditional allies, and the torture of Iraqi prisoners has made us look like hypocrites and fools to the rest of the world (I assume you know that there is a world out there).

And to cap it all, Bu$h, Cheney and the other necons are chickenhawks – they went and found excuses to escape fighting in Vietnam and the Gulf War of 1991.

Please wake up, and stop believing in Bu$h’s lies!

Jonathan

...and now that Saddam's in jail, what is Bush's reason for being in Iraq?