it was an unpopular concept with the middle class.

If this is the case, please explain the 1984 election results.

LOL

Dick Cheney on Social Security reform

Stealth? To me all it looks like is a series of transparent lies. The conservative agenda has been clear for years. Liberals have simply refused to believe that they were serious.
Conservative circles have detested Social Security and wanted to end it since the 30's, they simply never had the power to bring it off until now and therefor payed lipservice to it.
I remember in the late 60's/ early 70's seeing John Birch Society billboards in Orange County California calling for the "U.S. out of U.N./ U.N. out of U.S." Almost everyone thought that this was crazy and would never happen. Now the conservatives go out of their way to find/ make up reasons for us to withdraw from the U.N. When the time comes that they think they can get away with it they will move to destroy the U.N.
It is remarkable how consistent the conservative agenda has been over several generations.
If Progressives don't begin to believe even the most insane conservative goals are serious we are going to find ourselves living in robber baron heaven very soon.

Dan -- very well said. Why this continues to escape the most casual political observer, much less the entire Democratic establishment, is amazing. Then again, we did have eight years of Clinton studying the GOP classis agenda and looking for ways to co-opt some of that for himself -- including changing Social Security to something closer to what the GOP wants than what it is and has been.

As any good con artist will tell you, a scam only works on greedy people who are less than honest themselves. (A reason why cons are able to con other cons.) Bush/Cheney/Rove have become one of the greatest con artist teams of all time. Too bad average Americans won't get it until all their money has disappeared.

In 1981, Ronald Reagan declared that Social Security would be in crisis within 5 years. Why don't our media make note of this kind of stuff and hold the bastards accountable?

Turn the page in your history book, Griz, and tell me what Reagan did in 1983 regarding Social Security.

You'll get extra credit if you can detail how his actions in 1983 affect folks today.

Dan,

I think you're missing my point. We of course see the conservative agenda for what it really is. However, a frightening percentage of Americans (probably around half) buy into the Republican Party's facade on taxes, wars, and now Social Security. This is why the stealth agenda has worked so well for the past 25 years.

It would take an unbelievable amount of incompetence from congressional Democrats to let Bush's Social Security plan pass. He is a lame duck president with low approval ratings, and many in his party will desert him on that issue because they will be afraid of losing their seats in the next election. The Democrats now need to counter the Bush lies on Social Security, maybe come up with a counterproposal, sit tight, and watch the disaster that ensues. Currently, the Democrats have 45 senators. Even if the Republicans are completely united on this (which they won't be), barring Democratic cooperation, that bill could never pass, even with "Nellie" and maybe Baucus voting for it. And of the Republicans: Lincoln Chafee will not vote for it unless he really wants to lose his seat and Snowe and Collins will vote no.

Do you really believe that the Democrats don't have access to the same information we have? Get serious. They probably know a lot more than we do about the plan to dismantal Social Security. What I will never understand is why not one Democrat will stand up and tell the truth. While they are on the Sunday morning talk shows arguing about statistics and when and if SS will be in trouble, they should be instead telling the American people about the hidden agenda of the Republicans.

Bush has likely finally bitten off more than he can chew. He will go full steam ahead (Charge of the Light Brigade style) on Social Security privitization. He has another year (at most two) until he becomes essentially irrelevant. He will lose the Social Security fight, which will likely sap him of all influence he has with Congress. If we look at the other items on his agenda, he has little chance for success. Tax reform will go nowhere, because for every section of the tax code he tries to change, some special interest will be upset (and a complex tax code helps his big business buddies avoid taxes). The conservatives will kill immigration reform. So what does the road ahead hold? For 2005, mostly that Social Security fight. Bush will lose that fight and probably lose some GOP members of Congress in the midterms. Even if we don't get a majority back, the midterms will be seen as a repudiation of Bush. More importantly, the election season will kick off with primaries on both the Republican and Democratic sides, essentially pushing Bush out of the picture. The increasing violence in Iraq and his unpopular positions on Social Security will force the Republican nominee to distance themselves from Bush and will allow the Democrats to make the case for change. Assuming we field a competent nominee (which is far from a certainty for us) we will win in 2008. In the meantime, it would be best if congressional Democrats ignore Republican sabre rattling and actually obstruct the Republican agenda, unlike Tom "Green Light" Daschle, who contrary to being the "obstructionist" John Thune talked about, was instrumental in passing many ridiculous items of the Bush agenda and never stood up to Bush when he should have.

If this is the case, please explain the 1984 election results.

Walter and Geraldine lost.

Dick Cheney on Social Security reform

He lied about PIRATE-izing Social Security, and used information from an analysis showing the American economy in the shitter for the next 40 years with no population growth.

He failed to tell seniors that the Bush plan immediately leads to cuts in their benefits. And it does do that.

Turn the page in your history book, Griz, and tell me what Reagan did in 1983 regarding Social Security.

I'm not Griz, but I hit my buzzer first. Raised taxes on the middle class and gave business owners a 50% cut in their social security taxes, putting pressure on the system.

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding! I win, I win!

YuvaL,

I think you are missing my point. Most liberals see the conservative agenda and most of the non-political middle does not. The problem with the liberal approach is having seen the agenda for years they simply discount it as silly or impossible while the conservatives slowly but surely build a constituancy for their agenda items without any real counter program from the left. Liberals seem to think sarcasm & their personal distain should be enough to laugh the right into retreat and it only makes them more determined.

After years of building a base for their agenda almost unopposed the conservatives bring their agenda out of the closet. They have all the iniative, all of their talking points developed, their financing in place and they have lined up key supporters who they have been developing for years. Then and only then the liberals begin to mount a defense. It is like knowing that your house is infested with termites but deciding to wait until until the walls start to collapse to call the exterminators.

We have to quit picking our fights and fight all the time every time every item of the conservative agenda in an organized manner before it reachs critical mass. Maybe then, the majority of American's won't fall for the conserative agenda.

What's worse than one mess? Why two of course.

The neocons are set to take center stage and our nightmare only gets worse.

Get ready for Act II of the G. Warmonger Bu$h administration.

Seymour Hersh reveals in his The New Yorker article that military action is planned soon for Iran

This is why the stealth agenda has worked so well for the past 25 years.

It's worked really well. I see in today's paper, that over 70% of Americans now own their homes.

It's called "the ownership society," baby!

Give the people back their money; let them decide how to spend it.

We have to quit picking our fights and fight all the time every time ...

I would agree if the Marquess of Queensbury were the rule, but when one is playing GOP Calvinball and the rules change as you go, there is no way to win this fight. We are past the point where logic and reason can alter the course of events coming soon to a formerly free land near and dear to you.

I see in today's paper, that over 70% of Americans now own their homes.

And just who owns the notes they pay on every month, muck? One has possession of a property owned by the mortgage holder until the last payment is made. If you doubt me, just try not making that last payment and see if your house doesn't get repossessed!

Ownership society my dorsal port!

Muckrat:"Give the people back their money; let them decide how to spend it."

I agree completely. We have to raise the Capital Gains Tax to 50%, restore the top Federal tax rate to 50%, restore the Aristocracy[Estate] tax and increase it to 50%, eliminate bogus loopholes like massive life insurance policies and so-called charitable giving, eliminate the cap on taxable Social Security Income and eliminate all offshore tax-havens.

Having done that, we can eliminate Federal taxes on the bottom 80%.

When the idiot son begins inaugural day at St. John's Episcopal Church, I hope the message of the sermon begins with the always wonderful Martin Luther King:

"Any religion that professes to be concerned with the souls of men and is not concerned with the slums that damn them, the economic conditions that strangle them, and the social conditions that cripple them, is a dry-as-dust religion."

Followed by the Rev. William Sloan Coffin, chaplain of Yale University:

"Charity is a matter of personal attribute, justice is a matter of public policy. Never can the first be a substitute for the second."

Ending with a Bible reading of Matthew 25:31-46, with the admonishment that any Christian who fails to care for the "least of these," regardless of accepting Christ, spends an eternity in the great BBQ.

Of course, when a Tool uses religion as a tool, you get exactly what you expect. The worship of Mammon.

that over 70% of Americans now own their homes.

Come on down to a Red State. I'll show you some home ownership that'll make you reconsider what "homeownership" is really like for about half these "owners."