Jeez...this is just kinda depressing. Dunno how else to put it; I'm pretty shocked that Russ voted for her, and disappointed by Obama - though he does get a little latitude in that he needs some time to figure out how things work in the Senate.
But yeah - Biden? WTF?

She's basically window dressing anyway.

Diplomacy ranks right above increasing social programs on the list of priorities for this administration.

Choose your battles.

Real democracies have real opposition parties.

Chris Dodd (2008 ambitions)

ambitions to be CEO of Aetna? Connecticut is the lamest of the blue states. nelson, as has been pointed out, is a pandering kook. but Feingold, sheesh.

OT, Boxer/Clark (Clark/Boxer?) '08. Dean at DNC; clear out the dead wood.

Biden's fold is no surprise to me, but Feingold? I'm not sure I buy the "choose your battles" argument here. How would a protest vote have hurt him? I can't imagine that a vote opposing Rice would hurt him either in his next Senate re-election campaign or in the 2008 presidential primaries, should he choose to run. On the contrary, I would think a vote approving Rice would potentially hurt anyone running in the 2008 Dem primaries.

Something just occurred to me: Maybe Condi got assigned to State because Bush's other wife thought she should spend more time away from the U.S.

Choose your battles? I've got to agree with the poster above who said why would it even be an issue for feingold--or barack obama for that matter--? Half the country literally doesn't know who the secretary of whatever is, and could care less. Voting against her would have no political repercussions other than showing bush and some part of the country that the dems actually care about competence. I think every single senator should have led off by saying "I'm not going to condescend to you by complimenting you on how far you've come, lets cut right to the chase and talk about what you've actually accomplished" and then voted against her for her sheer incompetence. What on earth would they have had to lose?

biden makes me gag with rage.

aimai

That's my Joe. Rice tells him a blatant lie insisting that 120,000 Iraqis have been trained for security duty. Joltin Joe corrects her and puts the number at 4,000 then tells her to check into it.

The disconnect between the Beltway dems and the rest of us is staggering. Kudos to Boxer and Kerry. Major disappointmet in Feingold especially after he sat dumbfounded at some of Rice's gurglings.

Matt LOL, yeah guess Laura had to explain to him that all those trips to Camp David just didn't count as having Condi spend more time away.

Glad to see at least Boxer had someone standing with her today (Yeah Kerry), but I am most surprised with Feingold and especially Dodd after his line of questioning of her yesterday where Condi couldn't personally bring herself to say. Torture is NOT a value of mine.

Now off to email and send a note of thanks to the both of them.

CaLEEforYiA please vote against Diane Faintstein if and when she runs again.

I just sent a note to Obama telling him that his actions this morning were a great disappointment for the person who is supposed to represent the great hope of the party.

Great to see DEMS marching in lockstep with King George. Guess the election has DEMS looking over thier shoulder. To bad the Metro sexual botox man (Flip Kerry) didn't get it.
Chevy

I will indeed remember!

And for those who want to send Boxer thanks for her courage:
website: boxer.senate.gov/contact
DC phone:202-224-3553
SF phone:415-403-0100
(Her phones are very busy)

The dems as expected failed their first test. They are cowards and do not deserve our support. and by the way, say goodby to Social Security!

Joe Biden on National TV reverts to cussing about Rummy. Wow..He's really mad!!! Isn't this the same clown that had to resign himself from a presidential race for stealing someone's speech and passing it off as his own?

Lorraine, Obama voting against a sister would be political suicide.

Lorraine, Obama voting against a sister would be political suicide.

No. Running a race baiting demogogue like Alan Keyes against a thoughtful intelligent man like Obama was political suicide.

Anybody surprised by Feingold's vote shouldn't be. He was one of the few Dems who voted to confirm Ashcroft, and the reason he gave, as I remember, is that the President is entitled to choose his own cabinet.

That same principle still applies, so Feingold's vote was quite predictable.

Obama voting against a sister would be political suicide.

Wow, a real live KKKer is here in our mist!

I WILL NEVER AGAIN VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO SUPPORTED THIS WAR (like I voted for Kerry). We can't compromise anymore. The dems have to start being an opposition party or I will vote Green. Diane Feinstein is a disgrace - I will never vote for her. I will vote Green and if a Republican wins; its better than the witch of the west.

Look at it this way, we've doubled our votes against bushCo. Last week it was 1, this time it's 2, next time fffffour, etc!

Since this was just the committee approving her for a vote in the whole Senate maybe we can get our 4 there. Soon we'll have thousands voting our way!

You, guys, are crazy! This is not a battle at all. What would you have done? Get rid of Rice so a real neocon can take over? What's the point of a symbolic vote against? OK, give Boxer her due--she did something matched by only one other senator. But she's in a safe seat and her politics are so far out on a limb that it hardly makes any difference how she votes on any issue. Kerry's still stewing from November--if that man can ever be described as "stewing".

But I find other comments disturbing. First, the attacks on Feingold are unjustified--he's probably the most honest man in the Senate, if not in Congress, at the moment. And Obama is still another 6 months, at least, from voting for himself--right now, he's still on the learning curve and votes as he's been told. Biden plagiarized that 4000 figure anyway ;-) And I would not expect anything else from Dodd or Nelson, both weasles of the highest caliber (along with Lieberman and Feinstein, who, fortunately, are not in this committee).

Everyone's reading tealeaves on this one. There is no principled stand here and no one wants to be seen as being out in left field, unless they are already expected to be there (like Boxer).

As for 2008, there is not one person in the Senate now who'd be worth a vote in the primary (with a possible exception IMHO of Feingold, but he has no chance nationally).

The objective, factual case against Rice was so strong. Her incompetence, her troubles with truth, her devotion to partisanship at the expense of the national interest, are all right there on the record. This should have been a Democratic Bright Line.

Was it fear of Condi the Media Icon that made the Democrats bow down? If so, they were foolish.

This was an opportunity for a simple, honest statement of one very important difference between Democrats and Republicans:

Bush/Cheney's foreign policy has been characterized by dishonesty, political cronyism and incompetence. Bush/Cheney's foreign policy has been a failure. Condi Rice is a major architect and featured speaker in favor of Bush/Cheney's foreign policy. We do not support that policy and therefore we do not support Condi Rice.

Simple, honest, based on facts in the public record and important.

The congressional Democrats still don't understand why they are in the minority, why they lose elections and why they are held in contempt by Democrats and Republicans in the electorate.

First, the attacks on Feingold are unjustified--he's probably the most honest man in the Senate, if not in Congress

Honest is good; correct is better.

Implying that Obama had to vote for Rice because they're both black is racist. But perhaps that was your intent--to make a racist remark.

Learning curve? You mean this is the first time that Obama has heard of Rice or studied the foreign policy that came out of her office? He's not allowed to make principled decisions until he's had six months to figure out which side his toast is buttered on? Sorry. Not buying it.

THE DEMS PLAY IT SAFE AND ARE COWARDLY AND STILL LOSE! WHY NOT HAVE SOME INTEGRITY AND OPPOSE THE IMMORALITY OF BUSH AND HIS THUGS. IF YOU LOSE, YOU STILL HAVE YOUR SOUL, YOUR INTEGRITY. RIGHT NOW THE DEMS ONLY HAVE DISGRACE AND SHAME FOR NOT STANDING UP FOR AMERICA AGAINST A GANG OF NUTS WHO ARE DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY!
And you know what? If the dems had more courage, they would win more!

Boxer is not a radical - bush is the radical extremist!

Obama voting against a sister would be political suicide. Chevy

Wow, a real live KKKer is here in our mist!Posted by ga6thdem

Using your logic. 90% of Blacks who vote in lockstep for the DEM party Approx. 40% must be racist.
Chevy

Implying that Obama had to vote for Rice because they're both black is racist. But perhaps that was your intent--to make a racist remark. lorraine

Not at all. Telling it like it is using political satire. If you think that makes me racist all i can say is "Oh Well". Blacks do not see Dr Rice as another Alan Keys.
Chevy

Biden continues to be a mystery. Harsh criticism of Rice and Rummy, then a yes vote. You wonder, how does he sleep voting for a person he's spent two days tearing up. And Obama..........the honeymoon is over. This vote, my friends, is why the Dems get beat all the time. Do you, for a second, think the Repugs wouldn't vote party line NO if the table was turned?

Is Biden trying to put the Jedi grip on her in that pic or what?

Resist the Dark Side Joe!!!!

You wonder, how does he sleep voting for a person he's spent two days tearing up.

Ambien™. But also, a lot of Senators think that, since the Cabinet is within the Executive, they should confirm regardless.

It raises the question "why bother," but I'm starting to ask that question about the whole Democratic Party.

Well Matt, once it gets to the "why bother" stage.......marginalized might be too kind a description. But yes, tradition is that the Executive Branch nominates who they want for the Cabinet and Congress agrees with little or no debate. Since this Congress is lopsidedly GOP, it is little more than a rubber stamp for the Executive. However, when the Executive continues to nominate shills, incompetents and outright criminals, I'd say somebody might want to put on the brakes, if for no other reason than to show the wagon has brakes, even if they just squeal. "Why bother?"....because our damn country is going down the tubes, thats why.

While I agree with muckcat that Demos should choose their battles and Condi was a shoo-in anyway. I also think James E. Powell is absolutely right on the willful failures of the Bush/Cheney's War Diplomacy policy and the compelling need for a real opposition party. If the Democrats don't get it together very soon and mount an aggressive opposition to the Bush criminal regime, they will have surrendered any reason for Democratic voters to support them.

There was a third way for conscientious Dems like Feingold, Obama, Kennedy, and Biden to vote: formally abstain or vote 'present'.

It's OK for a true Opposition Party to recognize the reality that especially in this viciously right-wing Congress Bush is going to get the cabinet members he wants and deserves (short of falling-down drunks like John Tower and obvious thieves like Albert Fall). But that doesn't mean that opposition senators have to affirmatively "consent" to war criminals, liars, and incompetents like Condoleeza Rice in the cabinet.

Barbara Boxer's active opposition to Rice was heroic. At a minimum, her fellow Democrats should have signalled their solidarity by abstaining or voting "present".

Un-fucking-be-fucking-lievable. Only two Democrats voted against Rice? How in the wide, wide world of sports can that be explained? I know it will be explained away by the perps who betrayed the American people with their votes: Sarbanes, Obama, Biden, Dodd, Feingold, Nelson -- did I miss anyone? But all it did was reinforce my decision to leave the Democratic Party forever. If we can't have a party that will fight for what is right and fight against those who bring disgrace upon the American people, then I will spend my energies and my money trying to build a party that will.

I truly hate Republicans for what they are, but I'm learnign to hate Democrats even more for what they aren't: decent humanbeings.

Igor,
you are right - F the dems. If the tables were turned, all of the Republicans would have voted against! The bushies are criminals and the dems are letting them get away with the rape of our country. That makes the dems assesories. F em - the cowards!

Leaving aside the political advantages and disadvantages of voting for or against confirmtion of Rice, it must be said and recognized that Rice will be a terrible Secretary of State.

You've got to look at this situation for what it is, a show. Voting no is completily honorable. Abstaining would be a good out for senators who have a large 'red' population to worry about.
As for those voting yes, consider their past voting records. There are justifiable reasons to 'forgive' all except Dodd. Why Dodd even bothers to call himself a Democrat I don't know.

The true test is when meaningful long term votes like Supreme Court nominees come up. Considering their long term impact, there is no excuse for voting yes if a bad nominee is put up. Red state Democrats could be excused for abstaining in such cases, but only if the outcome of the vote isn't in doubt. After all, if the nominee is that bad the a senator worth having can through constituant service and their other votes overcome it.

It is conceivable that a senator on the committee, if he felt the nominee was a poor choice but met minimum qualifications for the position, would vote to move her nomination forward, out of respect not for her or for the president, but based on the principle that a president's nominee, if minimally qualified, should be allowed a vote by the full senate; the senator could then make his formal argument against the nominee, on the floor of the senate, and cast his vote against her at that time.

Feingold may follow this principle even further - he may cast his floor vote to confirm even if he feels the nominee is a poor choice, so long as he feels she is minimally qualified, out of respect for the perogative of a president to choose his cabinet.

In any case, though, a positive vote in the committee or on the floor would have to mean the senator feels the nominee is at least minimally qualified. Senators like Biden apparently think that one can be minimally qualified for holding a position in the line of succession of the presidency, even if one's resume includes general incompetence, intellectual dishonesty, and making poor decisions that have resulting in thousands of deaths. These senators would argue, I suppose, that the president himself won re-election despite such a resume; the majority of voters felt he was at least minimally qualified, and therefore, the senators might argue, Condi would likely be viewed by the majority of American voters as at least minimally qualified too.

(*Phew!* It's exhausting trying to conjure up a principled defense of such a vote!)

Will someone, with facts, please give me the information on Biden resiging from a presidential race for stealing someone's speech and passing it off as his own? Facts please.

I guess it's the battered senator syndrome, they've been getting bich slapped so long they just can't stop the cycle of abuse. What's wrong with standing up and saying "I'm not voting for her because she's not only a liar but she's also incompetent!". Fer, gawdsakes, she thinks "Osama determined to attack in the US" is not a warning. She also testified that now is the time for diplomacy. Gee, wouldn't that time have been BEFORE we killed and maimed tens or hundreds of thousands of people, spent $200 billion, and became despised around the world? You moron Senators just voted for this, not against it. Just what does it take for these people to say, "I'm not going to take this shit anymore", instead of "May I have another, Sir?"

I guess it's the battered senator syndrome, they've been getting bich slapped so long they just can't stop the cycle of abuse. What's wrong with standing up and saying "I'm not voting for her because she's not only a liar but she's also incompetent!". Fer, gawdsakes, she thinks "Osama determined to attack in the US" is not a warning. She also testified that now is the time for diplomacy. Gee, wouldn't that time have been BEFORE we killed and maimed tens or hundreds of thousands of people, spent $200 billion, and became despised around the world? You moron Senators just voted for this, not against it. Just what does it take for these people to say, "I'm not going to take this shit anymore", instead of "May I have another, Sir?"

I guess it's the battered senator syndrome, they've been getting bich slapped so long they just can't stop the cycle of abuse. What's wrong with standing up and saying "I'm not voting for her because she's not only a liar but she's also incompetent!". Fer, gawdsakes, she thinks "Osama determined to attack in the US" is not a warning. She also testified that now is the time for diplomacy. Gee, wouldn't that time have been BEFORE we killed and maimed tens or hundreds of thousands of people, spent $200 billion, and became despised around the world? You moron Senators just voted for this, not against it. Just what does it take for these people to say, "I'm not going to take this BS anymore", instead of "May I have another, Sir?"

I guess it's the battered senator syndrome, they've been getting bich slapped so long they just can't stop the cycle of abuse. What's wrong with standing up and saying "I'm not voting for her because she's not only a liar but she's also incompetent!". Fer, gawdsakes, she thinks "Osama determined to attack in the US" is not a warning. She also testified that now is the time for diplomacy. Gee, wouldn't that time have been BEFORE we killed and maimed tens or hundreds of thousands of people, spent $200 billion, and became despised around the world? You moron Senators just voted for this, not against it. Just what does it take for these people to say, "I'm not going to take this BS anymore", instead of "May I have another, Sir?"

Shit, who cares if she's confirmed? It's a totalitarian society kids--grow up and accept the fact! America as we knew it ten years ago is GONE! Get real! Understand! We're on our OWN! We have NO GOVERNMENT!

OFF TOPIC:

MoveWe needs your help to make it clear that the Social Security Administration is not another propaganda tool of the White House. Please take one minute to send a message. Call the Social Security Administration at the number below. Tell them you oppose Social Security privatization and you expect them to deliver straight facts -- not White House spin -- to the American people.

Call: 1-800-772-1213

After the greeting, dial 1 for English or 2 for Spanish.
Then press 3.
Then press 0 to speak to a representative.

After you make your call click on the link below to let us know.

http://www.moveon.org/socialsecurity/call/?id= 5059-3876511-h57qU80M7tCQ7LDmSAGxWQ

This isn't the first time government agencies have been used to deceive like this. The Times notes that, "The Bush administration ran afoul of a ban on 'covert propaganda' when it used tax money to promote the new Medicare drug benefit and to publicize the dangers of drug abuse by young people. The administration acknowledged paying a conservative commentator, Armstrong Williams, to promote its No Child Left Behind education policy. But on Social Security, unlike those issues, the government has not concealed its role."

We need your voice on this issue. We can't let them get away with this.

"Will someone, with facts, please give me the information on Biden resiging from a presidential race for stealing someone's speech and passing it off as his own? Facts please."Posted by Judith

Judy..If this is news to you..you best find another hobby. Lyin Joe entered the 1988 race but was forced out after he was accused of plagiarism in some of his speeches (Ref. speech by British Labor party leader Neil Kinnock) and in addition he was caught lying about his academic achievements while campaigning in New Hampshire. After the Kinnock incident he was also nailed for stealing a few lines from past DEM politicians. Typical DEM behavior. He's an embarrassment.
Chevy

Typical DEM behavior. He's an embarrassment.

If it were typical, who would be embarrassed?

I know, I know: Logic again--way too much for that peach-pit "brain" of yours to process. But again, this is our message board. If you're having trouble keeping up with thinking adults, there's always Free Republic.

Typical DEM behavior. He's an embarrassment.

If it were typical, who would be embarrassed?

I know, I know: Logic again--way too much for that peach-pit "brain" of yours to process. But again, this is our message board. If you're having trouble keeping up with thinking adults, there's always Free Republic.

Gee speaking of plagiarism...jeb's speechwriter . What an embarrassment that must be for Jeb.

Judith, I also remember a certain Iraq War Buddy of Junior's....think, think (there weren't that many)...oh yeah, Tony Blair the chap from England who plagiarized a Pre-War intelligence briefing he presented to Parliament that he cribbed from some student who wrote it for a thesis back in early 1990's. Isn't that funny how since ole Tony was a fan of the War that seems to escape some peoples' brain. What an embarrassment huh!

What is also amazing Judith is that Lying and deliberately deceiving Americans into a War(using Fake documents and cherry-picked, unvetted claims from dubious, unreliable sources) that has cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars is blindly overlooked by wingers. Especially when put into perspective comparing it to someone who plagiarize a speech.

Hmmm Lying us into a War costing thousands of Deaths and billions dollars, vs. plagiarizing a speech (which is inexcusable). It's kind of a bit hypocritical.

The wingers' hypocritical oathe..It's OK If You're A Republican. What an embarrassment!

Emal, good post. Republicans do seem to have a propensity to overlook their criminal activities or less than honorable behavior. They wanted to hang Clinton in a public square for his escapades, but torturing other human beings is not only okay, but preferred. And they wonder why we hate them so much.

Let me rephase that. And they wonder why we hate their policies and their belief system. (Actually, there are some I hate, and that is a very strong emotion).

Tonight on Charlie Rose, Biden and Hersh were both on separately. After listening to the bitting interview with Biden about Condi, I cannot believe he voted for her. Hersh reinterated his claims that Bush is running covert spy missions into Iran with the intention of taking military action. Then Perle is interviewed and tells Rose that Hersh's claims are a "fantasy" at best and his information is from disgruntled CIA people who have been fired. Once again everyone is lying except this Administration. Unbelieveable! Perle is also rattling the sabers against Syria.

Perle said that if the Bush can bring Democracy to the Middle East, then all the people will be happy and not prone to metamorphosis into terrorists. Who's living in a fantasy? What planet do these people live on????????????

Judith, Bu$hitler is obviously using Hersh for disinformation. You know: run it up the pole and see who salutes.

P.S. Did we ever discuss how CNN used to sit on unfavorable stories from inside Iraq to maintain their access to the Saddamites?

Did we ever discuss how CNN used to sit on unfavorable stories from inside Iraq to maintain their access to the Saddamites?

Unfavorable to whom?

I too saw Pearle on Charlie Rose last night. He is convinced that as he thought in Iraq, there is no nationalism in Iran and when operatives start sabotaging sights in Iran to bring
'liberation'...well, he didn't say roses at our feet but if his kind gets their wish we are going to have a mess that will make smaller Iraq look like child's play. Neoconservative bloodlust has no end.

If it were typical, who would be embarrassed?
I know, I know: Logic again--way too much for that peach-pit "brain" of yours to process. But again, this is our message board. If you're having trouble keeping up with thinking adults, there's always Free Republic."Posted by Matt Davis

Mat you're embarrassing yourself with that nonsense you wrote above.
I wrote "typical DEM behavior" I am describing the "TYPE" of behavior "DEM" and i find it embarrassing. DEM behavior does not imply ALL behavior. it implies a minority. EX: of DEM behavior. Boxer, the hillary screaming episode, Clintons presidency, Clinton family values, Sandy Berger stealing classified papers. Ted Kennady talking about water torture, Get the point? Now you tell me who has the peach pit brain around here.

Sandy Berger stealing classified papers.Chevy.

Prove it liar.

Did it ever occur to you, that the most vindictive and spiteful preznit in the world would have prosecuted Sandy Berger if they (meaning the WH) could physically Prove he stole classified papers.

Really Chevy, you have to actually read more than Charles's LGF site for reality based news. You're an embarrassment.

Prove it liar. Emal

Damn, Emals' hatred is in full swing..Go get em cowboy! BTW hater, Berger admitted to it. You need to stop getting your facts from leftwing lyin hate filled websites and go directly to the source
Chevy
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former national security adviser Samuel "Sandy" Berger is under criminal investigation by the Justice Department over allegations that he took secret documents from the National Archives while reviewing Clinton administration records for the 9/11 commission.

Sources said that among the documents Berger took were drafts of a Clinton administration "after-action" report on efforts to thwart the so-called "millennium plot," a suspected al Qaeda attack planned around the New Year's holiday in 1999.

Berger, said in a statement Monday that the removal of the papers was unintentional. LOL sure that's why the "thief" was caught stuffing them in his clothes vs his briefcase. Poor Emal...hosed again.

Chevy NEWSFLASH!
Chevy you are just too dumb to realize it but the date on your article is too Old!

A more recent July 31st, 2004 Wall Street Journal Article by Scott Paltrow (requires subscription but here is what is said on page A-6) Key graphs and my emphasis.with the Header.

Berger Cleared of Withholding Material From 9/11 Commission

Officials looking into the removal of classified documents from the National Archives by former Clinton National Security Adviser Samuel Berger say no original materials are missing and nothing Mr. Berger reviewed was withheld from the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper said officials there "are confident that there aren't any original documents missing in relation to this case." She said in most cases, Mr. Berger was given photocopies to review, and that in any event officials have accounted for all originals to which he had access.

That included all drafts of a so-called after-action report prepared by the White House and federal agencies in 2000 after the investigation into a foiled bombing plot aimed at the Millennium celebrations. That report and earlier drafts are at the center of allegations that Mr. Berger might have permanently removed some records from the archives. Some of the allegations have related to the possibility that drafts with handwritten notes on them may have disappeared, but Ms. Cooper said archives staff are confident those documents aren't missing either.

Daniel Marcus, general counsel of the 9/11 Commission, said the panel had been assured twice by the Justice Department that no originals were missing and that all of the material Mr. Berger had access to had been turned over to the commission. "We are told that the Justice Department is satisfied that we've seen everything that the archives saw," and "nothing was missing," he said.

Damn you are just too stupid Chevy and clearly misinformed.
This is from the Wall STreet Journal dated after the article you posted you fool.

Oh yeah and by the way Chevy, THERE WERE NO WMD's FOUND in IRAQ contrary to what Rush, and Fox News might continue to try to tell you.

God Chevy this is like taking candy from a baby here. I almost feel guilty, but you know what,it is clear You can't Handle the truth! What a dolt!

I love Condi Rice. I believe she the best (wo)man for the job ahead.She is not only outwardly beautiful, but also holds herself very well under pressure. Include her intellect and general world viewmakes her highly desirale. Would I marry her? In a heart beat.