If Novak is against him...it MUST be the right choice!

Economic justice, fairness, equal rights, veterans benefits, voting rights, Social Security, corporate greed.

Gee...can we win on those issues?

Do they strike at the heart of all that is wrong with the Republican platform?

If the voters vote against those things...they deserve what they get.

For more evidence of this, see Bull Moose.

I made much the same points at AlsoAlso yesterday:
http://alsoalso.typepad.com/also_also/2005/01/novak_dean_best.html

If Novak's warning Democrats against it, it must be the right choice.

helpfully linked in Attempt #2!

AlsoAlso

It has been clear since Dean entered the Presidential Nomination race a year ago that he is the one Dem that actually strikes fear into the GOP hierarchy. There are many reasons, but mostly just because he doesn't do what they want, unlike the Liebermans/Bidens of the world. The Democrat Party is at low ebb now, tetering on either extinction or uslessness. If Dean pushes it over that edge, so be it. But the louder the GOP screams about how bad he is, the more I like him. Before the Dems go away totally, can we just be on the offense, rather than defense, one more time?? Go Howard.

i a more republican than democrar but consider my self an astute observer of history......the elegies for the democrats remind me of the columns and speeches which buried the republican party in 1964.....that actually represented the pinnacle of the new deal coalition and only four years later the democratic decline had begun with the election of tricky dick......i think the rumors of the demise of the democratic party are rather exxaggerated and in my opiniom w's victory will some day be seen as the high water mark for the republican party in the barry goldwater/ronald reagan era........i think that citizens will rapidly tire of the iraq war and a stagnating economy....so hang in there my liberal friends ,your day will come soon.jjj

Bob leaks Plame's name but protects big Democratic donors? Give me a break. What self respection Dem speaks to him?

John,

I've been thinking about the Goldwater analogy lately. The attitude of the Democratic establishment toward the Goldwater/Reagan wing of the GOP shifted from triumphalist bemusement in 1964, to increasing worry in 1976 when Reagan almost defeated Ford in the GOP primaries, to sheer panic by 1980. It seems like this is happening again with the Republicans.

If Novak's referal to Dean's weakness on foreign policy translates to me as Dean being in touch with reality. Right now the Republicans are relaxing in the afterglow of the "sucessful Iraqi election."
In a very short time they and the country are going to see that the election was as sucessful as the hunt for WMD or the capture of Sadam or the appointment of Awali. It just is not going to change this war from a tragic blunder to a sucess story. Dean has a track record of being consistently anti-war. That is exactly what the Democrats need.

Is Level 3 also known as "Going Safire"?

We absolutely must have Dean as head of the DNC. John Kerry came frighteningly close to dragging the Democratic Party toward the center and building consensus with moderates, and we must make sure that never happens.

Better dead than red!

norbizness: Man, don't do that when I'm drinking. You know how hard it is to get coke out of the keyboard?

Lets just hope W. looks more like Johnson then Kennedy by 2008.

And if you think of the public trajectory of W. it will probably fit the combined trajectory of these two men.

in re the johnson kennedy comparison johnson was sad ,broken tragic figure in 1968 as vietnam engulfed him......jfk died before the 1964 campaign really geared up so we will never know how he would have fared. i have read that he relished the prospect of debate with barry goldwater and felt it would have provided a stark comparison of competing ideologies.alas ,we can only muse about what might have been on that one.....regarding the current president,the parallels with lbj and vietnam are eery.(hope that is how you spell that word.at least people will know that i wasnt referring to a lake.)i think this fellow will end up,to all of our detriment,the same pathetic figure.jjj

Cupcake=Level 2 (or a fairly lame parody thereof).

Of course, we know how BushCo used Kerry's "moderation" as a crucial GOP talking point during their campaign.

Yuval,

I agree with your observations. Although I am a humanist, I am praying to any god who might be out there for Dean to win the chairmanship of the DNC.

Jonathan

Jonathon- Just for my own education. What is a "humanist"? Is this a non-religious person? I'm so tired of all the labels flying around these days, Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, etc. I have gotten to the point I tell people, I am simply non-religious.

The Goldwater/1964 GOP analogy is crap. For one thing, Kerry and the Democrats didn't lose in a landslide. The Democrats' losses have been going on for more than a decade ---and that includes selling out the Left in 1996 with the Big Business-loving Bill Clinton, Co-Opter-in-Chief. But you goatee-strokers eat this stuff up because he feels your pain. Man.

For another thing, the factors that so greatly helped LBJ and the Democrats (a martryred President, huge strides forward with civil rights, huge shovelfuls of welfare statism, etc.) aren't there anymore.

As soon as you morons recognize that being against the war and against the spread of democracy is a loser for you, you'll get back to the middle and start talking about things that will earn you the respect of people like me: tax fairness, immigration reform, environmental protections, etc.

This ain't 1968. If the Democratic Party continues to lurch leftward on the war, you're going to wind up costing us a decent opposition.

[Y]ou goatee-strokers eat this stuff up because he feels your pain. Man.

First, I'm clean-shaven. Second, I hated what Clinton was doing then, and I hate what he did now. Once he lost on health care, it was a never-ending series of triangulations. (With the freakishly self-defeating exception of the "Don't Ask; Don't Tell" policy.)you goatee-strokers eat this stuff up because he feels your pain. Man.

But the facts are, Toby, that America won't even listen to a balanced view of American politics anymore--and that failure is largely due to a bunch of fuckheads like yourself constantly trying to intimidate people when they do stand up for the values that the Left has championed for decades, and which pampered white pansy-ass males like yourself consider yourselves above.

So shut the ever-loving fuck up.

Conservative America is confused by the "progressives" in the Democratic Party. They see their religious beliefs attacked by people who claim they are multiculturally-minded (so long as it's not Christianity practiced by whites). They see the man they support in the White House being vilified beyond all reason by Big Media and an array of moonbats. They see the military they support fighting a war they believe in being undermined to the point of treason ---and that is NOT an overstatement--- by a bunch of deranged groups who very much appear to hate this country.

The stuff that matters in our homes and in our working lives is being jeopardized by radical assholes who are so ideologically incoherent that they find themselves rooting for Muslim fanatics ---people who would as soon slaughter them as me.

Scrape that dogshit off your sandals and people won't look at you like you're Ward Churchill anymore.

what leftward lurch? we've been moving to the right for the past decade.

Hang on to your hat toby cause if you think this is leftish now you aint seen nothing yet. LEFTWARD HO!

oh and Toby as a republican why the hell do you think us DEMS will take any advice from you?

BUT Toby the Paulist Heresy that passes itself off as Christianity today is EVil and should be opposed at ALL costs...:-)

Toby,
You obviously don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. These are delusional fundamentalist christians who think Bush is Jesus and that Sponge Bob is going to turn all their children gay. They lap up every lie. They believe it when Fred Phelps tells them that people were arrested for reading the bible when in reality they were arrested for attempting to incite a riot.

If these people lived in the real world they would be extremely mad at Bush. He promises them that he will push their right wing agenda and then caves and then will bring it up time and time again when election time rolls around. They should be mad at Bush because he let OBL go free and he is still free and living large. They believe that it's always someone else's fault. They believe that deficits will magically disappear.

You are defending people who think that Sponge Bob and gays are a greater threat to America than OBL.

Whats that sound overhead? Oh, yeah, Toby, it's the black helicopters coming to take you away.

"and that includes selling out the Left in 1996 with the Big Business-loving Bill Clinton, Co-Opter-in-Chief"

You're right about that. Clinton fooled us with that V-chip while handing over the airwaves to Big Biz. Telecommunications Bill anyone? The final destruction of local and independent media.

But it ain't just the left. None of us benefit from an oligapoly. Listened to the radio lately? That was the first to go under the Clinton sellout.

That's an outstanding example, Daryl.

but Toby guess what, by supporting Bush and his agenda that makes YOU evil too.

THe road to hell IS paved with good intentions

Hello Triatalot,

Your question "What is a "humanist" is a good one, and your definition of non-religious is a reasonable one.

You can find a more complete definition at:
http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/definitions.htm

Hope that helps.

Jonathan.

Hello Triatalot,

For the benefit of all, I should just simply state the definition given by the American Humanist Association:

"Humanism is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives capable of adding to the greater good of humanity." American Humanist Association.

I think it pretty well sums up what I stand for. You can find similar definitions at:
You can find a more complete definition at:
http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/definitions.htm

Jonathan.

Why, exactly, should Republicans' comments on the Democratic Party Chairmanship influence the selection of a party that goes counter to their view of the world?

I suspect that if Novak et al are opposed to Dean, that is a good thing.

Toby,

Thanks for being such a sport by proving my EXACT point with your "you Democrats will never win another election!" wails.

The check is in the mail.

Let's see how long it takes before Level Three of the troll typology--sputtering, terrified incoherence--is reached.

Yuval, according to my calculations the first post here on this thread that resembled that troll typology you desrcibed occurred at a 3:30 PM (assuming PST) and your original post was at 8:53AM (PST)....it took only 6 hours and 37 minutes.
My only question is what took so long for him to show up here???? I guess he was polishing his keyboard and computer screen while getting ready to serve his country spreading democracy abroad aka imperialism (something that he is passionate about) from the safety and comfort of his home stateside. Talking the talk is easy...I want to see him Walk the walk....

Now time to go "scrape the snow off my LLBean Boots" to take a meals to an elderly parent, a Retired Air Force Officer, who btw can't stand aWol and the gang, because Commander Chickenhawk in said parent's words," is devastating and dishonoring the military and turning his back on the Veterans with his foolish War".

>My only dilemma is...do I drop off the meals before I go buy a new pair of "sandals" or after ;~P

My only dilemma is...do I drop off the meals before I go buy a new pair of "sandals" or after

Jeez, emal, us "hippies" can never have too many "sandals." Get some before and after. :)

Drive safe.

Hello emal,

You are right about our Chickenhawk Mis-leader. But he is not the only chickenhawk. You can see the whole lot of them at:

Jonathan

We always know we are on the track that threatenes Republicans when they start being concerned about our futures and who we nominate.

Yuval, you're really stretching this whole definition of a troll, aren't you?

Not incidentally, I've already said that your party should make Dean its chair. Why not? You think his "Yeeaaarrrgghhh!!!" moment is going to be all the rebuttal a Republican will need when Dean makes a good point?

Have some balls.

Yuval, you're really stretching this whole definition of a troll, aren't you?

There's a literary conceit--in Blue States, anyway--called "extended metaphor."

Learn it. Know it. Love it.

Matt, I second your second paragraph. Well said.

who cares about you and your arguement.
your stint on this skrid is tedious.

looking for converts here is like getting you to iraq to vote. maybe you could go to aceh and redeem your trollness into becoming a human being.

or better go sniff glenn renolds whatever. he needs to surround himself with your ilk.

I'm a neocon and Im overjoyed at the prospect (and have posted to this effect elsewhere on this site).

Enjoy your fruitcake and Kool-Aid. YIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHH!!!!!!

Toby is still with us at LC? CCCCaaahhhhrrissst! After the so-called free elections in Iraq, the DNC has a hard-assed act to follow. My best to Howie.

MarcusAgrippa,

You say: "I'm a neocon and Im overjoyed at the prospect (and have posted to this effect elsewhere on this site)."

Thank you very much for your concern about the Democrats. We believe it is better to fight for truth and justice than give in to neocons who are basically hypocritical cowards.

Jonathan

What is a "humanist"?

Someone who believes in the potential of all people, and acknowledges the diginity and worth of all human beings. Someone willing to accept a person for who and what they are without judgement, and even in the instance where they must judge a person a humanist still provides unconditional positive regard to that person.

These are the basics. If you're interested you can spend your life studying humanism, and probably be a happy person for it.

Toby's sputtering incoherence reminds me of this quote from Voltaire: "My prayer to God is a very short one: O Lord, make my enemies look ridiculous! God has granted it."

Now Toby, I know it's Carnival/Mardi Gras season, but you're not required to play the buffoon everywhere, y'know...

Let's see... I need a snarky redstate nickname. (How about "Hubba Bubba.") Then I need some grammatical errors... I mean erorrs... to show how skared I is. Then I need to say that picking Dean is going to be bad for Demokrats...

The problem is, I really DO think picking Dean is going to be bad for Democrats. I used to be a Democrat, back before I got wedged by Reagan. When Hillary talks about respecting what motivates pro-lifers, I sit up and listen. When she talks about taking faith-based people seriously, I turn up the radio.

The problem I see for Democrats is that Hillary seems to know exactly what it's going to take to win Arkansas, while Dean has exactly what it takes to keep San Francisco blue. Hillary can count electoral votes, and realizes that you have to win Arkansas to get back to that big white house on Pennsylvania Avenue. If she decides she has to come out against Darwinian evolution to win, do you really think she will hesitate?

I can't see how the Democratic Party is going to handle the potential tension between the new St. Hillary and the die-hards in the reality based community.

So: I wish you well, gang. Here's my prediction: Hillary wins the nomination in '08, conservatives go ballistic trying to demonize her, and the American mainstream reacts against their obvious meanness by electing her.

"So: I wish you well, gang. Here's my prediction: Hillary wins the nomination in '08, conservatives go ballistic trying to demonize her, and the American mainstream reacts against their obvious meanness by electing her."

Maybe, if she does get the nomination she must defend herself when the 2008 version of 'swift boat lying' happens to her. Remember any negitive attack reguardless of its truthfulness is assumed true if not fiercely denied at once. If you don't believe me ask president Kerry.

The problem I see for Democrats is that Hillary seems to know exactly what it's going to take to win Arkansas, while Dean has exactly what it takes to keep San Francisco blue. Hillary can count electoral votes, and realizes that you have to win Arkansas to get back to that big white house on Pennsylvania Avenue. If she decides she has to come out against Darwinian evolution to win, do you really think she will hesitate?

Actually, that belief ("She'll do, say, or support anything to win") is why it was so damn easy to stick Kerry with the flip-flopper meme.

It wasn't just his Senate record, it was the fact that since 1992, Democrats haven't been standing up for jack shit.

We act ashamed of our views, act like our issues can be bought and sold, and is it any surprise that the public believes it?