BushCo's inverted Eichmann defense:

"We only gave the orders."

Goddammit, this kind of thing pisses me off to no end...

Hzng prnks nd hmltn flls fr shrt f trtr. vrstffng prsn wth srgns wld shrtchng r wn sldrs' mdcl trtmnt n thr hr f nd. Th tstmny f swrn nmy gnst thr cptrs s hrdly cnvncng ccnt.

If what happened at Abu Ghraib is torture, then I dare say I've seen "torture" taking place at fetish parties in the past.
Look lets get things in perspective okay: Yes, it may have been a humiliating and not a particularly pleasant experience for these terrorists (though neither is getting blown up by a rocket propelled grenade.... so I hear) but torture it freakin' well ain't.

Mikhail above says "it pisses him of no end..."....
Well I'd like to challenge yo on that Mikhail.... I think you're lying. Why the hell would you give a donkey's cock what happens to some anonimous iraqi, who you don't know, and never will being slapped around a wee bit and forced to undergo the same kind of "torture" I used to witness in the school playground (again, not pleasant I know... but .... torture??? Nah!!!).
Now then Mikhail, I'd like to know how the treatement of US captives (civilian I might add) by the same kind of "victims" in the photos; affects you. Does that piss you off, or is it only the unfortunate plights of complete strangers that stir your emotions??? I only ask because, it really does show a difference in degrees of civilization doesn't it.... and I'm sorry but lads vent their frustration, lads stuck in a desert shit hole at the other side of the planet who see their friends getting maimed or capped off , by religious freaks and for the great cause of who knows what; tend to vent their frustration on their enemies.... if those enemies happen to be bound and shackled at the time, then thats their tough shit for A) Getting Caught. B) Fighting against far superior soldiers. C) (possibly) Killing US troops (I say possibly , because maybe...just maybe..... the "torture" is about vengeance, don't tell me none of you little Mr and Mrs Perfects have never tried to get your own back on someone.... well soldiers do it to the bastards who were shooting at them.

Has to be said though at least they don't do it to civilians with bombs strapped to their chests, or just to civilians...period (IE- ones who have commited the crime of voting , or getting a job, thereby instantly becoming "kaffir/infidels") or hack off their heads live on the internet.

Yoo's assertion a referendum has been held and Bush's sweeping powers and the methods he wields them vindicated and validated is true. When terrorists kill Americans they are assured roughly 52% of the deaths they cause are deserved, as that is the statistical probability in a random sampling that voted for Bush. The others are unfortunate collateral damage, similar to the innocent men, women and children we murder in pursuit of terrorists overseas. By our actions and deeds the U.S. has earned the very worst the world's bad actors can deliver. May they proceed with a vengence and wreck havoc on our shores. Enough of you stupid bastards get killed for Bush's criminal hubris maybe those surviving will rethink the matter upon entering the voting booth. If not and you continue to sanction the bloodshed then bloodshed you'll continue to receive in return.

God Bless GW and the republicans for putting an end to democrats tortuing newborn babies by sucking thier brains out during birth. DEMORATS Clinton, Pelosi, etc. voted against banning the torturing/killing new born babies. DEMS are in no position to complaign about Abu prison when they commit the most vile acts of tortue known to man.

K.A....Nice Post. However you can't reason with these people. They're Nuts!! Best and only way to deal with demorats is throw it right back in thier face and put them on the defensive. These are the same people that favor tortuing a newborns 1st day of life by torturing it to termination. DEMS have a "current issue" only memory. They need a wakeup call now and then to remind them of what they are.

Hmm, murder and amputation are "hazing" and "humiliation pranks"? Which fraternity do you belong to, Bendito, Delta Delta Death Squad? I suppose Auschwitz was a resort center in your moral universe, and you'd be okay starving detainees to death because feeding them would divert food from soldiers.

And K.A., by the military's own account, the vast majority of Abu Ghraib prisoners at the time the torture scandal broke had been detaineed for minor violations and, after the revelations of torture, were immediately released. Immediately released.

At least Chevy sees that the practices unleashed by President George W Bush and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales as equivalent to something he sees as murder. Maybe Bendito's fraternity advocates abortion as a hazing prank for sorority sisters, and K.A. dishes out torture, murder and amputation as punishment for sworn curfew-breakers. Ja. Ist gut!

Thanks, all, for insights in moralmushheadedthinking. It's fun to follow the fuhrer!

If what happened at Abu Ghraib is torture, then I dare say I've seen "torture" taking place at fetish parties in the past.

K.A.,

If you can't understand the difference between those two circumstances than you are no better than the terrorist who does not discriminate between combatants and civilians.

Has anyone ever actually ceased living at one of your fetish parties?

Chevy, Chickenshit Bendito and KA.

We fought WW2 without having to resort to this crap.

Thanks to you and your fellow clown travelers, America is fast becoming a third rate bannanna republic.

You fellows are having war penis envy. The greatest generataion fought a stirring and just war to eradicate just the sort of thing you seem to enjoy i.e. torture etc. Waterboarding is not a fetish or prank. Untill you have it done to you then you should STFU.

If you are not currently enlisted and awaiting orders, you should STFU. Common decency demands it.

But I can tell by your posts you dont even know what common decency is.

I enlisted at 18. Not for college money, but because I would never ask anybody to do something I wouldnt do. I know you have a hard time getting your tiny reptile brains around that concept but there it is.

That said, the America of banded tail screech monky bush cult is not he America I would fight and die for. But I will fight and die(and kill) to get the real America back.

Which means I will be seeing you soon.

Through my ART2 scope. Feel that 7.62 love baby.

Wow! You must have struck a nerve here to get a level 3 troll agitation.

I never knew that waterboarding was a common thing in school playgrounds or fetish parties.

I was also unaware that it is okay to abuse known innocents who get caught in an indiscriminate dragnet.

Please take your occult pagan rituals and their insane demands to equate a fetus with a functioning human being over to your local alchemist. I'm sure they can turn that bullshit into shiny new Republic rhetoric!

K.A....Nice Post. However you can't reason with these people. They're Nuts!! Best and only way to deal with demorats is throw it right back in thier face and put them on the defensive. These are the same people that favor tortuing a newborns 1st day of life by torturing it to termination. DEMS have a "current issue" only memory. They need a wakeup call now and then to remind them of what they are.

Posted by Chevy at February 8, 2005 05:43 AM

Looked in a mirror lately, ShoveIt? Republic tactic number 2: accuse the opposition of what you are yourself doing. No need to defend against the insane ramblings of these Republic theofascists based on their occult pagan hypocrisy.

In a just world, these bastiches would have their own children indiscriminately rounded up and "hazed" for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And then lectured by the "hazers" as to why they should be happy that they're being abused. While they are presented with the corpses of those they hold dear.

The time is long past for trying to deal with occult superstition, or those who promote it, in a rational manner. They have forfeited the right to be considered anything but the gutter filth that they are. And to be dealt with in a manner appropriate to their misguided pagan beliefs.

Through my ART2 scope. Feel that 7.62 love baby.

Ahem. No death threats, please, no matter how much the slime may seem to warrant them.

The ART2 is a mighty nice scope, though. As we creep toward Armageddon, it's definitely on my survivalist wish list.

Don't ya just love how the Flying Monkey Right likes to have it both ways? They contend "X" or "Y" isn't torture, but then go on to give a spirited defense of torture anyway.

We will never forget has turned into Hey, this is FUN.

How tragic it is that a nation of sadistic, mentally ill misanthropes has destroyed whatever lofty ideals America once stood for.

I choose to see it as less than half a nation of sadistic, mentally ill misanthropes has done this.

It seems to me that if these end times that these "people" are always frothing about were to actually occur, you have to figure that "GOD" might be omnipotent enough to figure out the essential truths that lay beneath professed truths, that actions truly do speak louder then words, and that some folks are gonna be mighty disappointed when the time comes.

If you believe in that sorta thing.

Hazing pranks and humiliation falls far short of torture.

That must have been quite a fraternity initiation you had, Bendito. Give us more details about how much you enjoyed being stripped naked and having that lightstick shoved up your ass.

Looked in a mirror lately, ShoveIt? Republic tactic number 2: accuse the opposition of what you are yourself doing. No need to defend against the insane ramblings of these Republic theofascists based on their occult pagan hypocrisy.Tom

Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Republicans banned patial birth abortion while dems fought for the right to torture a newborn by sucking its brains out while it's strugging for survival. You DEMS have no business talking about torture to anyone. Do you hear me boy?
Chevy

Who's the hypocrite? The Republicans will cry for the aborted, but dance in the streets for killing or torturing detainees.

I hate self-righteous pricks. (Sorry for the language, but that's what I feel).

The Number of Abortions after the First Trimester Is Relatively Small

The CDC estimates that 58 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 88 percent are performed within the first 12 weeks. Only 1.5 percent occur after 20 weeks (CDC, 2003).

THAT'S RIGHT, ONLY 1.5%!

Since the nationwide legalization of abortion in 1973, the proportion of abortions performed after the first trimester has decreased because of increased access to and knowledge about safe, legal abortion services (Gold, 2003).

Medical indications may lead to abortion after 12 weeks. Discovery of serious fetal anomalies, such as severe genetic disorders, or conditions in which the woman's health is threatened or aggravated by continuing her pregnancy include

certain types of infections

heart failure

malignant hypertension, including preeclampsia

out-of-control diabetes

serious renal disease

severe depression

suicidal tendencies

So the next time some Right-wing hypocrit makes it sound like we are taking full-term babies and killing them in record numbers, tell them to shove it.

"He(Yoo) went on to suggest that President Bush’s victory in the 2004 election, along with the relatively mild challenge to Gonzales mounted by the Democrats in Congress, was "proof that the debate(on torture) is over." He said, "The issue is dying out. The public has had its referendum." "

The Salazar 6 who claim other reasons for supporting Alberto Gonzales, now have the issue of torture pushed back in their face by their "friends." Yoo himself admits the vote on the "torture" referendum included the Gonzales vote. And guess who supported the referendum? Yes, guys the vote on Gonzales was about torture and you voted "aye".

By-the-way, for the uneducated, 3rd trimester abortions have to have approval from a board of doctors. One just doesn't walk into a clinic and say "I want an abortion."

And another point, no one who is pro-choice is for abortions, but they are for the right of the women to make that decision for herself (instead of some castrated male).

READ MY POST: NO PRO-CHOICE GROUP OR PERSON IS FOR ABORTION. GOT IT?

GONZALES ADDED TO WAR CRIMES COMPLAINT IN GERMANY; NEW EVIDENCE SHOWS FAY REPORT ON ABU GHRAIB PROTECTED OFFICIALS

As he well deserves!

Snarky Shark,
If it was left to you Iraq would be overun be islamo-facists, who are WORSE, than the nazi bastards you beat in WW2.

K.A.,

Thanks to George Bush Iraq is now over run by Islamo-fascists.

Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Republicans banned patial birth abortion while dems fought for the right to torture a newborn by sucking its brains out while it's strugging for survival. You DEMS have no business talking about torture to anyone. Do you hear me boy?
Chevy

Posted by Chevy at February 8, 2005 04:30 PM

I hear the ramblings of religiofascist lunatic.

And you can shove that boy stuff up your posterior orifice. Republics have tried to change the definition of a human being to suit their pagan occult ritualistic beliefs. And added incendiary rhetoric at every turn. And threatened and harrassed anyone who disagreed with them. And now equate a rarely used medical procedure with the systematic, Republic-ruler sanctioned torture of innocent people.

You Republics have no business talking about morality, ethics, fiscal sanity, civil discourse, or occult pagan superstitions. For starters.

Did you catch all of that, a$$wipe? Or should we shout it into your ears a few more times until it finally connects with that pea-brain inside your melon?

(:Tom:),

Give Chevy a break.

At least he understands the basic concept;

Republican = ban it if you don't like it.

Democrat = fight for the rights of individuals.

Sorry. No breaks for any Republics any more. Use their own standards to deal with them.

Would you expect to be given any leeway from this abomination or any of the other Republic religiofascists who come here?

I have a huge problem with that basic concept outlined above. To begin with, you show that you have bought into the Republic framing by using Democrat instead of Democratic, and then Republican. I much prefer the very accurately descriptive Repugnicant, but Republic would be using their own standards in terminology. And then you make it appear that the two philosophies are somewhat equivalent - which is something else I have a bit of difficulty accepting. Sorta like my difficulty in accepting a religiofascist saying that a D&E procedure on a fetus in utero is torturing a newborn because their pagan occult superstitions tell them that it is so.

My apologies for the unbending stance. Progressives have been religiously (cough) victimized by Republics for over twenty years now. We have to stop letting them run roughshod over everyone who dares disagree with them, and call them on their kimchee whenever and wherever we see it, or we are guilty of letting them get away with it.

(:Tom:),

I'm not a Democrat...er Democratic....er Democrat... oh I get so confused.

I mean. I am a Democrat is unacceptable?

Where can I sign up for deprogramming. I didn't realize I had been infected. Help me please!!!

Anyway.

It was a joke. Republicans ban things. Democrats (sorry if that's incorrect) support rights. I'm not seeing the problem there but I don't have quite as big a chip on my shoulder as you seem to. I guess that gives you the right to run roughshod over those who disagree with you.

Lighten up.

Snarky Shark,
If it was left to you Iraq would be overun be islamo-facists, who are WORSE, than the nazi bastards you beat in WW2.

If you really believe that then you dont have a freakin clue.

Genocide as compared to a security breach. From someone we trained to do the same to the russians.

Try reading a book sometime.

You did prove my point about war penis envy though.

WAAAHHH! the greatest generation had a neato war and we want one too!

sick bastard

"My apologies for the unbending stance. Progressives have been religiously (cough) victimized by Republics for over twenty years now. We have to stop letting them run roughshod over everyone who dares disagree with them, and call them on their kimchee whenever and wherever we see it, or we are guilty of letting them get away with it." Tom

There's nothing to apoligize for Tom. Like you I
refuse to live down to the sterotype of the wimpy liberel who won't fight back and always loses. Before 1968 liberalism was known as a fighting faith and if we don't recover the will to win, to fight back against the chickenhawks of the right this country is going to continue on a downward trajectory.

Opposing a war because you believe it is wrong does not mean that you will not fight. In the past I've noticed traveling trolls who pop up and spout off and then disappear after we retort.
That's one thing I like about TL bloggers:We fight back. FDR knew how to fight, Truman knew how to fight and so did Jack Kennedy. This country is on a dangerous path in so many ways and is going to need fighting liberals who aren't afraid to look to the past for inspiration as they help this nation and world adapt to the new challenges that the right will prove unable to cope with.

I hear the ramblings of religiofascist lunatic.

And you can shove that boy stuff up your posterior orifice. Republics have tried to change the definition of a human being to suit their pagan occult ritualistic beliefs. And added incendiary rhetoric at every turn. And threatened and harrassed anyone who disagreed with them. And now equate a rarely used medical procedure with the systematic, Republic-ruler sanctioned torture of innocent people.

You Republics have no business talking about morality, ethics, fiscal sanity, civil discourse, or occult pagan superstitions. For starters.

Did you catch all of that, a$$wipe? Or should we shout it into your ears a few more times until it finally connects with that pea-brain inside your melon?

Posted By Tom

Tom ,
why is it that you think everyone against abortion is religious?
Maybe we just don't like the thought of a baby not having the same right to "choose" that the silly slut who got knocked up, because she couldn't be bothered with the hassle of sliding a condom over the cock of the anonymous stud she screwed in a drunken stupor 9 months previously.

A life is a life, maybe that child could grow up to be the person that cures santa, or god forbid ,changes the US into a communist state.
An embryo lives, in fact I dare say they're a hell of a lot more human than you sickos who protest for the right to slaughter them.
Actually it's a shame you weren't aborted.

SnarkyShark,
Instant hostilty to someone you disagree with.... bit insane that really isn't it? Is that the war-mongering right-winger in you coming out (personality number ?)??

The basic point I was trying to make is the same islamic fundamentalists (who make up the majority of the insurgency... most of whom , I might add aren't even iraqis, apart from the privaledge-sick sunnis, who aren't getting their own way anymore so have decided to have a tantrum and kill lots of people) are no better than the nazis you're whinging on about.
They are part of a totalitirian movement (disguised as a religion), and want the own brand of dogma interwoven into politics to be that which governs all.

If you don't believe that, then you're the one who has no freakin' clue.... geddit freak?

One more thing, Judith you're one nasty bitch.
Stop calling it "choice", it's so cliched and annoying. Does the baby get a choice??? Nooooo!!!
If it turns out the baby may be born deformed or sick then yes abortion is necessary, but not just for any old slapper to have an excuse to get pregnant as much as she damn well pleases.

Get your collar loosened.

An embryo lives, in fact I dare say they're a hell of a lot more human than you sickos who protest for the right to slaughter them.

K.A.,

So obviously you feel that the state would have an obligation to care for all these children that it would mandate be brought into the world?

I suppose you would be willing to couch up some tax dollars to do so?

I know Judith and she aint a bitch...but you K.A. sure as hell sound like one......you want to return to the time of back alley abortions for those who can't pay off a doctor....so you're a dumb bitch too!

If it was left to you Iraq would be overun be islamo-facists, who are WORSE, than the nazi bastards you beat in WW2.

This is your first quote buttmunch.

The basic point I was trying to make is the same islamic fundamentalists (who make up the majority of the insurgency... most of whom , I might add aren't even iraqis, apart from the privaledge-sick sunnis, who aren't getting their own way anymore so have decided to have a tantrum and kill lots of people) are no better than the nazis you're whinging on about.

second quote buttmunch.

you are crawfishing there boy. In the first quote yopu call them worse. Then realizing how freakin stupid that sounds, you then say they are equal.

Then you go on to state what the insurgants are and are not. Which is funny cause even our own intellenge people with their cattle prods and glowsticks still dont seem to know.

So for that you get the Jonah Golberg award for knowing less than nothing, but dont let that stop you from spouting your drivil, as I find it highly ammusing.

Got it you freak?

SnarkyShark,

Nice name btw.

N.A.'s almost too pathetic for words. It struck me as well that in his(her) initial comment he implied that had we not invaded Iraq it would have been over run by Islamofascists and in his clarification of his point he points out that the Islamofascists in question are not even Iraqi. So one can only assume that said Islamofascists over ran Iraq because of the actions that K.A. supported, ie the removal of Hussein. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of evidence K.A. has to support the assertion that had Hussein remained in power Iraq would now be over run by Islamofascists. I just don't see it.

Hussein was a Baathist dictator. Simply put, Baathism is an Islamic form of Fascism. Fascism is a secular form of dictatorship. It is secular because the goal of Fascism is to glorify and expand state power embodied in the leader. This is usually done through military actions. A religious dictatorship like current day Iran is interested in using state power to bring goals centered on another world into this world. A religious dictatorship is insular except for the fact that it wants to export the religious belief behind its power to other states. This is most often done by supporting groups in other nations that share their religious extremism, if these groups be terrorists they're O.K. with that. Secular Fascism on the other hand most often directly attacks militarilly as Iraq did to Iran in 1980.

The last thing any dictator wants in his country is a rival for power. That is why I never believed that Hussein was harboring Islamic terrorists inside his borders. It would have been asking for trouble.

Another point, the phrase 'Islamofascism' is an oxymoron created by the America's neoconservitives. As noted above Fascism by its nature is secular although it manipulates the local religion for its purpose as Hussein did in Iraq.

To extend this point, America's religious right is not Fascist although it is a risk of being manipulated by Fascistic elements. An example would be America's abortion question. The religious right is strongly anti-abortion yet a fascist ally like the KKK would part company with them (after power was gained of course) on the idea of eugenics-i.e. aborting the 'weak' be they jews, blacks ect. would be O.K. to the Fascists. The religious right would do well to study the motives those who wish to allign with them. If this nightmare were played out there would come a point after the horrors began where the current religious right would be allied in the underground with us that are now considered the center and the left.

you are crawfishing there boy. In the first quote yopu call them worse. Then realizing how freakin stupid that sounds, you then say they are equal.

Then you go on to state what the insurgants are and are not. Which is funny cause even our own intellenge people with their cattle prods and glowsticks still dont seem to know.

So for that you get the Jonah Golberg award for knowing less than nothing, but dont let that stop you from spouting your drivil, as I find it highly ammusing.

Got it you freak?

Whined Snarky Shark,
I meant the same....no worse..... no changed my mind again: the same....... oh actually no they're much worse (the point of this little indecisive episode being: AREN'T WE A PICKY LITTLE SO-AND SO??? Such depth to your argument, your only counter being my choice of words.... I bow to you).

Maybe you should start calling yourself "Picky Pick".

Allow me to put it another way, in ideology terms they're as bad as each other.... both have world dominion in their sites, both are intolerant of other cultures (in the extremist muslims case all non-muslims, in the nazis case all non whites), both hate jews, and both have their political and dogmatic elements.

However if we look at them in terms of scale and numbers islam is much worse, because they are spread across the planet on every continent, they blend into society amongst normal muslims, they have the power to convert moderate muslims into the same kind of islamo-facists as them by propaganda and religious brain-washing and they're getting a lot further than the nazis ever did, because the world accepted the truth of the nazis world dominance , whereas PC western society refuses to acknowledge the sever threat of the islamic conquest and pretend it's just "a few fucked up muslims" (the truth is far more terrifying, explaining the denial of so many).

Hope thats clear enough.

Oh yeah BTW, for the geezer who said "Judith's not a bitch" , I'll just say : Maybe not to you, because you're a lefty, therfore an ally (such is the shallowness of the left-wing thought process).

....yet you don't deny being a dumb bitch. Or is it YOU'RE just bitchy to those who don't agree with YOU? Therefore YOUR thought process is shallow.

Geezer,
Bitch does not compute...
Wrong sex ass-wad!!!!

K.A.

I mearly pointed out how you have no consistincy.

But thats what happens when you pull shit out of your ass.

Are therer lines around the corner to enlist like in world war 2?

Have we quit making cars and civil aircraft to devote our manufacturing to war goods?

Gas rationing?

Apparently your wonderfull dear leader doesnt think WOT=WW2

Since you are willing to sell all our freedoms down the river cause you are scared some swarthy brown man is going to crash a 767 into your trailer park, then best you go enlist boy.

Sitting on your fat pimply ass trying to diss me is doing nothing.

Write back when you are in Bagdad

K.A., "bitch" is an equal opportunity insult....I've known plenty of "bitches" that are women, and plenty that are men. And you fall right into the category of "bitch."
And I'm not that old but if you call me geezer, that's alright. If agism is another thing you "divide and conquer" types like to use, I'm not going to argue. It just proves that you're a.....bitch.