Steve,
It really puts a those privatization numbers in a different light, doesn't it. If the numbers are this bad in a poll skewed toward the GOP, then the program really is dead.

We need to send this post to Keith Olberman. He's the only one who might give your findings some play.

Just like the fake reported Gannon and this fake pole - THIS IS DEMOCRACY DAMIT AND WE ARE GOING TO SPREAD THIS FUCKING DEMOCRACY THROUGHOUT THE WORLD SO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TAKE IT OR WE WILL NUKE YOUR TERRORIST ASS!

Let me do this one.

Top 10 Reasons Democrats Don't Respond to Presidential Polls

10. No phone service when you live under a bridge.

9. They don't know who is President.

8. They think the pollster is an undercover cop.

7. Their phone lines are busy, because they're trying to call and curse out Rush Limbaugh.

6. They don't answer their phones, because they're having a meal down at the Salvation Army.

5. No personal phone calls in prison.

4. "Hi, this is John. I'm out windsurfing. Please leave a message at the tone."

3. Environmentalists can't tell that the phone is ringing, because they've turned the ringer off due to noise pollution.

2. Democrats ARE represented in the polls; they just checked the wrong party affiliation box when they sent in their voter registration.

And, the #1 reason!

1. "Don't answer it, Monica. It might be Hillary!"

MUCKDOG IS A FASCIST BUT I LOVE MY MUCKY - HE IS ALWAYS GOOD FOR A LAUGH!

Just another explanation for the mushrooming budget deficit--payola to a cast of thousands who are keeping the propaganda flowing.

making the wealthy pay more by raising the income ceiling subject to withholding taxes

For sole proprietors and the self-employed, I predict fishing pole sales will skyrocket. For corporations, more jobs will be offshored so employers can avoid the tax. Chinese workers for a few bucks an hour and no tax/benefit overhead is a no brainer.

and reducing benefits for the wealthy. So Bush can’t even sell his own party on his privatization plan.

This would skroo the middle class more than the rich.

Mucky wrote at 1607hrs 09FEB05:
"...This would skroo the middle class more than the rich."

If this be true, then why not just do it? The wealthy elite wouldn't be hurt, as you claim, and others would need to bear the burden. So, why don't we just do it, rather than dancing around the issue? Why do the wealthy elite fight it so, if their interests won't be hurt? Are the wealthy elite more interested in the commonweal that they so deride than some of their remoras let on?

making the wealthy pay more by raising the income ceiling subject to withholding taxes
For sole proprietors and the self-employed, I predict fishing pole sales will skyrocket. Posted by muckdog
The tax is paid on declared income. No one, if self-employed or a sole proprietor, declares 100% of income, especially if they are Republican.

For corporations, more jobs will be offshored so employers can avoid the tax. Chinese workers for a few bucks an hour and no tax/benefit overhead is a no brainer.Posted by muckdog
Capitalists will always act to maximize their profit. If it means shafting the American worker, they will do it in the blink of an eye. This has nothing to do with Social Security. The only way to prevent this is by taxing the corporations for the amount of extra profits they make using off shore production and/or workers. The Chinese workers make a few cents per hour, are primarily females, and live in communal company dorms. They are barely a notch above slave labor.

This would skroo the middle class more than the rich. Posted by muckdog
Screwing the middle class is what the Bush regime is all about. However, AARP is suggesting raising the withholding cap from $90,000 to $140 or $200,000 which hardly seems to be middle class by any standard economic definition. In any event, investment income is still not included, so your precious investment class is unaffected.

Frank Gannon who runs Gallup is a lying sack of shit.

The head of Gallup, a son or nephew of George Gallup is a Radical Christian wingnut who has said he is doing "God's" when he takes polls. Nothing that comes from this orginization is reliable.

Gallup must have very "special" formulas, which
include the factor of money which was paid to make
false statements.

GOP cheats, games the system, cons us. Yes, we know. Hopefully Howard Dean and Mr. Reid will start throwing some stones. Today's revelatory blurt by the idiot Bush that the SS Trust fund can't be depended on will reveal the real GOP plan to Steal Our Retirement Money and to rollback any and all social programs.

you really are what the Republicans are all about, aren't you?

I've always had questions about Gallup since they've been at odds with other polls. Didn't 43 get inaguerated with lowest approval ratings for a 2nd termer? An I got that from the blogs not the MSM. But then the "popular" Ronald Reagan had the same approval ratings at the end of his administration as Clinton if I'm not mistaken and that never seems to get reported.

After the first debate Bush, scowl and all picked up four points...yep, same Gallup.

Muck, your arguments make no logical sense, as does your top ten list. Although #2 and maybe 3 are kinda humorous.

What do corporations care if they raise the ceiling, as regards their workers? They're so busy driving salaries down at every chance, it's not going to impact their behavior anyway.

Or do you think Wal Mart employees are making over $90,000 a year? Otherwise, no differ ance.

Gallup has a long history of making up the poll numbers. I have written to them several times over the years to call their game bogus. I do not know anyone who has ever been asked to participate in a Gallup poll. They just sit behind a desk and make up the numbers. We should all spread the word and discredit this phony company. Is it any wonder that they always have Bu$hco winning??

Top 10 Reasons Democrats Don't Respond to Presidential Polls

10. They are not polled.
9. They are not polled.
8. They are not polled.
7. They are not polled.
6. They are not polled.
5. They are not polled.
4. They are not polled.
3. They are not polled.
2. They are not polled.
1. They are not polled.

Agree w/Ron-Portland's post above. Gallup is one of the very right-wing fundamentalist fanatics that believe he has Truth on his side and therefore, his wacky ends justify any means. This is well known.

What to do? Castegate - loudly, often, and in all forums - ANY news outlet (even Olbermann) that blindly reports any Gallup findings without signficant qualification. Hammer back!

Came on line and here are the 2 big news from Bush!
Medicare drug benefit to cost $720 billion over 10 years Updated 2/9/2005 11:03 PM
Bush seeks $400M fund to reward allies in Iraq, Afghanistan Posted 2/9/2005 9:12 PM
I am writing as I am listening to Jay Leno who is joking about a single mother that told bush about working 3 jobs and bush was so out of touch. 3 jobs, is good. Maybe 4 would be better! A clip was shown, don’t know if it is real but knowing that the not silver but platinum spoon fed president background, would never care for anyone but himself and all his saviors of past blunders.
This night CBS start with a landowner in Texas that has lost right to his land because they are methane gas under it. Rich gold diggers Gas companies comes put the equipment without the acceptance of the land owner rights, Give him $500.00 per dig and keeps all the profits for themselves. Well that is what both bushes did and it is explained in the George Bush Sr:; The Unauthorized Biography --- by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin. (Book is free on the internet) The oil grabbers!

The stupid man does not know when to stops with this nation spending of “we the people” who are paying those taxes for his folly! I forgot he is writing his legacy! Here it is: You were a bad student. All knows it unless to your level. You AWOL in the National Guard, for drugs or other reasons that are worst as young men were dying in Viet man while you chicken out of a safe place because of daddy’s CIA help. You lost a company that you create in Texas but end out with more money just before it went bankrupt; well it was brought for ”inside trading” in court! But Daddy! All records where dropped and…. oops delete! You bought a Baseball teams, and left Texas paying for your folly but sold it at a big profit. It is sad to see that this so call man that has never learn from his failures. Ignored those warning and left with the best protection in this nation to Florida, and left all of us without a leader that never did anything while it was happening. I still think he was away because he knew!
Was so cocky and never care of those scary possible attacks. his failure 9/11, reaction that day, and turn the aftermath to his own agenda. Since the elections, we have not had an Orange alert!!!!!!!! I guess it was the biggest fraud as the WMD in Iraq. Keeps the sheep’s scared. You try to declare yourself as the anti- abortion but do not care to have ours poor youth, who joint the nation guards to get an education, get kill. And claim that GOD talk to you?

"My God" Even the polls are rigged! Why am I not surprised?

Lets face it you're not on equal footing anymore, you're a minority party. The voting statistics proved it. 2000 was 39-35-26, 2002 was 37-37-26, 2004 was 30-38-31, all three in Dem-Gop-Ind order. Gallup is probably going to be using this sampling rate until another (2006) vote happens. The other polls do not represent the voter with the exception of ABC in December. So quit crying.

New Gallup Poll- Bush approval surges to 57%. So do you folks still cling to your belief that the election was "stolen"? Bill Clinton running for reelection only got 49%. Demographics is destiny- Baby Boomers continue to move to the Right as the 78 million boomers age. This trend is likely to continue. Get used to it.

"The other polls do not represent the voter with the exception of ABC in December." Pardon me ABC is NOT an exception.

The Dems are the majority party and True voting stats prove it. The exit polls proved it, only the rigged elections didn't. Oh well, Repukes have to cheat and lie and manipulate to win anything. They couldn't win and honest election or come out on top of an honest poll, if they tried. They lie, cheat and steal just like good Christians?

If you notice the sign of a true Repuke is that they end their e-mails with insults and bluster. Take a look at some of the other comments. The hatred and fear in the Repukes e-mails is overwhelming. They know they cheat and are afraid to meet their final judgement.

Look-the bushies are destoying America. Good - this country is sick and violent and deserves to die. Keep up the good work Muckdog!

I always get a kick out of these people on the right who make fun of environmentalists... as if Republicans don't need clean air to breathe or clean water to drink. The only time you'll hear a Republican cry about the environment is when it affects their expensive investments. My father-in-law, for example, who used to love to fish off the dock of his million dollar lakefront home, can't seem to understand where all the fish have gone. It doesn't occur to him that the lake is almost dead thanks to the acid rain. Don't believe it? Take a water sample to be tested and you'll see the pH levels are all out of whack.

And to all of those who rail against the "treehuggers:" ... if it weren't for the treehuggers you wouldn't have a place to hunt!

Why would anyone in their right mind put business before the environment? If you take care of the environment and manage its resources, you'll ensure that business will survive in the long term because you'll always have the resources to tap into. But the quick-profit corporate culture, which asks American 401kers and other small investors to stay in for the long haul, slash and burn their way to high profits with absolutely no thought for the future. Ask yourselves...how much is enough? How much do you need? How many $39 Chinese-made DVD players are worth thousands of American jobs?

These people are hypocrites. They pray to God and then denigrate the poor. They preach Christianity and peace and love but spew hate about "towel heads" or anyone who disagrees with them. These people are so far from being what an "American" is supposed to be, that they might as well buy up a small European country and start the fourth reich. How many of these folks really "love their neighbor?" If that was the case, they'd be reaching out with loving arms to all who oppose them. Instead, they ridicule, demean and dishonor just like the bullies you knew in school. But, like the bully, their venomous attitudes toward anyone who does not agree with them will ultimately be self-destructive, for no person can carry around so much hate and not have it rot them from the inside out.

The greatest joke of all is that the poorest of the Republicans don't even realize that everything Bush has done and is doing, will put them all into the poor house. They are being so used and yet it's like they're saying, "thank you, sir, may I have another?" They preach the benefits of capitalism but really have no idea that it now lives, indeed thrives, off the back of cheap communist labor. Most major American corporations flout the hard fought labor laws that have given every American a chance to work hard and still enjoy some of the fruits of their labor. They go to China to have their goods made there for next to nothing... all at the expense of American jobs. It's true, labor unions, in many respects, have killed the golden goose with their own avarice. But, if it weren't for them, children would be working, their would be no "weekends," and pay would be next to nothing. Would a Republican want that any more than a Democrat? Maybe a Republican in the upper 1%.

I guess, in a nutshell, if you love the idea of dirty air, foul water, a treeless earth and a career as a greeter at WalMart, then, well, you're living in Nirvana.

Stats:

New Gallup Poll- Bush approval surges to 57%. So do you folks still cling to your belief that the election was "stolen"? Bill Clinton running for reelection only got 49%.

Did you bother to read anything in the post? How exactly does an approval rating in a questionable poll (again, did you read the post?) equate to what Clinton got in a general election?

Peter:

Lets face it you're not on equal footing anymore, you're a minority party. The voting statistics proved it. 2000 was 39-35-26, 2002 was 37-37-26, 2004 was 30-38-31, all three in Dem-Gop-Ind order.

Where exactly did you get a 30-38-31 split for the 2004 election results, when Warren Mitofsky had to reweight his NEP exit poll to a 37%-37% split between Democrats and Republicans just to give Bush 51% of the vote?

The other polls do not represent the voter with the exception of ABC in December. So quit crying.

Please explain that one.

Thanks

Steve, please don't humor him. If it's coming from a republican, it's probably a lie.

"Demographics is destiny- Baby Boomers continue to move to the Right as the 78 million boomers age. This trend is likely to continue" Stats

Stats you don't really know your stats. Aging does not guarentee conservitism. The GI generation have continued their early preference for Democrats at the state level well into elderhood. They are one reason why the Democrats GAINED seats overall at the state legislature level in 2004.

Another example of how aging does not guarentee conservatism is the fact that in 2000 voters above 65 prefered Gore and Bush's pick up in 2004 with this age group is mostly because of the medicare bill. Bush and Rove knew they needed to 'swing' this group for 2004 and so you have the three hour vote we saw to make the bill pass. I might add that he's throwing away that goodwill with this SS privitization talk.

Even if none of this was true the fact is the 'echo boom'-children of the boomers who are roughly between 15 and 30 in 2005 have a LARGER population as a group than their parents and demographics are going to increase this over time. Also increasing soon will be the number of them who vote. They showed a slight preference for Democrats in 2004 and that is likely why Bush is trying to woo them on the Social Security issue. Simply put, if he can't convince them on Social Security and they continue to feel that this government with its wars and deficets is throwing away THEIR future, demographic voting patterns are going to swing hard in favor of the Democrats in 5 to 10 years as the echo boom matures and votes in larger numbers. GET USED TO IT!

I posted a diary on this at dKos yesterday and very few people responded to it. Why doesn't somebody else pick it up? Before the election, Gallup made an attempt to clean up their act when the bloggers called attention to their skewed sampling. Why no notice now?

The Republican/Democrat difference is not 9%, but 9 percentage points. The difference is actually greater than that. If I'm doing my math right, it's 15%. I think you have to take the difference in number of people polled 99 and divide it by the total Republicans/Democrats. I know this seems nit picky, but I think it's important to be accurate in reporting stats. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Tenngal, you are correct; it is nine percentage points. I went with the shorthand for conciseness.

Thanks for the follow-up.

"The other polls do not represent the voter with the exception of ABC in December." Pardon me ABC is NOT an exception.

Posted by peter at February 10, 2005 05:46 AM

By the way, I saw a report recently that stated that as a result of population shifts that have occurred since the last census (2000), the Blue States have already lost 2 or three additonal electoral votes (and Congressional seats). Of course, the changes won't take place until the next official census, but the states that will lose seats (assuming no mass migration back to the Northeast) are Massachusetts and New York, with Florida and Arizona gaining seats.

WE've already seen that this administration has reporters in its pockets, and those are only the ones who've been exposed. I can guarantee there are many more. So, is it any surprise that even the so-called "trustworthy"polls are corrupted by this corrupt government? Only those who do not research and investigate non-right-wing historical sources think that Bush and his automatons are pure, with our best interests at heart. Leopards do indeed NOT change their spots, only the areas in which they hunt. If you want a truly unbiased source of current info, you pretty much have to look outside the country. Sad state of affairs, especially when the government has even the common man parroting the effluvia coming from Bush, Cheney, & Co.

Stats, Um, I dont think it is MA, they have had a small lose in pop., but not enough to lose seats. NY, yes, I think they will lose 1 or 2, in addition to Ohio losing another. I think FL, AZ, and NV will get one.

Reapportionment wont save the Repubs. if Bush alienates the echo boom sufficently, the blue states will number over 40.

Note to rlprather-

When I was in college (in 1969), everyone was a Democrat. I worked in the Eugene McCarthy campaign, and later also in the McGovern campaign. People get wiser as they get older, and also more careful about how they handle their money. I think the Boomer's kids will get the message when they start to have real jobs and start paying taxes. The Republicans are the lesser of two evils.

Stats and Peter:

Still waiting for a response to my questions.

Stats: The part about having to chose between the lesser of two evils (although not about which part is the least evil) I agree with you on. History has favored the Reps. scince about 1968 for I believe mostly SOCIAL reasons. I see the economic problems the defecit and blind outscorcing ( which Clinton and some other Dems. partly share the blame for) being the possible base for a realignment. You may be right in that the Reps. may find a way to put together a long term majority. I see a possible Dem. majority being devoloped on economic grounds, but if you are right I believe it will be dispite of, not because of Bush.

Fake polls. Fake reporters. Fake war. Fake social security crisis. It all makes perfect sense, since we're stuck with a FAKE for president.

Regarding fraudulent polls, in this purportedly democratic republic, how many changes in policy have been effected according to the WILL OF THE PEOPLE? Immigration? human slaughterhouses? Foreign aid? Pay raises for congressmen and senators? Forced integration?

So activist courts (making rather than interpreting laws) and brain-dead legislatures effect rule by elite movers and shakers -- corporatists, bankers, oilmen (and their sycophantic hacks in Congress) -- not the citizenry

Why vote?

I am the oracle. Whatever truth I say is truth will be. Your reality is whatever I deem it to be. I will never allow transparent or auditable records.
The Gallup poll or the Diebold vote counting system are some of my many tools. I select who your candidates or leaders will be and what you will focus on as topics of concern. You are welcome--owners of the USAinc.

Democrats are just Communists anyway. Anyone who would suggest that someone be free without the government's nose up your ass all day long is some sort of neo-con wing nut. Bush is doing a great job in my opinion and I'm so glad that lying piece of crap Kerry didn't get in White House. Dodged that bullet!

Thanks for that piece of wisdom Diver Down.

Gallup is now owned by the son of the founder, and is now a RIGHT WING CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION!

The head of Gallup now speaks of polls revealing "God's influence", which is crazy talk coming from a pollster....

GALLUP CANNOT BE TRUSTED ANYMORE THAN SINCLAIR, FOX, OR PRAVDA!

Israel runs this nation. When are the dumb asses in America going to see that? The fact that Jewish men own ALL the major TV networks. The fact that 3 billion is given to Israel from the US every year. Our own tax dollars come back through AIPAC, to bribe Congress on how to vote. We are at war to fight Israel's enemies. Let Israel fight their own wars. Some people need to research Mossad, and their M.O. of creating terrorist attacks like 911.

Awakened is a freaking asshole and doesn't know shit. Israel is not in control of USA, and Jews do not own all the media. This is just anti-semitism at its worst...

Fuck you asshole!

To "asshole awakenedd"

Israel may or may not own all of our media, but this country surely cozies up to them at every oppurtunity. Not to mention, that the God of the Bible's chosen people are the Jews, therefore this country's current regime espouses a fundamental belief in the God of the Jews. Not that I have a problem with Jews or God-- I don't, so please save the much overused anti-semitism card for when it's actually warranted-- it's just a Biblical, religious fact. And, if you look into the history of the Bible, you see that God has pitted the Jews against the Arabs throughout all of the Old Testament. America is just helping to continue that tradition. And, if the mover and shakers in this country are trying to appease God, doesn't it make sense to coddle and promote his chosen folks?

Here are a few facts.
There are more trees in the U.S now than when the first settlers arrived here. Those who have a vested interest in logging trees do so in a way that ensures that they can continue operating. That's capitalisim. It works. I sometimes wonder what those of you who are against harvesting wood would build your homes from. Wood is a great building material. There's really nothing else quite like it. I guess we could make everything from plastic, but that requires lots of OIL to produce, so I guess that's out of the question as well.

The Soviets took the opposite approach for 70 years and the whole idea was a complete failure. Eastern Europe was the most polluted part of the Earth, and still is in many areas to this very day. No one had any vested interest in keeping the country claen, because it didn't BELONG to ANYBODY. No one cared. It will take years to clean it up, and some places (like Chernobyl) will never be inhabitable.That's Liberalism/Socialism. It CAN'T work.

Many liberals and neocommunists still believe that socialism would work if only the right people were running the system. Human nature is always left out of the equation. Stalin had to MURDER millions to impose and maintain his power. They had to build a wall to keep people IN, not out.
I completely support Social Security privatization. I've dumped over $100,00.00 into that system already. If I'm lucky, I just might squeak out a lousy 1% return on my money, if the POnzi scheme has any money left in it by then. On the other hand, if my children invest just $100.00 per month over their working years at an average 8% compounded rate of return (which is accurate, take ANY 20 years in the history of the stock market, including the Great Depression and average the rate of return, you will get 8%. That's ANY 20 year period!), they will have a 1.2 MILLION dollar nest egg for their retirement. Not too shabby for 25 bucks a week. A million bucks is still alot of money. This method has been working in Chile for years, and they've averaged a 10% rate of return, and not one penny has ever been lost.Former PEASANTS are retiring rich in that country, and everyone benefits. If it's good enough for South America, I say it's good enough for North America. It's also been working in Galveston TX. for a while now, and I haven't heard of any revolt going on down there so far.

The only reason liberals are against the whole idea is because they ALWAYS use the Social Security issue as a fear weapon for their political campaigns, especially against senior citizens (who, by the way, are currently the wealthiest segment of American society). There's no money there anyway. Since the Johnson administration, it has all been spent. There is no trust fund, and there hasn't been for many years.

I say those of you who are against this idea ( which WILL happen, because it HAS to happen for the system to continue) should just keep dumping your money into the old system. The rest of us won't mind. We'll probably scratch our heads and wonder why anyone would pass up a good oppurtunity to put their money to work, instead of it going straight into the pockets of current recipients, but it's a free country and we can all choose where we want to put our hard earned money. To each his own. I would personally choose the intelligent approach. The Social Security system isn't BAD, but what's wrong with making it BETTER? What are all of the Liberals afraid of? Is it the fact that people might start becoming WEALTHY? What's wrong with that? That's why we all get up and go to work every day. It's to make MONEY, so that we can LIVE. If we didn't get paid, we would all stay home, and the economy would collapse in a day. I say those of you that think you are undertaxed should just send more money to the government. They'll gladly take it. But just realize this. Just because you're paying more money does not mean that the poor will be any better off. We've spent TRILLIONS on the "war on poverty", and we're still fighting it. We have CREATED a huge underclass of fatherless children and single mothers in our cities. We have CREATED hopelesness for so many, where hope WAS alive and well. Families were still together before we started tinkering with them. That's the real crime here. We've destroyed hopes and dreams in the name of good intentions for 2 generations so far. It's time to wake up and see human nature for what it really is and stop trying to engineer equality through social programs. In case no one has noticed, it's not working, nor will it ever. We need a new creative, realistic approach.

Has ANYONE ever made a decent living on public assistance? Has there even been ONE? Who can live on a few hundred bucks a month, or even a few thousand if there are MANY kids in the picture. It takes lots of MONEY to give children a DECENT life, and it works best when there are TWO parents in the home. Our current system kicks the father out in most cases. It disallows ownership of even a bank account. The black community now has an out of wedlock birthrate of OVER 65%. That's UNFAIR to BLACK PEOPLE!!! Segregation is alive and well and the U.S Government (we, the people) is financing it.

It's time to face the truth instead of pretending. Human beings all want to be free, and upwardly mobile. Let's stop holding people back. Let's free people to put their own money where they CHOOSE. Let's allow people to send their kids to the same schools that our Senators are allowed to. Let's allow everyone to have the same retirement options as our government workers are allowed. Let's stop DICTATING in the name of "fairness".We cannot end discrimination by discriminating against one another.

I'm done :)!!!!!

What to do about the 'facts':

" Wood is a great building material. There's really nothing else quite like it. I guess we could make everything from plastic, but that requires lots of OIL to produce, so I guess that's out of the question as well."

Where in this thread is ANYONE talking about this subject? Completely non-secquiter.

"Many liberals and neocommunists still believe that socialism would work if only the right people were running the system."

Good to see your a scholor of political history.
Liberalism and Communism have very different roots. Liberalism goes back to the age of enlightenment (18th century). Communism came along about 100 years later during the Romantic age. Good to see you know what you're talking about.

"I completely support Social Security privatization... take ANY 20 years in the history of the stock market, including the Great Depression and average the rate of return, you will get 8%...There is no trust fund, and there hasn't been for many years."

WRONG. IF you invested in 1928 it would have taken you until 1954 just to break even. Also the period from 1962 to 1982 fails to perform at the rate you promise. You're also ignoring the fact that the upcoming boomer retirement is likely to create downward pressure on the market because the retired usually take more out of the market than they put in. The trust fund holds Tresuary Notes which are a form of bonds. Under our Constitution legislatures cannot void contracts and bonds are a legally binding contract.

"I say those of you who are against this idea ( which WILL happen, because it HAS to happen for the system to continue)"

WRONG AGAIN. If you lift the 90k cap on FICA there will NEVER in the forseeable future be a problem. Also, this problem is only a problem if you believe the low range figures on economic growth. If the low range figures prove correct the 8% return you want will not happen. It won't even happen in the mid range, only the high range projects 7-10% stock market growth.

"We have CREATED hopelesness for so many, where hope WAS alive and well."

I live in South Carolina. If you really think hope was alive and well down here pre-civil rights era I challenge you to look at statistics on life expectancy, rates of indoor plumbing use as well as number of lynchings per year as LATE AS THE 1940's.

" Who can live on a few hundred bucks a month, or even a few thousand if there are MANY kids in the picture. It takes lots of MONEY to give children a DECENT life, and it works best when there are TWO parents in the home. Our current system kicks the father out in most cases. It disallows ownership of even a bank account. The black community now has an out of wedlock birthrate of OVER 65%. That's UNFAIR to BLACK PEOPLE!!! Segregation is alive and well and the U.S Government (we, the people) is financing it."

So ending public assistance is going to make the weak stronger?

On the two parent home issue I'll grant you that some of the early assumptions about chronic poverty were wrong, but there have been some reforms and more are needed, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

" Let's allow people to send their kids to the same schools that our Senators are allowed to. Let's allow everyone to have the same retirement options as our government workers are allowed."

The Voucher program will NOT allow you to send your children to the same school that a senator's children attend. The amount will not be high enough. If you will do a little reaserch
you will find that many charter schools have MORE problems than the public schools that they were supposed to be superior to.

You are a person with a lot of passion. Passion can be a good thing if it is directed by one who thinks for themselvrs. It sounds like you may have attended one of those conservative funded rallies. Remember two things: 1. Do your own reaserch on issues so that you can think for yourself. 2. Not everyone who claims to be a friend is a friend. Again, think for yourself and no one can take advantege of you.

Here we are at another one of those "argue amongst ourselves" comment pages. I don't know where "betrade" got his information about how much he and his heirs are gonna get out of privatizing social security, but I think he needs to do some serious research on the subject.
How is someone going to invest $100.00 a month when he/she is only making minimum wage? Don't you realize what it costs to live in this country? You might say "get a better job". Where? Most of the good jobs are being deported overseas for cheap slave labor. Do you think all those "created jobs" here are good paying ones? I beg to differ. Most are of a part time, minimum wage nature with no benefits. It doesen't matter which of the politicians gets into office, whearther it be the repubicans, dumasscrats or indespotendants, they all serve the same agenda, to serve the desires of the wealthy elite pigs that run the world. Most of you have no clue as to what's really going on in the world. You're told by the main stream media that "alternative news" is nothing but conspiricy theories. Well, if there were no "conspiracies" going on out in the real world, there would be no need for the "theorists" to try to spread the truth would there? Most of you so called repubicans out there are nothing but a bunch of self interest serving pigs that could care less about other people as long as you have your wants met. Then you whine, bitch and moan about the social programs to aide the poor that you help to create by paying shit wages, thinking you're doing people a favor! And a lot of you call yourselves christian? I'm glad I'm not one of you! Your stench spans the planet! Maybe you need to study you're bible, not just read it and read about usury and greed. You disgust me to no end, but you don't care do you.

It will take years to clean it up, and some places (like Chernobyl) will never be inhabitable.

Perhaps you meant "will never be habitable?"

Oh, and btw - how about a nice cup of STFU.