Why just to you progressives? What about us moderates, who by the way ground your nominee to dust?

Opposing Bush isn't a progressive badge of honor, it's an AMERICAN badge of honor. Stop trying to act like you're the only ones who saw this coming.

Having said that, I hope every farmer who voted for Bush gets driven out of business by a large corporation, then goes on welfare, then kills himself. That way we'll probably win in '08.

I guess they are forgetting they re-elected the commander in theif to protect them from homosexuals getting married and having abortions. Guess they thought it would be for free. Too bad, so sad.

i grew up in colorado, and i know the red dust blowing up against the snow drifts. forget it.
little boots is definitely the lighting rod. but it is the general lack of concern for the earth that is the trademark of the conquest of turtle island.

bush is not responsible for the history of the abuse. he just is the cheerleader at the end of the cycle. a real nobody.

the egregiousness of the conceit unravels with rumsfield, condi the rice, cheney near death (do not count on it),little boots, and woofy - pooh.
i wish it were docotr seus but it is melt down, end of empire. and think clinton the neo liberal could have held the worldwide insurgency at bay until us boomers could have gotten our social security.
like it or not , spring time for hitelr for everyone.

when they were cheering "stick it to the welfare class", little did they realize that they WERE receiving welfare in the form of subsidies.

Sorry, folks. You screwed yourselves. You didn't listen to reason.

(This is a paraphrase. I'm not sure of the original scorce.)

When the textile mills closed I cared not
I was not a textile worker
When the steel mills closed I cared not
I was not a steelworker
When the assembily plant closed I cared not
I was not an assembler
Now my farm is gone
Why doesn't anyone weep for us farmers?

Fuck em. At one point I thought susidies were a necessary form of crop support. No more. We can get all of this stuff cheaper from Brazil. They beat us at the game. And it's the corporate model, don't you know, low price wins. You farmers can send your kids to town to be whores to support you for all I care, but just think, you voted against Terra and Gays. Way to go, Nimrods.

All of this is an enormous head fake -- Rove is using the farm subsidy issue to axe food stamps...the farmers will be so relieved that they can feed at the federal trough they'll double their efforts at being good soldiers for the Mammonite wing of the Repuglican Party... after of course being disciplined by Master Rove.

I do not think that cuts in farm subsidies will become a reality in this budget cycle. Bush will allow the Republican majority in congress to restore the subsidies because he does not care about the huge debt he is running up. He sees his legacy as being replacing the "welfare state", (in the broadest sense) w/ the conservative model for at least the next 50 years. A huge public debt will allow this to become a reality. Even though a Republican majority will be responsible for not passing his budget he can argue that he proposed a budget with cuts but he needed even more conservative support to get it passed. Pure Karl Rove. No matter what happens they win.

When an urban family gets assistance, they're lazy welfare cheats. But when a farmer can't make a living without similar (or as is often the case, much greater) assistance, well that's a totally different matter -- a "subsidy" for being such fine, upstanding living legacies of All That Is Great About America, morally superior to the rest of the sinful population. And, By God, they're entitled.

They've been all too eager to be willing Culture Warriors happily villifying the rest of us. How much sympathy do these delusional morons believe they're entitled to from us immoral, tax & spend librul niggra lovers?

Are we supposed to be turning the other cheek now? If things were less fucked up, I'd be willing to meet 'em halfway. But now? I don't think so. Fuck 'em. I couldn't care less about their collective fate at this late date. Let 'em "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" which, after all, is the philosophy they espouse with such righteous disgust. There's always the prospect of starting a meth lab in the barn so they can feed their children. Barring that, there's always The Army (since they're also keen on murdering swarthy foreigners).

Welcome to the real world, Farmer John. And thanks for your instrumental role in turning over the reigns of government to holier-than-thou, knuckle-draggin' fundie crusaders who use their Dark Ages ideology as a means of masturbating themselves like horny teenagers while grinding America into dust.

The sooner the whole house of cards falls, the sooner we can start anew. Until then, bring on the sociopolitical apocalypse.

These people had the same choice we all had
2 November. Now they think they alone should
be spared the consequences of what they did
that day? After I hear them express a little
solidarity with everyone else who's going
to be eating dust I'll start feeling some
empathy myself.

Downtown, I think you nailed it. Not just the farmers who are getting screwed and think it's unique to them and how awful it is, but also the conservative black evangelicals who don't see that civil rights apply to all Americans, including gays and lesbians, and are more than willing to deny some other minority group equal rights.

People do vote their own self-interests. But how is it in anyone's self interest that poor children go hungry and without medical care? How is it in anyone average American's self-interest that we spend billions of our hard-earned dollars and destroy thousands of lives in Iraq? Who does it help this person that that person doesn't have a job anymore?

Yea, it's real easy to get upset when it's their job, their family, their whatever.

For a country that is supposed to be so generous, "we" have long been more selfish and caluous to the suffering of others than we are willing to admit.

So ok, farmers/rural folks/red-staters, you're going to suffer the way you voted for so many others to suffer. And for a moment we're not going to feel sorry for you.

But if you'll wake up now and join the rest of us who have already suffered and help to redeem the country; if you'll be there for us, we'll be there for you, too.

But don't expect anyone to feel sorry for people who ignore the suffering of others, who vote to increase suffering, and who only care about themselves.

Time to make a choice.

I was hoping Bush would "succeed" this way his first term, and do just enough damage that everyone saw him for what he really is without ruining our country. Well, he came close, but not enough Americans saw it. They fell for the gay/guns trick. Now we get a double dose, and maybe there will be double the backlash, tho I doubt it.

Farm subsidies are ridiculous.

I [choke, gasp, cough] agree with muckdawg. I grew up on a farm back during the 70s. We were poor, hardscrabble folk with lots of dignity and grit--or something like that. Actually, our farm (40 acres) was was called a Gentleman's Farm, or Hobby Farm. Had we had to subsist on it, we would have been too poor to pay the mortgage.

Most of the farms around us were a means of supplemental income. The few farmers who actually farmed full time had big operations. Over the years the big operations all morphed into something you could call corporate farming. Agribusiness is a lot about supplying cheap cattle feed. America loves its meat and cattle farmers (many in South America) love cheap cattle feed. The corn actually processed for human consumption is mostly in the form of corn syrup, a sugar substitute. Most vegetables grown are for vegetable oil and trans-fats.

Farm subsidies are about preserving a status quo that is feeds the unhealthy lifestyle.

Back in the 70s, there were farmers trying to grow organic, consumable produce that would be healthy and chemical free. The idea was to truck it directly to markets avoiding wholesalers. To some extent some folks accomplished this. Some small butcher shops even sprang up to furnish people with farm fed beef and pork. You could get a week's supply of raw milk on a Sunday drive.

But for the most part, there was little money in these endeavors and agribusiness controlled the overall commodity markets. Agribusiness and government price controls have been used for years to control prices. The supply chain is firmly entrenched and so are the producers.

If we wish to change the fate of the family farm, we need buy nothing but fresh, locally grown produce and get our meats delivered from small shops (adopt a cow); make significant changes in our diet to eliminate hydrogenated oils and corn syrup; shorten the supply chain to support regional co-ops; and get investment to farmers who create bio-mass operations to partially offset energy demands.

The new "back to the land" movement should be predicated on using technology to help solve our energy crisis and be scalable enough so that small farmers can capitalize and run their own show. Small is beautiful, right? If nothing else, we could all stand to lose a few pounds that are directly attributable to agribusiness' reliance on cheap trans-fats.

Well boo, hoo, hoo-the poor farmers like Mr. Rife got what they wanted. Pardon me while I give you a big, I DON'T CARE about your problem.

obelus,
Of course, you're right, but convincing the nation to adopt these ideas is fantasy, right now. Maybe after we get rid of the current neo-con cabal---and all that entails---we can get the country on a different track, but for now maybe these farmers will be the beginning of the pendulum swinging back. It is difficult to feel sorry for them but I hate to see the end of family owned farms.

As a farm state resident, I have often found myself amused by the irony of the farmers who would meet at the local greasy spoon on a daily basis (particularly during the winter months) and spend their federal subsidies on their morning coffee and donuts while bemoaning with their neighbors the inefficiency and waste of the federal government.

obelus,

That is why production caps have to happen. Though I live in a Midwestern state, I am not a farmer. But from what I know, it used to be that if you produced over a certain amount the government would not provide you subsidies. A) Because you were producing enough where you could sell your product and not need subsidies (much like corporate Agribusiness today) and B) you were actually hurting other farmers by driving down prices, over flooding the market. It gave you an incentive to produce less, which would more accurately meet demand. We are fat Americans but we're not that fat. Correct me if I am wrong, but as it currently stands government will buy back a certain number of your crops, no matter how much you produce.

I pretty much agree with what you said about the current situation, but eliminating it entirely would only spur corporate agribusiness, which is killing the small farmer.

chris65203,

The issue of corporate farms is a moot point. Family farms must be huge to survive with the majority of crops we consume (there are some specialty growers on small farms doing very well). Carn, for example, will net $20.00 per acre. You need 3-5,000 acreasd to make a living as a "small" farmer.

Farm subsidies are ridiculous.

What about the $1 trillion in corporate subsidies this year? Funny, you never mention those. Hey, I bet you can't wait till the budget cuts hit those small native villages!

I gotta correct this thing:

chris65203,

The issue of corporate farms is a moot point. Family farms must be huge to survive given the majority of crops we consume (there are some specialty growers on small farms doing very well). Corn, for example, will net $20.00 per acre. You need 3-5,000 acres to make a living as a "small" farmer of corn.

Farm subsidies are ridiculous.

What about the $1 trillion in corporate subsidies this year? Funny, you never mention those. Hey, I bet you can't wait till the budget cuts hit those small native villages!

The "family farm" as a concept has been dead for at least 40 years. You can make it farming, say 1000 acres, if the wife works in town at a job that has health care as part of the benefits. Been there, done that. I left that farm with my family intact 20 years ago and got a job w/ benefits. I'm retired w/ an IRA. No sympathy for them dumb-ass one issue voters that made the Congress more Republican and re-put Bush in office. Bitter, Hell no. Just amazed if Bush got all those votes they claim he got in a legal way.