Can anyone tell me why so many of you are so convinced islam is benevolant without question, yet critical of christianity?

Look at muslims.

They always stick together against the common enemy : Unbelievers (look how Iran and Syria have been having private talks about their enemy) we should all stick together too, you see thats the only thing I respect about muslims.... the way they're so loyal to each other and stand by each other, muslims always coming first to them all, no matter what evils or attrocities they may be responsible for (look how they revere Bin Laden).... thats the fundamental mistake you're all making, the right and anti-terrorist, anti-jihadists are all sticking together , united in anger against the enemies of the west, who're sworn to destroy us and our civilization (I'm talking about the extreme jihadists of course, but if ever it got to the point where the west was on the brink of collapse, the muslims would all come together and finish it for good, the islamic caliphate reborn and their duty for Allah complete), while the left are critical and skeptical of whatever we say.

Listen , I'm no fan of Bush and I'm not really that right-wing, I'm a normal westerner who loves his society and the freedoms we are entitled to in our part of the world and I feel that it is threatened by islam and their crazed jihad, and that's why I'm passionate about convincing those who are ignorant of the threat it poses, of what an evil religion it really , truely is.

K.A.,

Can't tell you since I don't know who you are refering to as being 'convinced Islam is benevolent without question?'

Islam has it's peaceful types and it's warmongers. So does Christianity.

Could religion be one more excuse for doing what you want to do anyway? Ya think?

Hi, everyone. This is the first time I have posted to a site so forgive me if my post is not "in the right place". I was listening to Washington Journal on C-SPAN this morning and they had the head of Medicare on. This guy was asked about the Medicare prescription benefit and why it is better than the VA's system of dealing directly with drug companies (from a cost perspective, the VA gets tremendously better prices on drugs by buying directly in bulk) that the VA could do that because it is a controlled and closely managed health care delivery system while people in Medicare have choice and can go to whatever physician they want.

My questions are:

1. If choice is such a great thing (I am not convinced that it always is - I spent six years on active duty), why are our veterans placed in a system that deprives them of choice in their health care needs?

2. If you accept that choice in health care is a better thing, then it sounds like our veterans are getting short-changed and the Administration is pandering to its graying benefactors. Which is it?

Your comments are appreciated. I wish that John Kerry would bring this up when Medicare and VA are discussed.

Bush Appoints Negroponte to head our nations Security and Intelligence. Great, another convicted war criminal/human rights abuser put in a position to return to his criminal ways. I guess this clears the way for Bush to re-appoint Bernie Kerik to run Iraq....or maybe Jeff Gannon.

...thats the fundamental mistake you're all making, the right and anti-terrorist, anti-jihadists are all sticking together , united in anger against the enemies of the west, who're sworn to destroy us and our civilization (I'm talking about the extreme jihadists of course, but if ever it got to the point where the west was on the brink of collapse, the muslims would all come together and finish it for good, the islamic caliphate reborn and their duty for Allah complete), while the left are critical and skeptical of whatever we say.

See here's the problem K.A. The Right in this country is not only united against the terrorists and jihadists. It's also united against...wait for it...the Left. The Republican leaders of congress hold Leftists in this country in as much distain as they do terrorists. Whether the Left is left because of anti-war positions, gay rights positions, abortion positions or any other "liberal" position. The Rights rejection of the Left has to do with more than simply what they perceive as anti-war weakness. The Left is just as much the enemy in the minds of the Right as are the terrorists. Don't you understand that.

Perhaps you are genuine in your comment. But look at what you wrote. ...while the left are critical and skeptical of everything we say. Look in a mirror my friend. When's the last time you gave credence to anything a Leftist said?

Listen , I'm no fan of Bush and I'm not really that right-wing, I'm a normal westerner who loves his society and the freedoms we are entitled to in our part of the world and I feel that it is threatened by islam and their crazed jihad...

If that's all true you should be able to understand that a fundimental aspect of the rights and freedoms you appreciate is the need for open and free debate about the issues confronting us. I am constantly amazed that people speaking from a Right viewpoint express such love of our freedoms but can't deal with the exercise of those freedoms by people who don't share all their viewpoints. You're convinced you're correct. We're not. Simple as that.

Skepticism and critique are indispensible on our society. What you desire from the Left is exactly the cause of your misconception of Islam. You want the Left to shut up and not be questioning or skeptical of the Rights motives, intentions or conceptions. That is exactly the problem in the Middle East. There is no opposition to the radicals who foment hatred and violence. The vast majority who do not want violence or hatred but simply wish to live their lives in peace do not speak out. The result? The radicals and jihadists rule. Yet it is a similiar silence and unquestioning passivity that you desire from the western Left. Anyone who disagrees or dares to think outside approved bounds (ie anyone who is skeptical of you) is marginalized and told to shut up. The mullahs would have no problem with that. I do. I love our freedoms too.

It is an historical reality that attitudes such as you express here, when embraced by those in power, have done more harm to our freedoms and rights in the United States than any form of dissent by the opposition ever has.

Muckcat...that is one of the most well-written responses I have seen on here in many days.

The problem boils down to the mindset of the right...there can only be two sides to every issues, black/white, right/wrong(left), good/evil.

Al qaeda is a group of islamic jihadists, on that we can all pretty much agree. The right only cares about the "islamic" part...that is what makes them different and therefore evil.

What about the christian jihadists (KKK anyone?) They are christian so they must be okay?

The right focuses on the adjectives that describe a group not what the group itself. That is why labels are so important to them.

A liberal doctor/lawyer/professor/etc is not a doctor/lawyer/professor...he/she is a liberal (period.) No more thought is required. The problem with looking for differences, is once you have eliminated one group based upon a difference, you tend to look for other things that are different to start excluding. Eventual that mentality turn upon itself, unfortunately not quickly enough.

On the Negroponte issue...we need to scrub Bush's donor list to see who is in line to be the new Iraqi Ambassadors.

Negroponte??

Ugh, I'm now sick to my stomach. Not only is he (as T2 puts it) " . . another convicted war criminal/human rights abuser put in a position to return to his criminal ways.", he's another insanely loyal yes-man.

I shouldn't expect more from this administration, but it's still upsetting.

Gail,
Yes I agree with you 100% (BTW I was refering to the anonymous guy who's responded to my posts for the last three days, but never responds to my next post refuting his argument, so hoped to catch his attention right at the begining).

My point is, there are over a billion muslims, a sixth of the planets population, now if they all follow a religion which seems to breed extremists like no other does (and they do..... admit it) we're all in serious trouble unless we think of a way to deal with the problem.
There are even muslims who're trying to reform their religion, and create a kind of islamic equivalent of the New testament.... because even they can see there are things in the koran which encourage muslims to do unspeakable acts, and to them they're just obeying their god.

Please people, I'm not you're enemy, I'm not a bush supporter, I'm a highly concerned westerner, who's studied islam and has discovered a nasty can of worms. All I'm asking is you check it out for yourselves, and then make a judgement.... don't pre-judge me , just because you perceive my views to be "right-wing".

Can anyone tell me why so many of you are so convinced islam is benevolant without question, yet critical of christianity? K.A. 4:19am

(BTW I was refering to the anonymous guy who's responded to my posts for the last three days, but never responds to my next post refuting his argument, so hoped to catch his attention right at the begining). K.A. 7:52am

Which is it? Anyone or "the guy"?

Perhaps you could copy an example of someone's, perhaps "the guy"'s, comment that suggests Islam is benevolent without question so we can comment on it. I don't recall reading that anywhere on this site.

It seems to me you spend a lot of time here making blanket condemnations and prejudgements of "the Left" yet request that people here not do the same. Walking up to people and slapping them in the face is not conducive to establishing a collegial relationship with them.

What exactly is your "solution" to the Islam problem K.A.? Your rhetoric doesn't seem to leave a lot of options open. What kind of judgement are you asking us to make about the 1 billion muslims on the planet?

Okay I am Ricardo, as someone yesterday sussed out (the K.A stands for "Kinetic Atom , the name I used at Talk Left, and "Koncerned Amerikan" which I use at GGF).

The reason I used a different name and pretended to be american (well I have been living here for 3 months if that counts) is because there are quite a few anti-Ricardo's here, so I thought, I'll try posting under a different name and being civil and see if I'm treated with a little more respect than I was before.
But no, because I held non-leftist views, I was instantly categorized as "idiot....ect".
Sorry but I'm not an idiot, I got As and Bs in every subject at school and I do writing and art at home as a hobby and at colledge.... I hear retards struggle with such passtimes...

Anyway enough of my life-story, look people the reason I come here, if I'm honest is despite you sometimes being the most obnoxious bunch of idiots I've come across, you amuse me, and I actually find myself liking some of you in spite of myself (because like it or not, we're all part of the same species..... I've walked into an insult there haven't I???).
I am british,as I say I've spent some time in the states but I am returning home, I just want to say you really ought to be proud of your country, I know you hate Bush, but Bush isn't america, he's just one person in it.... yes I know he's a doufus and I'd rather just about anybody be in charge than him, but I couldn't bare the thought of the niave , good-willed left running things. I know you folks aren't bad, in fact you're all pretty much angels compared to me.... but you're just too trusting, and skeptical of the wrong people.

I'd like to apologise for all of my insults to everyone here.... sincerly. Muck Cat and Soccerdad, you guys are top anyway, Judith you can be bitchy but you're genuinely sweet sometimes too, Duckman, I love the cartoon you're named after (but he's far zaneir.... be more zany.... like me!!!) paradox, clever mutha, always leaving me wanting to write an essay in return/vengeance.
And of course Chevy, Bendito , Right-Coaster, Muck-dog and Toby.... my only allies in a sea of hostility (on this site anyway, on other sites I'm the top-dog.... and yes you sarcastic fucks it is interlectual!!!)

One more rant going out to NMH, you are greatly mistaken if you think I know nothing about islam.... I know too much about it, which is why I even believe you are being deceitful in your response to me..... I'm mixed race, my mother white britsh, my father is an arab..... I'm an apostate and happy to be one (never will I join any cult or religion ; science explains it all good enough for me).

Anyway folks, no hard feelings huh??? Sorry for being such an unbeatable-in-debate kinda guy!!!

PS- If anyone's interested in getting into the UK side of the debates, try the aptly titled : http://ukdebates.com/.

*hands Ricardo/K.A./Jeff Gannon a shovel*

Here - you look like you need this. Keyboards are lousy for digging yourself in with.

i'm sure the invisible hand of the marketplace will sort out this identity theft thing.

Muck Cat,
I can't remember the exact wording and don't have time to search, but it was along the lines of :
How can you say islam is an evil religion, when it spread in it's prime, across northern Africa and Asia, this proving it is accepting of other cultures...... that was the jist of it.

Now this is wrong, it spread so far , so fast, because Muhammed and his ruthless armies were uncompromising in spreading the religion. Those who refused to convert were killed or exhiled, or forced to live as second class citizens in the new muslim society (dhimmis/dhimmitude). Thats not tolerance for other cultures, thats annihilation of them.

TA or Ricardo or whoever said: "My point is, there are over a billion muslims, a sixth of the planets population, now if they all follow a religion which seems to breed extremists like no other does (and they do..... admit it) we're all in serious trouble unless we think of a way to deal with the problem."

Sorry, but I certainly will not 'admit it.' I lived three years in Iran and was married to an Iranian for 10 years. Religion may give many a reason to justify what they want to do anyway, as I said above. But again, it has for many religions, not just Islam. But I don't buy that Islam is the 'cause.'

Do you really think that religion is the cause instead of the means to bond people who have real reasons to be angry at what they see as the usurption of their rights, beliefs and way of life?

Don't you think we don't bear quite a bit of the responsibility setting this situation up to get worse and worse?

Don't you think we have played into the hand of the Muslim hardliners (just like they as well as the Christian hardliners want us to)?

In effect we are doing their recruiting for them.

which seems to breed extremists like no other does (and they do..... admit it)

That you hate Islam is apparent. Your argument, "I know it, so trust me, it's bad!" is one I can get from any kid describing a food they don't like. Your statements are highly suspect because you wrap all muslims in the same cloth, try to get us to believe they are all terrorists, and then want us join you in your battle to end Islam because you have some special powers of perception we don't have.

Your argument is the argument racists use. That you are bi-racial is no innoculation against racism, and actually appears to be indicative of some form of self-loathing for your genetic inheritance. If you think not, look no further than Hitler and his loathing for his Jewish grandfather and Hitlers subsequent actions.

If you wish to see evils perpetrated by religion you need not look beyond christianity. And if you want to understand Islamic terrorists you don't need to go beyond the British maltreatment of these peoples during their "British Mandate" days (thank god those are over) and their "White Mans Burden." You mankey English gits are the root cause of the evil and injustices we see perpetrated on the Islamic world, and your past policies are the first in line when assessing the lineage of the Jihadists.

Gail,
You make some good points, I think Bush is perhaps the wrong leader to be fighting this war, because you can't really fight one kind of religious extremism with another (on many occasions I've thought about what many lefties say about Bush being a bible basher, and his choice of the word "crusade" once being very ill-timed... but I still think Bush is doing what he believes is right for America, not just for "god". Muslims are doing it for God/Allah , he/it/she ( I doubt "she, considering the status of most muslim women) is all that matters to them from waking to sleeping, every move they make.
Admitedly, perhaps throughout history the western world has not done enough to intergrate the islamic world into ours, but surely the muslim population of Europe and America counts as an attempt at this..... some muslims adapt, and start realising their religion is not the be-all and end-all, and not really all that imporatant, but these are a very small minority, most stay devout muslims, and many stay wahabbi-hardcore (like my "Dad".... Philiphides, you're wrong I hate islam not muslims, but my "dad" is one muslim in particular I despise bitterly.... this isn't the reason for my contempt of islam though.... my "dad" showed me how twisted ,horrific and demanding a religion it is through his own religious insanity.... and in the community he was classed as a "good muslim".

I can't remember the exact wording and don't have time to search, but it was along the lines of :
How can you say islam is an evil religion, when it spread in it's prime, across northern Africa and Asia, this proving it is accepting of other cultures...... that was the jist of it.

Disagreeing with the argument that Islam is an evil religion in not quite the same as saying "Islam is benevolent without question".

And you didn't mention what you thought should be done about the 1 billion muslims. You hate Islam by your own admission. So what are you proposing to do about the 1 billion people that call it their religion?

Now this is wrong, it spread so far , so fast, because Muhammed and his ruthless armies were uncompromising in spreading the religion. Those who refused to convert were killed or exhiled, or forced to live as second class citizens in the new muslim society (dhimmis/dhimmitude). Thats not tolerance for other cultures, thats annihilation of them.

And how is this different from Christianity? Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition (I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisistion!)? How about the expulsion of the Jews from Spain? The Jewish ghettoes of Italy? Not to mention the rest of Europe. Then there's the new world. Not to mention the crusades.

Historically the term 'conversion by the sword' is generally used when talking about Christian imperialism, not muslim.

The problem is not any particular religion or belief system. It's extremism. That means muslim extremism, christian extremism, jewish extremism, and capitalist extremism. Pick your poison.

The objection is not to your holding different viewpoints, it's to your spewing vitriolic attacks with an apparent complete lack of understanding that all you are doing is spreading hate. That's not discourse, it's bigotry.

I will repeat a comment I addressed previously to Ricardo;

It appears from the hatred and vitriol that you spew forth here that your proverbial apple has not fallen far from your fathers tree Ricardo.

An angry man opens his mouth and shuts up his eyes. -Cato

Regarding Choice Point, isn't this the same company (under a different corporate name then) that created the voter-list purges used by Katty Harris in the Florida 2000 flim-flamery?

Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition

No one ever expects the...Spanish Inquisition!

"Judith you can be bitchy but you're genuinely sweet sometimes too".

KA, you have keen observation powers. I've been told that more than once or twice. : )

Sorry, never responded to Muckcat. What do I suggest we do about the billion muslims, I suggest we start getting a little western education into the minds of muslim children, see out this war on terror, stop all the propaganda and clerical brain-washing which causes the hardcore muslims to have a jihadist mind-set, or be extremists. It might not work, but neither will doing nothing and just sitting by and allowing the biggest threat to world peace since nazism continue it's world dominance for god mission unabated.