Steve, I'm sorry but I don't understand your fantacy about the dems. They should do alot of things but they don't. They are going to betray us on Social Security. Do you doubt it? the dems are starting to cave. Disgusting!

Damn right. It's high time that someone went after the biggest anti-democratic players in the US: big corporations.

They are the ones paying the politicians, bending and rewriting the laws, polluting where we live and running with all the money while the little guy is left with crumbs.

Good idea, and well reasoned, Steve. What's to lose, particularly if the Dems would like to regain a "reform" reputation? Maybe even more important, since the Repubswant to brand the Dems as "anti-reform" on Social Security. In terms of substantive poliicy, it makes sense; in terms of timing, the politics may be right with public opinion where it is on Big Pharma. Wait unitl everyone sees the degree of budget distress Medicare and Medicaid are going to cause nationally and state-by-state this year and next.
Charles

Price controls will lead to rationing.

Pharmacist: "May I help you?"

Patient: "Yes, I need a prescription for antibiotics."

Pharmacist: "Well, there's a 7-month wait. Here's your pick-up number. See you in October, sir. Next."

Try again Muck. I wasn't arguing for Nixon-style price controls, as you know. I was arguing for the federal government to use its clout to negotiate for best price, and to allow reimportation. So please don't confuse the issue with drivel about rationing, which if it actually came to pass would result in some pretty serious calls for anti-trust and anti-collusion litigation by state AGs and the Justice Department against Big Pharma.

The Democrats need to remember 1910. At that time reform was needed desperatly and the party ran a progressive campaign. The result? The Democrats took both houses of Congress. Today the need for reform of drug industry pricing topical even for me, let me explain.

Recently I took my mother to a doctor appointment. She recieved one costly perscription. The doctor mentioned that the medicare change next year would be a good thing for fixed income seniors like mom. I noted that the only thing that needed changing in the law is the fact that there is no cost containment on the pharmacutical industry. This doctor, who normally wears what one would call a poker face, gave me a wink as if to indicate that he agreed with me but didn't want to put it into words.

On the issue of caving on Social Security, WE in the party must make it plain to any so-called moderates who waffle that they will be punished in the next primary. If there not willing to fight for the people they are useless.

The Dems get money, big money, from Big Pharma too. Not as much as the Repubs, but they still get it. That's why they won't take the mantle of the party of reform. They like the gravy train. Just look at Holy Joe.

Good points, Steve.

Watched C-Span FDA and pharma testing conference
this week. I was amazed that 12 weeks was considered okay for a research study. (besides, all the lies told about all the research costs while omitting all mention of all the high goodies, trips, conferences, etc. payoffs to "mushroom" doctors and hospital staffs [by their pill pushing sales people who by the way won't be hired if over age 40 and are ready to speak the real truth about whatever med.].

Having a great deal of knowledge and knowledge about what is only sick and disease care in the name of Health Care, I have wanted Complementary Medicine Dr/assisters for my use for over ten years. Can't find one. All having gone through the monopoly enterprise of AMA. (and will not go to any affirmative action grad of last 25 years...I know the scores etc. Sorry, liberals out there but that's the problem with affirmative action. And, have been of non-partisan Independent-- Moderates Grouping for years, so no labels stick.)

My very expensive migrane medication costs 75% less in Asia, where I can buy it over the counter. The drug companies' pricing makes no sense and the smarter ones will realize that lower prices will build volume and offset some of the profit loss. Rationing seems pretty unlikely. If, the government and HMOs could negotiate better prices and HMOs follow suit, where are the drug companies going to get a higher price? Canada?

We already ration health care and pharmaceuticals: 45 million Americans have no health insurance, and hence limkited or no access to medical care. Even those covered by Medicaid are in the process of having the dollar amount and number of prescriptions that Medicaid will pay for cut back in state after state. If Bush gets his way and caps Medicaid, that part of rationing will get worse. What do you call the "doughnut hole" in the Medicare plan, where prescriptions won't be paid for? If Muck doesn't like rationing, he is way too late (or much too early, although I do not think this is his intention) to do something about it. "Rationing" is supposed to be a bugaboo that "conservatives" throw at liberals to shut them up about health care policy changes. It is way past time for that canard to ever work in any argument.
Charles

The drug companies' pricing makes no sense and the smarter ones will realize that lower prices will build volume and offset some of the profit loss.

They make perfect sense. It's called looting.

Their rationale is that they need to soak Americans to provide the research budget. When they spend twice as much on advertising as research, it also implies we get soaked for the advertising also. Add that to the massive tax breaks they got during the Raegan years, it means they are lousy corporate citizens. When it all hits the fan and we are eating Soylent Green, I say let's make those who work for big pharma the first course. We'll save the toppers for dessert. The only question I have is which wine is appropriate? Red or White?

Rich, the US consumer subsidizes drugs and drug research for the rest of the world. If prices are lowered here, prices will rise there. Otherwise, the drug companies won't bother making 'em.

(I couldn't decide on "makin' them," "making 'em," or "makin' 'em" in that last sentence. So I did what I did and had 4 Girl Scout Thin Mint cookies. Nuff said.)

Now Steve, regarding the anti-trust, anti-collusion, or anti-freeze on the drug companies; remember, companies only operate to make a profit for their stake holders. I know that sounds like crazy-talk here in the Left Coast Toaster Oven, but if you can't make money, you might as well be fishin'...

Steve-
Nice slapdown on the muckpuppy.

Something else to look at is the drug research angle.

Big pharma howls about how they have to make obscene profits because of the high cost of research.

But a little birdie told me that most drug research is done in universities with public funds.

The truth is medicine and education should be socialized anyway. It's cheaper than the convuleted crap we have now.

If we have the best medical system in the world, then how come other countries aren't trying to emulate it?

Could it be the muckdogs of the world are living in delusionallandâ„¢?

Probably

Price controls will lead to rationing.

Ungodly high prices have lead to rationing, and death.

When my prescription costs exceed my yearly health insurance premium I lose the prescrption benefit. That's rationing, too.

Yah, but if you take away money and profits, then folks just don't work as hard. Not a problem if you don't care if we ever find cures for cancer, aids, et al. People don't work because it's fun. If you take away profits and provide entitlements, it's just more reasons to go fishin' instead of go to work.

Agreed?

or maybe we won't find the cure to cancer, aids, et al because a bunch of superstitious anti-science types outlaw real stem cell research. Just more reason to go to church and pray harder.

Agreed?

Believe it or not, there are some people who advance the cause of humanity with motivations other than greed. Hard to fanthom for a Rethuglican I know, but it happens.

Yah, but if you take away money and profits, then folks just don't work as hard

Wow! So at least you have finally stated out loud and confirmed with that comment what your prized motivation and exi$tence is for living muck. That comment is mighty Judeo-Chri$tian of you...not. That comment also is very telling of the major challenge that faces our society. I got mine, too bad for the rest of you..sick mentality muck.

As Snarky Snark says, many people are motivated to work hard just because it is morally the right thing to do muck. . It is a concept that is alien to you, but many people do just that every single day. Some people (but unfortunately not many republicans)realize that it's not what you get that is important, it is what you give that is important.

There are givers and takers in life, its obvious muck that you are a taker. One day you will find it's not what's in it for me, its what is important for the good and wellbeing of others. I hope no tradegy ever befalls you muck, but if one day you find that your health fails you, just remember your comment and belief system while that lower middle class certified nurses aide wipes your butt because you are too weak or incapacitated to do it. Please tell her/him of the fact, "don't work so hard, because you obvioulsy don't make enough money to motivate you to do this."

Sounds to me as if you need to go fishin and reflect a little more about the meaning of life. Either that or you need to get a life.

Go After Drug Companies And Tax Shelters

I don't have to go after drug companies, they come after me, waving bundles of money.

as far as tax shelters - yeah, i could go for some of those.

Should have been shorter.
Good points made, Steve. Agree.

I find it difficult to read all of this. I think it is like at the F.T.C. where twelve people in North Carolina decide what is decent or not for me AND my grown, and well adjusted, children to watch or listen to.

How can the people of our rich world allow others to grovel for needed medication, not to mention food. And then WE LAY NO CLAIM TO MORAL HIGH GROUND. We stand for it. ALL OF THIS.

Why?

I know there are those who have lots of money and receive some minimal benefit from the millions and billions of dollars of what can ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS WELFARE FOR THE SUPER-WEALTHY.

But the bulk of us are just trying to get by. Some CEO getting another seven figure raise, whose claim to fame is sending jobs elsewhere, doesn’t help me get a pair of glasses.

WHY would anyone deny that?

The people we elect should be working to make MOST of our lives better, not just a few of our lives MUCH BETTER.

Once again you DEMS prove you talk out a paper asshole. If you actually took the time to investigate Merck, Wyeth, etc. etc profits the past few years the above article wouldn't have been written. Drug companies have the distinction of having the lowest PE's among most any other manufacturing industry. Fed over regulation and frivilous lawsuits have severly damaged the industry, thier stock prices and investor sentiment. Then you idiots wonder why there was a vaccine shortage this year.
You DEMS must live in a freakin cave cause you obviously haven't a clue about pharmaceutical companies.

But a little birdie told me that most drug research is done in universities with public funds Sharky"

Name one drug.

"Big pharma howls about how they have to make obscene profits because of the high cost of research." Sharky

Name one company that said "We have to make Big obscene profits because of the high cost of research.
Wyeth recently annouced they took a onetime charge of 4.66 Billion thanks to lawsuits suferring another quarter loss. That brings fen-phen-related charges to $21 billion. That's almost 1/2 the companies total market capitalization. Merck and Pfizer are also getting hammerd.
Sharky, don't post here anymore until you get your head out of your ass. You're an embarrassment to the human race.

CHEVY-

Name one scientist who has received the Nobel Prize for work done at a Pharma Company.

MUCKDOG:"Yah, but if you take away money and profits, then folks just don't work as hard."

Scientists work very hard for the love and challenge of it. OTOH, the folks at Arthur Andersen seemed to have worked a little too hard! :-)

If the dems ever want to see the inside of the WH again they better go after ALL corruption, including their own.

K Street should be nuked and 90% of Congress should be hanging from gallows on Lincoln Mall.

The most encouraging thing I have seen in four years is the fact that our high tech military can't defeat a bunch of determined terrorist or freedom fighters, whichever you prefer...which means that if just half of us ever got the balls to stand up to this failed government we would win.

Great Ideas. I trust that you have forwarded your message to Dr. Dean, Senator Reid, and House Minority Leaded Pelosi.

There are a large number of other things that the Democrats need to do, however these two are a very good starting point.

Great Ideas. I trust that you have forwarded your message to Dr. Dean, Senator Reid, and House Minority Leaded Pelosi" Old Man

LOL Have you noticed Dean's been incogneto since his renark denegrading the Negro race?
Chevy

CHEVY-Name one scientist who has received the Nobel Prize for work done at a Pharma Company.
Posted by Steve J.

Einstein won which has led to the death of millions..Japan/Chernobyl. So did Arafat who killed thousands. What the hell does the Nobel peace prize have to do with bringing life saving drugs to market?
More evidence DEM brains are wired ass backwards.
What a stupid question!! Don't respond, I have zero tolerence for idiots. That's why i stopped comming here. You have Mary the pathological liar, Phidipies who has multiple personality disorders posting here under different screen names EX: Screen name Ali, you have Wacko woman Judith who calls us Hitlers equivalent, etc.etc.. I can't deal with the insanity represented by this blog.
Chevy

Chevy,

Bye. Don't let the door hit you.