Soto:

a majority no longer supports the original decision to go to war in Iraq.

That's because most people do not yet appreciate the sea change this man is effecting.

All I want to know is whether you guys are going to admit ---when Iraq is free and fully functional, Syria is subdued and driven out of Lebanon, Israel is free from the al-Aqsa Martyrs and Hezbollah, and Iran is sloughing off its mullhacracy--- that you were wrong.

Don't forget: your party's anti-war position cost you the election. Middle America thought you people were acid-dropping commie/anarchists who hate the military and the C-in-C. That shit don't fly in flyover country.

Toby, you're so full of shit it's hard to know where to start. And you're not worth the time.

Toby, 42% of those polled say they thought of the word "idiot", "arrogant", or "incompetent" when they thought of Bush.

There's no way to spin that.

Actually Tubby, more and more people who may be slow on the uptake but do eventually get it are realizing what a corrupt, inept, worthless, pathologically lying piece of shit your Dear Leader really is.

And I live in "flyover county".

By the way, have you convinced any of your loved ones (assuming you have any) to join the crusade? The military needs you and yours and every other warflogger to do more than work your pom-poms from the safety of your Barcolounger.

All I want to know is whether you guys are going to admit ---when Iraq is free and fully functional, Syria is subdued and driven out of Lebanon, Israel is free from the al-Aqsa Martyrs and Hezbollah, and Iran is sloughing off its mullhacracy--- that you were wrong.

If all this does indeed happen, I will definetly come in here and totally admit your position is the one true thing.

Its an easy thing to promise cause its never going to happen in the real world. It will only happen in your duluded little fantasy world, and that doesn't count.

See reality trumps fantasy in the end.

Oh and Toby

will you please explain all this Ernest Rohm S.A.
1935 style homo-eroticism coming out of Dear Leaders castle?

Frankly its wierd and kinda creepy.

Help me understand

now with new improved snark

Snark keeps forgetting that liberals who stand for gay rights aren't supposed to consider homosexuality to be deviant or something perverse.

Check the logic: the anti-Bush crowd are dogging the White House for admitting a homosexual into the press briefings, but assuming that McClellan knew Guckert was gay, wouldn't his admission to the White House constitute tolerance of homosexuality?

The only assholes in this equation are Bush's detractors who can't keep their ethics straight. Are they homophobes or just hypocrites?

Toby,
You are ignoring the basic fact that the guy is a PROSTITUTE!!!

Soto:

Toby, 42% of those polled say they thought of the word "idiot", "arrogant", or "incompetent" when they thought of Bush.

Forty-five percent thought he was honest and fair.

There's no way to spin that.

But I just did.

Now here's a much more interesting pair of numbers: 286-251.

Don't you agree?

Now Toby, if jim/jeff likes it up the booty hole....well thats just duckie with me.

And if unka Karl likes that bald head looking up at him while jim/jeff does the slobbenondeknobbin, well thats OK.

Its just that whole leatherboy military hotstud thing that started with G Gorden Liddys lusting for flightsuit boys manly package, and ended with the big christian gay prostitute everbodys buttboy faux journalist thing that has me confused.

I just need you to explain it to me please?

That's because most people do not yet appreciate the sea change this man is effecting.

You bet. And when they do they'll jail him and smack his images with their shoes. His statues will topple and he'll be reviled for the legacy he left the United States.

Are they homophobes or just hypocrites?

We just can't get the image of the chimporer being bent-over by the prostiute out of our minds.

because you know your always so in touch with what Dear Leaders wonderfull intintions are.

Tell my why this isnt some truly messed up sick kinky sh*t.

You know, Caligula style wierdness/power trip.

Just hold me cause im scared.

What are you wanting me to explain to you, Snark? Do you want me to examine all the reasons why your vulgarity is pitiable?

ga6thdem:

You are ignoring the basic fact that the guy is a PROSTITUTE!!!

Which would make him different from a lot of other reporters how?

Steve: I doubt the bad ratings will mean much until he sinks to 25-30% approval....then the MSM may peek out from the foxhole and start badgering the admin, for now, they still get to call the plays...sigh!!!

but Toby, its not my vulgarity.

Don't shoot the messenger

That vulgarity comes from that big white house in DC.

You know....where Dear Leader lives.

His positives were at 34%, his negatives at 42%. How is that good for him?

Are they homophobes or just hypocrites?

This is the exact kind of backward logic that is exemplary of this administration and republicans in general. Toby We are not the ones who are hypocrites, you and yours are. If Jeff/James wants to have homosexual sex every night of the week I wouldn't care. Matter of fact, if he had wanted to fly out to San Francisco to get married I wouldn't have cared. I am not critical of the fact that he is a homosexual, I am critical of the fact that he is a homosexual who, excuse the language, is a prostitute of an administration that hates homosexuals. I'm critical of the hypocrisy.

Of course as someone else mentioned above he is a sexual prostitute and that I won't stand for. Not to mention the press pass, et al, which should really be the important issue.

Chris:

I am not critical of the fact that he is a homosexual, I am critical of the fact that he is a homosexual who, excuse the language, is a prostitute of an administration that hates homosexuals. I'm critical of the hypocrisy.

You don't know me, so let me set you straight (as it were): I support gay rights. Without reservation. That's because I know that homosexuality is a natural state of being for some. In fact, I believe that homosexuality is an evolutionary advantage to our species.

My problem with the Left's [outrage] over "Gannongate" is that it's fake.

Let's say that Guckert is a prostitute. I believe he is. How does that, in itself, disqualify him from having opinions and the right to make a living as a journalist? Guckert was not subject to the kinds of background checks that are done on permanent media representatives in the White House Press Corps. My understanding is that he got in under a much less stringent clearance procedure for temporary spots in the briefing room.

I figure Guckert got as far as he did because he demonstrated a conservative, pro-Administration agenda in his questions and work. You want to call it propagandism? Fine. I see the same shit from the other side every time I turn on the TV or cruise my online sources.

I keep asking my opponents why they think that not even the White House Press Association wants to get involved in credentialing these reporters. No one has an answer because they know what the result would be: charges that this or any other Administration is stacking the deck or punishing this group or that one. It's not worth the trouble.

But you apparently want to exclude your ideological opponents from the chance at questioning our country's leaders. Be outraged all you want at Guckert's personal life, but know that it's irrelevant to his right to speak his mind or even parrot his idols.

Hi guys. Been in Denver for a week, but I am back. Now, we are forgetting one little thing here. Jeff or whatever his name is, is not only a prostitute, but has a porn site on the Internet where he can display his "little private parts". Can you imagine if Clinton was in the WH right now? Talk about double standards. Sure makes a little bj in the WH seem pretty insignificant doesn't it?

Welcome back Judith! Hope you had a good time in Denver.

My problem with the Left's [outrage] over "Gannongate" is that it's fake.

Don't delude yourself. It's as real as it can be!

I ask this again:

So, what would it cost to hire an email spa**er to send an email with the subject line "Read this If You Support President Bush," and a message saying "Search for Jeff Gannon on the Internet"? Could we just hit reply all on the sp*m we get and accomplish the same thing free of cost?

Well, Toby, to begin with I guess I must apologize, I should have just said yours instead of you. I bet you’re a real popular guy in your tent for holding the belief that "homosexuality is a natural state of being for some."

And you are right a person can obviously not be taken off the job for merely being a hypocrite. That still won't change my opinion of their hypocrisy. Notice in my post above I merely said critical, not prosecuted or fired.

As for the press pass, well here . Our boy was not using the pass for its intended purposes.

I see the same shit from the other side every time I turn on the TV.

Uh, examples? Like what Fox, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC?

I keep asking my opponents why they think that not even the White House Press Association wants to get involved in credentialing these reporters. No one has an answer because they know what the result would be: charges that this or any other Administration is stacking the deck or punishing this group or that one. It's not worth the trouble.

There are strict credentials in place, for permanent press members. Like I said above, Gannon misused the system. Also the fact that you don't care weather or not the Whitehouse’s press corp. are just stooges, no matter the administration, is troubling to say the least.

In all honesty Toby, this is not an issue I know that much about, and others on this site could probably argue a legal case against Gannon much better then I could. But (by your own admission via your ‘Gannon can express his opinion’ argument) I can still hold the opinion that in this uber-"moral" administration it is hypocritical to hire (well OK hired by "Texas Republicans") a journalist that is a military-minded male prostitute.

Oh, PUH-lease Toby. You're smart enough to know Guckert was sucking down some White House administration schlong to get a paycheck from the White House, probably indirectly, but nonetheless, he was put in there to fuck up the press, to control spin. He wasn't put in there as a reporter, but as a psy-operation. The White House propagandized a free press, we're talking about subverting a formerly free government. It reeks of heavy-handed totaliarian tactics. And there can be no doubt, the White House knew what this guy was, a frigging whore ripping off the public trust. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're too stupid to know it, Toby, and since when does being an internet-advertised prostitut qualify as a private life? Leave it to Bush to destroy dignity in the White Hous.

Bell (on Guckert):

He wasn't put in there as a reporter, but as a psy-operation.

That's an interesting admission. Do you think Karl Rove deliberately admitted a gay prostitute into the WH to give dumbass Leftists and Bush-haters something completely fucking irrelevant to get all worked up over? Hmmm. "It's so crazy, it might just work!"

The White House propagandized a free press, we're talking about subverting a formerly free government.

You are not to be taken seriously.

Totalitarian tactics, not "totaliarian," and prostitute, not "prostitut," and White House, not "White Hous."

Zoe Baird and Linda Chavez were both locked out of the jobs of their dreams because they had once employed illegal aliens. The same thing happened to Lani Guinier and Robert Bork for their own ideological crimes.

How is it that James Guckert is forever barred from asking the President or his spokesmen questions in a press setting? Because of his homosexuality and his being a prostitute?

You people are opposed to Guckert ideologically. You are destroying him as a man and a fallible human being because it's nothing at all to do so ---and, in the bargain, you get to cluck and croak about the hypocrisy of the gay-hating GOP. Get serious: the anti-gay rhetoric among the Left is indistinguishable from the fag-bashingest crap you've ever heard a conservative Christian say.

I don't care if you admit I'm right because I know you're wrong.

No, Toby, Guckert was put in there to be the press secretary's, and apparently, the president's bitch, to be the go-to-guy when the questions got too tough, to spin the news. To control the press. And being a prostitute is a career choice, not a personal freedom nor biology.

"Seriously?" Toby, you're the fool here. A troll on a leftie board, that's all you are. You've got no friends here, no allies, no nothing. A few other trolls come by and parrot you, beyond that, some people are polite to you, most not. But, really, Toby, why do you come here? Do you like the abuse? Is that it? Somebody fucked you over enough times and now you dig it? You're into that are you? What's the real reason you get off on invective?

Bell:

Toby, you're the fool here. A troll on a leftie board, that's all you are. You've got no friends here, no allies, no nothing. A few other trolls come by and parrot you, beyond that, some people are polite to you, most not. But, really, Toby, why do you come here? Do you like the abuse? Is that it? Somebody fucked you over enough times and now you dig it? You're into that are you? What's the real reason you get off on invective?

Case in point. Bell doesn't like my politics, so he reaches into his homophobic bag of tricks and tries to insult me with a bunch of garbage.

(You're a second-rate mind, Bell. I've told you that before, but you need to be reminded.)

I'm not insulting you, Toby, and what you think of me is silly. I like to read blogs, to exchange ideas, hear news, etc. I've got nothing against any group of people, like gays. Who one loves is one's own business. They got a right. But what about you, Toby?

Why do you perceive my comments as homophobic? That's not what I was driving at.

I'm talking about my observation of your words. You get off on being insulted. You like going places where you're not particularly welcome. You like hearing people say mean things about you. And you invite it. You poke at people. You ask them to hate you. You invite them to spew insults at you. You are by definition some kind of sadomasochist. It's not just trolling, or looking to exchange views with people of different views. You want to be insulted. You want to be a center of attention, no matter that it's bad attention. You actually like bad attention. Maybe it's related to some kind of marytr complex -- "I took the truth to those heathen liberals," or maybe it conceals some personal powerlessness in your real life, or somesuch garbage -- but even if that's what it is, that's only what you tell yourself to feel better about it. The real truth is you're here because you have come to learn, through experience, that bad attention is better than good attention. You don't remember how to do something that pleases people, that does something nice for them. What you know now is negative reinforcement, and you get with it as often as you can. Like a beaten but loyal puppy. Why, Toby? Who did this to you? It's actually kind of funny how we insult you around here -- because it no doubt pales in comparison to whoever fucked you over so badly. I am sorry for you that you don't know the better side of human nature.

Dude, I cut my online teeth years ago arguing the Authorship Question in a Shakespeare Usenet group. Commenters on political blogs are fucking pikers by comparison, so don't flatter yourself. You wouldn't know the first thing about mind games between strangers, so just content yourself with your mediocrity and let it go.

I am glad that all that touchy-feely, happy birthday stuff is over between Soto and Petzold. Back to war! I was a little disappointed Cupcake didn't wish the blog a happy birthday. I personally believe Cupcake is a woman who is "hormanly-charged". I bet she is a fantastic lay. Me thinks she is yearning for Soto to tame her. Question is can Soto Man-Up? (Don't get me started on Petzold seeking a mancrush from Soto)

I'm not playing "mind games" with you, Toby, and there's no flattery to me in talking about you. I don't know you. I know what you are, though. What you say here is exactly what I'm talking about:

I cut my online teeth years ago arguing the Authorship Question in a Shakespeare Usenet group. Commenters on political blogs are fucking pikers by comparison...

You're copping to exactly what I ascribed to you. You go out, you insult, you invite insult, and you like it. You think it's fun. You desire conflict, one that you don't actually win, where you're outnumbered and get "shouted" down, eventually. Then, you come back for more. You come here to a leftie board and insult our analysis, and invite hatred in return. Negativity actually makes you feel good, strokes your ego. You're doing it here, and you say you did it elsewhere, too. You don't know or don't care for real positive reinforcement, perhaps because whatever negativity you have in your own real life or formative experiences was of such an intensity that you no longer know good. Like I said, our insults are nothing to whoever made you this way. You are a sadomasochist. By definition. None of the other trolls makes or takes things so personally, with such an exaggerated sense of self. You're INTO this. It's sad.

Dude, I cut my online teeth years ago arguing the Authorship Question in a Shakespeare Usenet group.

So by your own admission you are TOTALLY FUCKING INSANE. And stupid. And will never know the love of another human. Drink bleach and make your life brighter.

and, in the bargain, you get to cluck and croak about the hypocrisy of the gay-hating GOP. Get serious: the anti-gay rhetoric among the Left is indistinguishable from the fag-bashingest crap you've ever heard a conservative Christian say.

Toby, how many states passed amendments barring gay marriage, even though it is highly unlikely that gay marriage would be legalized in those states, because of laws already on the books (and the overall redness of the state, i.e. not Massachusetts)? I should know I live in one of them. And why would the people of a state pass these laws given the above?

Don't give me this straw man of the left crap, bigotry toward gays is obvious (at least in my community), it's just most of the bigoted people are too ashamed to express their opinion.

Anyway, comparing my fortitude for the homosexual community to the zealousness Christian Right is like comparing apples to oranges. Scratch that, up to down, black to white, day to night, matter to anti-matter. Yes, in intensity may be the same, but that is where it ends. The two are pretty much opposites, at least in their ends.

I don't care if you admit I'm right because I know you're wrong.

Who's playing word games now Toby, don't think I can't see right through that.

Thersites, I've never met a troll who kept coming back again and again and again, ad infinitum, like Toby. Say what you want about someone like muckdog, but he's not entirely out there and it is possible to have a reasonable disagreement with him over substantive policy or economic-related issues.

Call me stupid, it finally occurred to me, just now, that we are dealing with someone who has real issues, real emotional difficulties in life. I'm not saying he's insane or anything, just that therapy would not be of harm to him. I know, it's glaringly obvious. But I just realized it. I think it's this bulletin-board-like method of communication. If it were real life, it would've been easier to see, or maybe I'm just not quick on the touchy-feely stuff.

Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a thread so thoroughly hijacked.

What did the original post have to do with Gannon?

Just to get back to the point: the view of Bush as an arrogant and/or incompetent idiot is becoming the dominant view. Just wanted to remind everyone of that ...

Of course, Bush the "arrogant, incompetent, idiot" doesn't do us a whole lot of good now. Where the heck were these people back in November?

Funny how the subject of the palestinian derailment of the middle east peace process doesn't seem to have been important enough to debate today. I mean obviously a poll taken by anti-Bush co. in anti-Bush town , is far more important than the plight and possible destruction of an entire region of the middle east, but I thought it would a least get a mention.

Or doesn't it matter when palestinians kill israelis in an unprovoked attack (it's okay , they're not third world like palestine, their kids are insured)???
To me it does, you see the left continually give Ariel Sharon a hard time for his actions in the past and never look at things from the israeli perspective (for example has it never occured that Israelis have as much right to be there as you europeans have to be in America... actually more right, because the region that is the 1948 Israel is the place they originated, where their ancestors the semites lived for centuries until muslim invaders slaughtered, exiled and converted them all).
Look at it this way, Sharon is at least showing signs of commitment to this peace process, he's evacuating the settlements in Gaza, he's released terrorists from prison..... hmmm... whats Abbas done (apart from make empty promises)??? Nothing!!!
Obviously jihadists who play by their rules aren't going to stop killing their hated jewish kaffir, just because Abbas says there's a ceasefire (the koran specifically says no peace deals can be made with kaffir, therefore all peace treaties from muslims are null and void), therefore he should have rounded them all up before they had a chance to break the agreement, just as they have!!!

Where the heck were these people back in November?

Yep. I wish it were then.

But, it does help now. Doesn't put Bush in a position of strength to try to take down the most popular government program ever.

btw, I love right-wing attacks that go: you aren't talking about X, therefore you think Y. Whatever.

Bush is the worst Preznit ever. People know it...

...the last election was one of those sleep walking affairs where the country woke up and knew it was mistake... unfortunately thise 'wake up' will be a 'Groundhog Day' like experience that will continue for four more years and maybe longer depending on his legacy...

K.A., noone is happier about the suicide bombing than Sharon. The last thing the Likudniks want is a "peace process".

Now the IDF can return to what they do best: murdering Palestinans and stealing their land and resources. Actually, they never really stopped doing either, have they?

so he reaches into his homophobic bag of tricks and tries to insult me with a bunch of garbage.

Don't you just love it. We're called traitors because we don't get a woody when we think about soldiers dying unnecessary deaths over oil in Iraq. Then we're told we don't follow our glorious 'leeder' blindly enough. Now we're called homophobes because we want to know what the hell a male prostitute was doing all over the White House. Then we're told we don't know a damn thing about the Bard. Will the hatred never cease? Why can't we all just....bullshit!

cut my online teeth years ago arguing the Authorship Question

And that's what seperates us here. You take inference and weave it into incredulous facts. We seem to prefer to examine facts and make inferences from them. Our argument is, in fact, fact based. Yours is a pile of trash.

Prediction; America will have real national healthcare BEFORE the Israelis and the Palestinians sign a peace treaty.

therefore he should have rounded them all up before they had a chance to break the agreement, just as they have!!!

What a macaroon.

i feel like an idiot having any hope at all, but maybe the last few weeks of rapproachement can keep things from getting out of hand.

when bush came into office, there were 3 major impediments to the ME peace process: sharon, arafat, and bush. well, arafat's dead, bush is keeping his nose out of it, and sharon is in a government with labor so he can forsake the fundies if he has to (cf gaza). if not now, when? all us peaceniks are relying on sharon to succeed, whether we like it or not.

i feel like an idiot having any hope at all, but maybe the last few weeks of rapproachement can keep things from getting out of hand

and of course i'm referring to israel and palestine, not the current food fight/troll bashing

Huh?

Our billions in annual aid to Israel, our vetoing of every UN condemnation of Israel, and our unconditional backing of every action of Israel - no matter how atrocious - translates into "bush is keeping his nose out of it"?

I wish we really would keep our nose out of it, since we're simply incapable of being an honest, impartial broker in this matter. It may well have been resolved long ago if we had.

anonymous,

if we sent an envoy to "facilitate" talks between the israelis and palestinians, do you think that would move things along? i don't like our billions to israel any more than i like our billions to egypt, but politics is the art of the possible. your points are all legitimate criticisms of the status quo, but to say there's no difference between a likud/settler gov and a likud/labor gov, that there's no difference between a us envoy at every meeting between the sides and bilateral talks, that there's no difference between arafat and abu mazen - i wonder why you read the papers at all.

and please make up a name if you want a conversation or i'll have to call you, um, melvin.

When I surfed over here this morning and saw the number of responses to a post about shrub, I knew that Toby had come back to defend his boy and stink up the place. I think it would be fun to have our own Pew poll about Toby. Which of these statements describe your sentiment about our favorite wing nut?

( )arrogant
( )incompetent
(X)idiot

Now Toby, before you get self-righteous and accuse us of character assassination. Your defense of the hypocrite homo gannon/guckert, who brags about the character assassinations he has helped accomplish, gives you no credibility to claim this defense.

I just saw a great Onion article that I wanted to share with everybody. It reminds me of everybody's favorite troll...

Excellent links there, Matt. A red state death-monger fascit who doesn't give a rats ass if his son dies in Iraq. Just more cannon fodder for policy. What a piece of work. And what an eloquent example of neo-con thinking. People are nothing: business and war are everything.

The time to take that sailboat to Patagonia is closer at hand every day.

toby pretzel

after reading many of your comments on the gannon affair and your rational for it..it occurs to me that you and he are very much the same...

Joe, I vote for all the above. For Tubby and his Dear Leader.

toby pretzel

after reading many of your comments on the gannon affair and your rational for it..it occurs to me that you and he are very much the same.

that's not true; I'm a top.

those italics tags keep slipping away from me, for some reason

and i thought his name was "toady"

One thing we can be sure of: No Democrat in Congress dares resist a president with the Will of the People™ so solidly behind him.

Iraq is free and fully functional

Toby, please don't lie...your nose is growing

yeah well everyone was bearish on the stock market on tuesday t en we rallied three days in a row.

polls are funny that way.

I think that Toby is a cover name for a whole host of trolls.
And Mucktroll is correct in stating that the market rallied for three days (although I can't see how that compares to a Poll??) after some, including me, emphasized how a hard market sell off was one good reason why privatizing SS is bad. But really, the point I was making, and the three good days validated it, was that the market is unpredictable, and when you want "security" for your old age, unpredictability is not where you want to be. You want predictable, and that is SS in its current form, with the cap raised to $120,000. Not gambling your retirement on some start-up.

It's only a matter of time before our idiot SCLM will realize that Shrub is not invulernable at all. When the Chicago Tribune writes the lead editorial on the Guckert scandal, the dam won't hold much longer.

Brian, I always enjoy your posts. Keep that troll repellant handy!