What a beautiful example of sheer animalistic treachery dumped on the stunned, helpless American citizenry (I'm speaking only of the citizens with brains)! Shock upon shock, gross-out after gross-out: if they can go this LOW..
Larre, a wonderful post as usual. What are we going to do? How long can we endure this assault by so-called elected officials?

"What these disgusting, dirt-covered worms won't do to eat the flesh off the body politic."

So what's new????

Michael was on TV this morning and made the statement that this situation is repeated thousands of times on any given day (meaning life support being discontinued). This case is only significant to certain people, i.e., politicians, because it can serve their self interest.

By-the-way, does anyone know about casino money and a politician. On Hardball this morning something was said that a story was about to break that would take out several members of our Government. Didn't get the details.

Could that be the reason for the distractions of baseball and the right to die case?

"the U.S. House and Senate issued subpoenaes demanding that Florida nursing home patient Terry Schiavo, her care-givers, and afflicted family members testify". larre

Terry Schiavo was subpoenad to testify???? Are you nuts Larre? I think your cheese slid off its cracker boy. The other two who responded in kind to your insane post have to be as nuts as you to think Terry is going to testify. How embarrassing!!
Chevy

Chevy:

It's not me that's nuts. From ABC News:

Hours before a feeding tube was to be removed from a brain-damaged Florida woman, U.S. lawmakers on Friday called on the woman to appear before congressional committees in an attempt to keep her alive.

Chevy, try educating yourself before posting.

"This week we witnessed William Frist, Tom Delay, and not a few Democrats as well, stooping to new depths...."

Thank you for always hating the Dems even as you hate the Republican leadership that is LEADING this country down a hole. God forbid you should ever stop reminding the Dems that self-loathing is the cornerstone of the angry-left philosophy.

Frist = Delay = "Not a few Dems"!

Stay pure.

Elbow: "Thank you for always hating the Dems even as you hate the Republican leadership that is LEADING this country down a hole. God forbid you should ever stop reminding the Dems that self-loathing is the cornerstone of the angry-left philosophy."

We will stop when Democrats stop acting and reacting like Republicans.

Gov. Jeb Bush said the judge's decision "breaks my heart'' and noted it often takes two decades for a death row inmate's appeals to go through the system.

"There's this rush to starve her to death,'' Bush said.

Yeah, Jebby. After 15 years they shouldn't be rushing into withdrawing the feeding tube. Well, I guess we should wait for another five years making the 20 year mark, and then withdraw the feeding tube. What an f**king idiot.

yes chevy, your heroes in washington subpeonaed a woman in a "persistent vegetative state." aren't you proud of them?

idiot.

"I do not think the country has seen anything this extraordinary,"

Well, we seem to have forgotten Nancy Cruzan and the jack-off AG of Missouri at the time, John Ashcroft. Let the eagle fuckin' soar.

By-the-way, does anyone know about casino money and a politician.

Yeah. That's part of the Delay thing. Google "lobbyists indian casino" and you can start chasing down what you want. The enemy of the people, Ralph Reed, Mr. anti-gambling with a stick up his ass, took lots of money from Indian casinos. Cool!

One of the more painful experiences of my life was watching my grandmother die. She had suffered a devastating stroke that left her partially paralyzed and unable to speak. But she was able to forcefully refuse any food or water offered to her. My mother--the daughter of my grandmother--and I had to consider what my grandmother's wishes were. It was clear that she was refusing food and water. We concluded that she wanted to die. We tried to make her as comfortable as possible and sat with her as she slowly faded. I don't remember how many days passed before she began breathing very heavily, then softly, then her breathing stopped. My mother and I did not cry when my grandmother passed. We had spent too much time crying already. And my grandmother's passing was a deliverance from pain and a final act of courage and independence. I feel so very sorry for all the parties involved in this matter: Terri Shiavo's husband, her parents, and her friends. I at least had the benefit of having my grandmother clearly express her desire to stop eating and drinking water. Shiavo's family has to struggle with her profound silence. I feel incredible anger towards the politicians who are attempting to benefit politically from this tragedy. Their utter lack of humanity and compassion is saddening. I hope they never have to face the pain that Shiavo's family is going through. And if they do, I hope that they don't find their lives and emotions turned into a public spectacle.

phid, you mean ralph reed is a flaming hypocrite who doesn't care about anything but money? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

I agree that these actions were stupid and shameful, and I am contacting my GOP representatives to say so.

Indeed there ARE much more important things to do: killing or neutralizing our enemies, drilling for oil, packing the courts with neocons, and deconstructing the UN.

Hmm, on second though, wonder why the left is complaining about these diversions.

Phidipides. Thanks for the info.

marcus, you forgot war profiteering and eviscerating the constitution.

and dismantling social security

This pandering to ignorance by the media is most responsible for the mess the nation's in. Prior Reagan this ignorance reproduced a la mushrooms in chicken manure, in the dark, mostly in the south. Now they're in power. Politicians in power wanting to stay in power pander to this ignorance via the media. Today's media lacking self esteem, having no self respect, is but a whore to power and so the circle is complete. So it is that it is left up to those like you and me to point out the hypocrisy of being pro life while supporting the death penalty and letting a million children starve to death, of being opposed to the right to die while thinking it just dandy to kill hundreds of thousands of black, brown or yellow for oil; it is left to us to tell them first thing every morning of every day what ignorant asses they are. Alas, we must do so because lo these hundreds of years no one told them, the ignorance fermented, reproduced and now threatens the nation, the world.

To the anonymous idiot who wrote this:

"We will stop when Democrats stop acting and reacting like Republicans."

Dems and Reps act like each other because they're all members of the same fundamentally corrupt political process. The best we can hope for in reality, as opposed to out in the loony reaches of the universe where you live, is to find people who side on average with citizens over corporations, with freedoms over tyrannies.

If you're looking for political virgins to worship in any party you can forget it. As Ralph Nader has so sickeningly proven over the last eight years, there is no man above corruption and ego.

Get a spine.

Terence, under the last Open Thread, I also have written of withdrawing life support for someone in my family three weeks ago. It was the most difficult decision of my life, because I didn't want to let her go. As I posted: "No one should pass judgement on anyone who travels this road until they have faced the same journey."

"We will stop when Democrats stop acting and reacting like Republicans."

Dems and Reps act like each other because they're all members of the same fundamentally corrupt political process. The best we can hope for in reality, as opposed to out in the loony reaches of the universe where you live, is to find people who side on average with citizens over corporations, with freedoms over tyrannies.

So, what's the argument. You just said what I said.

larre, great post and summary of the case.

I just disagree at the end...personally the republicans are the ones who are "politicizing" the case and according to many opinion polls I have seen their interference isn't very popular at all. Most people think the government should stay out of it and that they agree with the husband here. I also think people can see through the republicans "cheap" politicization stunt here. The democrats should disagree and state as such, but should keep a low profile because if they didn't then they would be in fact feeding into the politicization of it which the majority of people don't agree with or want (according to opinion polls)

Long story short, while the republicans appear to be loudly and prouldly shooting themselves in the foot here over this case, the democrats would be smart to get out of the way (perhaps quietly handing them a few bullets) expressing their disagreement but stating they don't want to politicize this because it really is a private personal family medical decision and issue...not a political or government decisiion.

Judith,

"So, what's the argument. You just said what I said."

The argument is that your expectations can never be met in reality. It's never, ever going to happen. And no third party or cause is going to avoid the traps the major parties have fallen into. It's part of the fabric of human politics.

Where you and I differ is that you'd rather throw around holier-than-thou rhetoric than dirty your hands by getting behind the Dems as a party. You're part of the left that doesn't want to be corrupted by an inherently corrupt process, and I think that's both selfish and naive.

A blogger in Florida, Mark Lane, has an editorial round-up of that state's newspapers.

The Christian Right-wing position doesn't seem to be playing well in a state with one of the nation's oldest populations.

Phidipides. Thanks for the info.

Hi Judith. I didn't read the name on your post or I would have done a chronology for you. Sorry about that.

Where you and I differ is that you'd rather throw around holier-than-thou rhetoric than dirty your hands by getting behind the Dems as a party.

The party needs the Judiths of the world. Without them we become just like the neo-cons. There must be a conscience to all of this or it becomes us against us. There are those of us in the party who are more than willing and able to take on the down and dirty stuff. We need Judith to keep our long-term aspirations in focus.

phidipedes:

"The party needs the Judiths of the world."

Bullshit. Judith doesn't belong to 'the party', she belongs to an absolutist cult that aspires to a perfect political deity - just like the far right. If politics is like making sausages, and it is, Judith wants a bloodless sausage.

"Without them we become just like the neo-cons."

Jesus Christ, do you even listen to yourself? Is Ted Kennedy just like the neocons? Kerry? Wellstone? Conyers? Waxman? Dean?

"There must be a conscience to all of this or it becomes us against us."

There IS a conscience, which is why we're not all Republicans. But that's about as good as it gets if you want to actually get anything done. This pervasive utopianism on the left is a waste of time and a self-defeating position.

"We need Judith to keep our long-term aspirations in focus."

The Judiths of the world aren't beacons, they're impediments. They don't lead us to victories, they obstruct compromise and effectiveness by demanding political purity.

I'm sorry, but I've heard all I ever want to hear from people on both ends of the political specturm who adopt hardline ideological views just to help themselves sleep at night. If the left feels justified in equating Dems with neocons then we don't even need an enemy.

Thanks Judith. I went back and read your previous post. I think that the cynical political use of the Schiavo case and others like it will backfire precisely because so many people have faced--or can imagine facing--these kinds of situations. And thankfully they don't usually have to make that journey under the spotlight of Congress. By trying to leverage people's grief and struggle for political gain the Delay's of this world will reap the animus of countless people who have had to let go of loved ones. True, they may score points with their base but those gains will be offset by the damage they do themselves by bringing up painful memories for millions of people. The Republicans are showing themselves to be all to eager to intrude into the most painful and private decisions that families (biological or chosen) have to deal with.

I am absolutely disgusted with the recent events in Congress and the shameful behavior of our elected federal representatives. In addition to the despicable grandstanding on the tragic Terry Schiavo matter, we have Congress wasting time holding hearings on steroid use in baseball, revelations that Tom DeLay is practically running a money laundering operation from his post as majority leader and the GOP majority, in effect, obstructing justice by packing its ethics committee with political hacks in order to protect DeLay. To make matters worse, we now have career politicians who seem more interested in keeping their jobs and enhancing their own power than in working on behalf of the public good and when they do leave office, they cash in from their experience by becoming lobbyists. What makes this particularly galling to me is that my tax dollars are being used to finance or subsidize these appalling activities.

I believe that the American people should resort to their own "nuclear option" and start a movement for term limits of all members of Congress. That is perhaps the only way to stop the nonsense going on in Congress and to halt the excesses of our elected officials. I have heard several opponents of term limits, most notably Representative Henry Hyde of Illinois, say term limits would deprive the country of leadership and experience. In light of recent events going on in Congress, I think the country would be better off without such "leadership" and "experience."

packing its ethics committee with political hacks in order to protect DeLay

in fact, at least one of the new members of the politboro, i mean ethics committee, donated money to tom delay's legal fund. as far as delay is concerned, this whole thing is to distract from the shitstorm a-brewin. terry schiavo is a prop to him, just like a soldier, just like a church. as the rude one put it, "What these disgusting, dirt-covered worms won't do to eat the flesh off the body politic."

shit, that's the same quote larre used. i knew i heard it somewhere.

Elbow Mac,

The ability to stick to a principal and to compromise are not mutually exclusive. The point is to compromise for the better. Coming up with a 'plan' be it on Social Security or anything else that goes against a held principal is not a good thing. A large part of recent GOP success is that many believe that they stand for something. Compromise is a tool that should be used to make things better.

Right now, the GOP leadership can pass almost anything that they can get their own members to swallow. The fact that their members don't want to swallow some things is another reason why the Dems. should not devolop 'plans' that the GOP can take credit for. That would be bad for the nation and bad for the party.

Compromise to advance principals yes, compromise to retreat principals never.

Elbow, did you take a crabby pill this morning?

First of all, I have the right, no duty, to protest in anyway I can against any Democrat who sells my rights or votes against the self interest of Americans. I don't know what your mind set is, but in my world you fight against those who are not working for the best interest of the Party, which by-the-way means us and the American people.

ELBOW:
"Dems and Reps act like each other because they're all members of the same fundamentally corrupt political process. The best we can hope for in reality, as opposed to out in the loony reaches of the universe where you live, is to find people who side on average with citizens over corporations, with freedoms over tyrannies."

You have assumed much my friend, without having been on this Blog and read all my posts for the past two years. If you had, you would know several things about me. While you seem to think that I live in the "loony universe" (have no idea where that came from) I will assure you that my core beliefs are "citizens over corporations" and "freedoms over tyrannies."

ELBOW
"Looking for political virgins to worship"?

Give me a fucking break. Do you really believe that I would read The Left Coaster and still believe in "political virgins"? LOL However, this I do know. There are some honest people in the political world, and I will work as hard as I can to help in their elections to Government positions. Yes, no man is above corruption and ego, however, I do not believe that all politicians are corrupt, as evidently you do.

ELBOW:
"Where you and I differ is that you'd rather throw around holier-than-thou rhetoric than dirty your hands by getting behind the Dems as a party."

Holier-than-thou? I will say that I get a little indignate when a bankruptcy bill is passed and fourteen Democrats along with the Republicans vote for it. Just for your information, I have worked for this Party for over 30 years, so yeah, I have gotten my hands dirty, so to speak.

ELBOW:
"Your part of the left that doesn't want to be corrupted by an inherently corrupt process, and I think that's both selfish and naive."

???

ELBOW:
"The Judiths of the world aren't beacons, they're impediments."

You know Elbow, I am beginning to think that you are telling us more about who you are than who I am. I have no idea where you are getting this crap. Excuse me, but you are way off base. However, you betcha I am an impediment to anyone who joins with the neocons and sells American down the fascist hell hole.

There are several Democrats in our Party who are selling us out because they have forgotten what this Party stands for. That is fact whether you like it or not. Now we can pretend it is not happening, or we can get off our collective butts and run candidates against those who have long forgotten the Democratic Party and us.

Elbow, you seem so angry with me. May I suggest that your anger is very misdirected. I'm not the enemy, but some members of our party are. We would be better served if you directed your energies toward those few who have sold out, i.e., Lieberman.

Phidipides: Thanks as usual for your support and kind words. I guess suggesting that some Democrats are acting like Republicans can really upset some people.

This Country may be open and ready for term limits and a third party more now than in the past.

Could Mark Lane be the same Mark Lane who wrote "Rush to Judgement"?

Larre: Could Mark Lane be the same Mark Lane who wrote "Rush to Judgement"?

Terence, could not have said it better.

Hours before a feeding tube was to be removed from a brain-damaged Florida woman, U.S. lawmakers on Friday called on the woman to appear before congressional committees in an attempt to keep her alive.Posted by larre

Come on Larre use your brain. No one called for Terry to testify. It's an obvious misprint. I'm shocked you didn't have the resources to question the validity of such a ludicrous statment.

yes chevy, your heroes in washington subpeonaed a woman in a "persistent vegetative state." aren't you proud of them?idiot Posted by benjoya

Give me the link to the supeona or proof thereof.
Failure to do so reinforces my low opinion of you and we'll see who the idiot is.
King
God Bless GW Bush and his war on terrorists and demorats.

Chevy, your stupidity just amazes me sometimes. She was subpeonaed as a witness. It was a legal move, because once she is on a witness list, she is protected by certain rights. It was a legal maneuver to stop her from being taken off life support. Obviously it didn't work. If you want the story, go find it yourself on Google.

Chevy,

I'm going to assume that your posts are an act of satire. But just in case:

"The Senate Health Committee has requested that Terri Schiavo and her husband, Michael, appear at an official committee hearing on March 28. Earlier Friday, a House committee was issuing congressional subpoenas to stop doctors from disconnecting the tube.

The hospice where Terri Schiavo lives received a subpoena late Friday morning, spokeswoman Louise Cleary said. Officials declined to say who was subpoenaed and did not disclose their next steps.

"At this time, we are monitoring developments and consulting with legal and ethical advisers to determine what to do," she said.

Michael Schiavo has waged a yearslong court battle with his parents-in-law, contending his 41-year-old wife, who has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990, would not want to live that way.

Courts have cleared the way for him to remove her feeding tube as early as 1 p.m. Friday. The tube has been removed twice in the past and then reinserted as the battle continued.

"It is a contempt of Congress to prevent or discourage someone from following the subpoena that's been issued," David Gibbs, the attorney for her parents, said. "What the U.S. Congress is saying is, `We want to see Terri Schiavo.'"

"The family is prayerfully excited about their daughter going before the United States Congress for the whole world to see how alive she is."

He said that despite her brain damage, she would be able to travel. A statement from the office of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., on Friday said the purpose of the hearing was to review health care policies and practices relevant to the care of non-ambulatory people.

Frist's statement noted that it is a federal crime to harm or obstruct a person called to testify before Congress.

hey Chevy,

took me 2 minutes to google this. read and go back to your loving your idiot king george.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46505-2005Mar18.html
"The removal came after a dramatic sequence of legal feints that began Friday morning when the House Government Reform Committee issued subpoenas to Schiavo, a woman who has been unable to speak for 15 years; her husband, Michael Schiavo; and several doctors and employees of her hospice, ordering them to appear at a congressional hearing March 25."

Oh Chevy, just in case you haven't figured it out yet, she won't be testifying.

Isn't there a Blog site where the less than informed can go play?

Chevy, try the following site: www.shootoffyourmouthandshowyourstupidity.com.

Terence, just for your information if you don't know already, Chevy is our very own Right-wing idiot troll. It's best to ignore him. He usually just posts lies and then disappears until he has another lie to give us as a gift. If asked to back up a lie, he usually disappears for two or three weeks, or until he thinks you have forgotten.

Judith,

"I'm not the enemy, but some members of our party are."

God bless the Deaniac anthem. Hysteria and malice and hate in the service of the left are perfectly fine, but if it's ever directed at the left it's misplaced and uncalled for.

Get a spine.

Elbow, you are obviously on the wrong Blog site. There is hardly a poster here, at one time or another, who hasn't vented anger, revenge or frustration with the Democrats. You need to find a site where talking against Democrats is not tolerated. Talk about not being in the real world. Who in the hell is going to hold their feet to the fire if not us?

So, let's make sure I have this correct. We should never critize or call into question a Democrat? You know what, I am finished discussing this. You go right ahead and bury your head in the sand, and support all Democrats, bad and good. I will go ahead and critize anyone I damn well choose.

thanks for the comic relief, chevy!

One last thought. You want to see anger on this Blog site. Go read what people said under the Bankuptcy Bill article on this site about Democrats. You will find that human beings get very upset when they feel they have been betrayed, whether they be betrayed by Republicans or Democrats.

Judith,

"There is hardly a poster here, at one time or another, who hasn't vented anger, revenge or frustration with the Democrats."

No kidding.

"Who in the hell is going to hold their feet to the fire if not us?"

Jesus, that's from right out of 2004. Joe Trippi would love you for that.

"We should never critize or call into question a Democrat?"

I don't care if you criticize Dems. Knock yourself out. But if you're spending as much time criticizing Dems when they have almost no power in Washington, or you're equating Dems with neocons, or Bush, or Delay, then I think you have your head up your ass.

Go ahead and reserve the right to complain endlessly and ineffectively about the lesser of two evils. Go ahead and hate the middle more than you do the far right that is destroying this country. In the end you'll have just what we have now, but at least you'll feel good about yourself.

And that's really what it's all about, isn't it?

I don't remember calling the Democrats neocons, as you say I did. That's not a word that even enters my mind when thinking of Democrats. I have never said I hated the middle or any Democrat. What I have said is that there are Democrats who are voting with the Republicans on issues that everyone on this site disagrees with, not just me. Does that upset me, you betcha.

What I have decided is that you are a troll. Discussing things with you is as meaningless as discussing things with our resident trolls Chevy and Toby. I'm not sure why you singled me out for your attack this morning (although I have an idea or two). I don't know you, and I did not attack you. However, you had no problem in making it personal right from the beginning. Here is where this all started this morning:

Elbow: "Thank you for always hating the Dems even as you hate the Republican leadership that is LEADING this country down a hole. God forbid you should ever stop reminding the Dems that self-loathing is the cornerstone of the angry-left philosophy."

My Response to our Post:
We will stop when Democrats stop acting and reacting like Republicans.

Posted by at March 19, 2005 07:09 AM

Now why you got so worked up over that response is beyond me. I suggest that you seek help immediately, because anyone with that kind of hatred and anger should be in analysis. End of my communcations with you.

Hey Larre. This was your article that started this discussion with Elbow this morning:

The Thugs of Congress
"This week we witnessed William Frist, Tom Delay, and not a few Democrats as well, stooping to new depths as they kicked the virtually lifeless body of Terri Schiavo around Congress for personal political gain."

In the future, please send all nasty comments to Larre and not me. : ) Also, evidently some people would like to censor what is said on this post. For those who do not like comments posted here, I have a suggestion, but it's not very Christian.

Judith,

"What I have decided is that you are a troll."

Ah, the last refuge of an ideologue. Yes, far better to dismiss the opposition as invalid than to consider their point of view - or your own.

You must have been great on the Dean blog.

Hey, Macarooni Head,

Your pov is way off base. In fact, you're wrong.

Judith expressed some disgust at Democrats who voted for this fascist move by delay and frist. Why, you ask?

Because when Democrats vote for garbage like this they undermine their own party. They give scum like delay the cover to call it BIPARTISAN, which drags the Democrats down to their level, which confuses Americans, Americans that don't pay attention or spend as much time or are on vacation or uninformed or have more things to do or whatever the reason, and makes it harder or impossible for the Democrats who are acting democratically and responsibly to do the right thing. That's what pisses people like Judith and myself off.

Every time a Democrat votes for or with bushco, it's another cut inflicted on the Constitution. And until the Democratic leadership gets their shit together, and their party, we will continue to put whatever pressure on them we can to keep them honest, or in line.

Let me get this right, Elbow. You're cheesed at Judith for thinking we can find those who support citizens over corporations. You even made a statement that it's in some fashion ignorant, or at least damaging to the party, to think this can happen.

God forbid you should ever stop reminding the Dems that self-loathing is the cornerstone of the angry-left philosophy.

I'm not sure where you get this either. If calling for elected officials to act in the public interest, and holding those dems in the party accountable when they fail to act in that interest is the cornerstone of the angry left philosophy, I think I'll take another large helping of angry left.

You really should check your affiliation. You sound like a neo-con fucking around as a dem. The party leaders you name, the tone of your argument, and not wanting negative things said about dems supporting republi-con legislation all add up to you being a "Rush-the-Lush" listener. Are Han-jobity and "Lionel" Coulter some of your faves?

Terence

Thanks for clearing that up. Terry was not supeonaed to "Testify" as Larre's post incorrectly stated which is what my post was predicated on. Only to be followed by needless, name-calling attacks by those like Judy showing off their ignorance.
I thank you for your honesty. That's a rare thing around here.
Chevy

Chevy, thought you would be interested in the definition of ignorance, since they all seem to apply to you.

1 a : destitute of knowledge or education ; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence
2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED
- ig·no·rant·ly adverb
- ig·no·rant·ness noun
synonyms IGNORANT, ILLITERATE, UNLETTERED, UNTUTORED, UNLEARNED mean not having knowledge. IGNORANT may imply a general condition or it may apply to lack of knowledge or awareness of a particular thing . ILLITERATE applies to either an absolute or a relative inability to read and write . UNLETTERED implies ignorance of the knowledge gained by reading . UNTUTORED may imply lack of schooling in the arts and ways of civilization . UNLEARNED suggests ignorance of advanced subjects .

Here's how I see you: Low IQ without the ability to rationalize or intellectualize on an given subject. Understands primal needs for food, water, shelter, and sex, but beyond those needs, the brain is not fully developed enough to integrate knowledge or critical thinking.