Care to quantify just how much damage we've done by pointing out that uranium hexafluoride from North Korea wound up in Libya? Is that supposed to be a surprise to someone? If our partners in the sexpartite talks don't already know that North Korea is a nuclear-proliferating timebomb, is this somehow going to give them pause? Be serious. This is a nothing story, even if you're offended that Bush is covering for Musharraf's (very probable) tacit approval of the A.Q. Khan sales.

Lead story (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,druck-347436,00.html) on Spiegel earlier today, with headline: US Mislead Allies With Tricks Against North Korea.

your resident troll, with all the talking points.
its enough to get deceived major and its annoying to have the rapid response troll there to defend the incompetence and general hubris.
oh well, maybe we could pull his feeding tube out in the name of jeebus.

This is a nothing story

Oh blinding light! Oh light that blinds! I cannot see, look out for me!

(Apologies to Proctor and Bergman)

Toby, if you see no problem with lying to the other members of the multi-party talks and then asking these nations to accept what we say about North Korea as factual in the future when we try and convince them to take strong action against Pyongyang, when our credibility has been reduced to that of North Korea, then you should be the one to get serious.

You can't explain away these deceptions forever as standard operating procedure at this level just because your guys are doing the lying. If the Clinton team had been caught lying this much to allies on the world stage, you and your ilk would be the first to be screaming about it, and you know it. So cut the crap here.

We're not going to agree here, but it does point out to me the double standard you employ, to your detriment.

Who is this Putzold character anyway?

So once again we find out that our glorious government has lied about something that will undoubtedly come back to haunt us. When will the people of this country see the light and demand the impeachment of all the current administration?

Steve, when did Pakistan sell that stuff to Libya?

For whatever reason (that no one here wants to acknowledge), Libya's WMD program has been shut down. And Khan has been exposed and marginalized. I have little doubt that Musharraf knew what Khan was up to, but the bottom line now is that we have brought Musharraf to our side as much as anyone could have ever expected. That is a great accomplishment for Bush.

If Bush lied about this particular sale and tried to hang it around Kim's neck, who cares? Is it supposed to make Kim less culpable? Because that's basically the point you're left with.

I just saw this featured on blogtemps.com

pretty cool thoughts.

If Bush lied about this particular sale and tried to hang it around Kim's neck, who cares?

Well, China cares. And of course North Korea. And probably every other country on Earth. Americans probably don't care much, but that's because we're all fat and stupid like Toby.

If Bush lied...Not if ....

Bush lied, Bush lies, and no doubt Bush will lie in the future.

Maybe we can all invent a new phrase: "to bush" = "to lie." As in,"I just totally bushed him when I told him I wasn't fooling with his wife" etc. Or, "the president of the US bushed the whole world when he said Saddam had WMDs."

Lets see, Libya's what? WMD program? What WMD program. Was that where Hussein was getting his RPV bombers, from Libya?

AG Khan has been what? Marginalized? After the barn door was re-hung?

IF?

Dude, put the bong down and step away from the table.

Let's see, face is something of importance in the Asian world, I believe, as it is elsewhere, I'd venture. And subtlety, that's one of the Chinese's best negotiating postures. And since China is desparate for oil, and we think our puny little army in Iraq is going to keep them from it, and the fact that bush has buggered the stability of the Korean peninsula, I'm seeing that China might not be particularly cooperative of whatever bushco wants them to do, why I'd go so far as to say that the recent "threat" towards Taiwan is a response to bush's stupidity vis a vis North Korea,

The fact that Pakistan, our "ally," has sold nuclear materials to places like Iran indicates that bush has done no reeling in of Musharaff at all, to wit, AG Khan's "house arrest" or whatever they call it, that gentle slap on the wrist, the fact that OBL, remember him, is alive and well and living in Pakistan, tells me that Musharaff will do whatever he chooses to do, just as China will do as it chooses, and we will be powerless to do any goddamned thing about it.

China took the measure of bush with the P-3 incident, and found him lacking, found him trivial, found him just as Molly describes him, All Hat, No GD Cattle. His stupid lies about Korea selling nuclear materials to renegades is so laughable and weak, the move of a Free Cell player taking on a Chess Grand Master, that surely China knows that the U.S.' input in this deadly serious matter is of little value, and carries no weight.

Who cares indeed.

Without question, this is the most incompetent administration in living memory. No wonder China felt it could get away with it's recent statement on Taiwan.

Brian, you could also expand the 'to-Bush=to lie' to perhaps include 'to bungle' or 'to spectacularly mismanage'.

Without question, this is the most incompetent administration in living memory.

Stop, weinerdog43. Your bush'n me.

It is the most spectacularly incompetent administration in United States history.

We might want to reconsider the CW that Pakistan is really our ally...

Toby, Saddam and Osama where on our side at one time also.

Is there anything, ANYTHING, that this bunch of incompetent criminal can't screw up? Anything????

Remember, a lot of the things that we view as "screwed up" are not actually screwed up if you view them through the greed tinted glasses that bushco uses.

Their screw ups aren't screw ups if you're not interested in achieving "good" government.

And they are not interested in that, and until the Dems figure this out they will continue to get snookered and played and buggered.

Yup, Duckman GR, you are right. With the Rethugs and neo-cons it's all about $$$$. Follow the money trail, as the old saying goes.

So now our "moral" president is known as
an incompetent liar all around the world.

I'm just bursting with pride.