I actually prefer "crossing the Rubicon" or "jumping the shark" to "tipping point."

The new poll found the largest drop for Bush came among men, self-described conservatives and churchgoers.

Translated: Bush's base is finally starting to get a clue.

So what? He is still president for four more years.

Even if OPEC opens the spigots for him, which I expect them to do now to bail him out, will gas prices fall far enough during the summer to brighten consumers’ moods?

My understanding is that the taps are already opened fully. We're competing against greater international demand than we used to, and the SUVs aren't helping. Don't be surprised to see gas above $2.50 over the summer.

Not much mention of what seems the interminable appeals available to the Schindlers in all of this. I go to bed at night after reading or hearing their options are exhausted, kaput, done. The next morning a new appeal to some new judicial entity is afoot. That night after failure in said venue options are again totally, completely spent. Again the next morn a new tact is attempted, a new judge or official beseeched, a new and apparently legitimate window open. Soak, rinse, repeat again. Is there truly no end to it all and if not why doesn't the MSM knock off all the "It's really over and done now" headlines?

Gallup published their party ID numbers thanks to Mystery polster, Chris Bowers, Steve Soto and others who kept on them about the issue.

Party ID, as you point out, doesn't explain everything, but we need to see the numbers so we can interpret the results.

What is interesting to me in this is hearing people like Randall Terry talk about how the Republicans have abandoned the Religious Right. And then hearing how successful the Religious Right is in fundraising off the Terri Schiavo episode.

They could splinter off from the GOP and nominate some really radical candidate in 2008 who will most likely fail. Or the GOP will heed the warning and switch their rhetoric to a stronger theocratic message so that they can capitalize on the Schiavo cash for midterm elections.

So what? He is still president for four more years.

I'm sure more than a few people said that about Nixon too.

"So what? He is still president for four more years.

I'm sure more than a few people said that about Nixon too."

**************

Two major differences between now and then...

(1) Democratically controlled congress.

(2) Nixon was smart and ambitious...

I suppose if Shrub spent more time in Washington... and less down at Crawford, he too could dream up something cleaver enough to get himself impeached... but it would have to be bad enough that a GOP controlled HOR would initiate... that is asking a lot from him. He'd need help from daddy's friends to get that done.

Bush dream up something clever? Tell me that was ironic.

One reason people probably feel the economy is bad, and maybe worse than the 1930's, is that they can't get the ring tones they want for their cellphones. Heck, the commercials say you can get Eric Clapton. But that totally depends on your provider. Why won't Bush and the GOP congress step in and do something so ordinary Americans can get ring tones?

The other reason, is that people probably are fed up with their neighbors parking their 3rd and 4th cars on the street or in the driveway. Bush really messed up. If folks had houses with 4-car garages instead of 2 or 3-car garages, this country would be in better shape instead of mired in a 30's style depression.

Finaly, what I'm hearing from the downtrodden, is that when you're spending $80 a month on your cable or satellite bill, you get like 5 channels of HBO that have roughly the same stuff on them. Why can't you order a la carte? I mean, people are suffering here. You should be able to get like just one HBO channel, and then add in one Showtime or Encore as you like. Rather than being oppressed by the cable providers into buying packages for $10 a month extra, that include channels that you probably don't even want.

It's just miserable out there. None of these kinds of things would be happening with a President John Kerry. He had a plan.

muckdog,

You don't need to use such blatant sarcasm to show us that you have absolutely no interest in aiding the less fortunate in this country if it's going to mean a little less for you.

But you flippancy is mighty revealing.

Except for condemning the Fundamentalist overreaction and general displays of nuttiness to come, this will be my last word on the Schiavo Case.

Holy CRAP Toby!!! If that is YOUR post that you have linked to above, I must say I am EXTREMELY impressed!! I mean that wholeheartedly and with sincere honesty.

I have to say, that most of the time, (say, 97% of the time,) anything and everything you post here sickens and enrages me, and I want to reach through that Ethernet line, grab you by the throat and choke the ever-living life out of you, or at least shake you like a rag doll until you see some semblance of reason and/or see the absolute IDIOCY in what you are usually defending.

Having said that, (and I'm sure that was probably obvious- seeing as you MUST know what most of us here think of you in general,) I am sincerely and utterly SHOCKED to hear you say the things you said in your post. Completely floored.

For once, I am proud to say that I stand with you, even beside you, if you'd permit it, (and that would be a good thing for you, as I'm 6'5", 250 and an ex-military football-player type :) And I'm VERY proud to say, welcome to the arena of the enlightened!!! It's about TIME you saw them for what they truly are my friend- welcome, as you always have been here, even though we nearly always disagree with you here, you have provided us with raucous entertainment and debate.

I implore ALL OF YOU here to read Toby's post- it's enlightening as hell!!!

ENJOY!! And once again, welcome Toby- stay tuned!! (~8

Actually this is kind of scary if the numbers get much worse . Who the hell knows the depths these folk will stoop to so as to change the topic , the polls and to advance thier agenda .

Now, if only muckdog and Chevy would come around as well- we'd be one happy family!! Hehe!!

On second thought, who- other than that vile slug bendito- would then provide us with the "raucous entertainment and debate" in my aformentioned post...?

Hmmmmmmmmmm........

Happy Easter everybody! (~8

I did not pay Marty to say that.

But thank you for your enthusiastic response, sir.

It isn't just the rarified atmosphere of this particular weekend for so many that makes this case what it is. It isn't even Big Media who's responsible for this. Something very wrong has happened with the leadership of this country ---and we all know it.

It is not my purpose, beyond observing the incidental curiosity of its effects, to ingratiate myself with people I disagree with. But I hope that my comments here from the past several days serve to demonstrate the absolute need for intellectual honesty in all our debates.

toby:But I hope that my comments here from the past several days serve to demonstrate the absolute need for intellectual honesty in all our debates.

couldn't agree more. even with the most vehement disagreements and our funny/enraging flippant remarks, when it comes down to it we're all in this big mess together. we're not a perfect union, we're a more perfect union, still struggling for that perfection.

on a different note, as steve mentioned above it baffles me how many and with what expediency they are able to get new judges in new courts to hear the case. i don't necessarily know the full background to the family, but they appear upper middle class at best, with likely no political connections.

i think anyone who is currently waiting out the courts for a trial date (myself included) should demand equal treatment. i mean after all, fair is fair. if the masses can be whipped into a frenzy this quickly, then we're really doomed.

I'm not impressed at all Toby. Now you're just picking fights with the people you used to agree with. You need help.

king george and Co has not follow any international law and start an illegal war. He technically is guilty of war crimes against humanity.
All those questions were discuss on C-span

Speakers Naomi Klein, journalist and author, Phyllis Bennis from the Institute for Policy Studies, Anas Shallal from Iraqi Americans for Peaceful Alternatives, Michael Hoffman from Iraq Veterans Against the War, and others talk about "National Teach-In on Iraq: How Can We End This War?"
3/25/2005: WASHINGTON, DC: 2 hr.

Instit, for policy studies, “National teach-in on Iraq; Can we end this War?

Ring tones for the masses!

Something very wrong has happened with the leadership of this country ---and we all know it.

Toby

Yea, they were fraudulently re-elected for one...! (~8

And you're welcome, sir. No compensation needed- other than you taking a crow bar and finally prying open your mind about the fuckholes in the WH and a majority of the Senate/House.

Try not to be so much of a dickhead- K? (~8 You're comments of late HAVE served you fairly well imho. We can use your input and intellect, because you obviously have a pretty good one; it just seems that most of the time (in the past) it's been focused on defending said fuckholes and their asinine policies.

************************

Oh and muckdog? Get a fucking clue, will you??

Welcome to the light Toby.

I'm not impressed at all Toby. Now you're just picking fights with the people you used to agree with. You need help.

Brain Bell

Oh back off Brian. Toby's fine- at least he's picking the good fight this time. How often have I seen YOU out here defending what you believed even though EVERYONE on the god damn page was refuting you and trying to slap you down?? Lets try, Never. How many times have I seen Toby do this, (to my chagrin and frustration?) More than I or he probably care to count. At least he's got balls and a focused head on his shoulders...

As one who loves historical parallels I'm begining to think that maybe Terri's case is to our times as 1692 was to Salem. That is to say, it looks like America 'gets it' on this one and the theocrats have gone too far.

For those who still need it spelled out here goes: This government has no reservations about dictating the most personal and private decisions
you and your family ,God forbid, may ever have to face.

Now people must understand that this is not a fluke or one time mistake. This is the standard operating procedure for the Bushites, who worship the twin gods of money and power.

Kudos, Toby. This is a sad time for everyone. I hope it gets no worse.

...as in witch hunt. I'd be all right with Bush and Friends falling off the cliff...

Marty said:
How often have I seen YOU out here defending what you believed even though EVERYONE on the god damn page was refuting you and trying to slap you down?? Lets try, Never.

Marty, you are absolutely correct on that last point -- never. If I was so unwelcome, I'd leave. That would be the normal, healthy human reaction, particularly in "cyberspace" where the barriers to "movement" are so nearly non-existent. Once in a while sticking to principles in the face of adversity is very healthy. To go around to "boards" to collect insults and abuse, for no real purpose other than to be insulted, that's just not healthy to wallow around inviting hurt like that. It's positively sadomasochistic, truly so. Not some kinky thing, but a genuine expression and cry for abuse.

How many times have I seen Toby do this, (to my chagrin and frustration?) More than I or he probably care to count.

Exactly, Marty. This IS what I am saying.

I used to get into with Toby on occassion, more than most I think. The last time I did, it finally dawned on me that I was not dealing with a well person. I'm not going to suddenly leap up and praise Toby for switching sides on some issue. Toby needs help.

Since the last time I got into it with Toby, maybe a month ago or so, I have intentionally refrained from getting into it with him, again. I only posted now as his tune seemed to change a bit here. Maybe he's more willing to listen. What I said was succinct, to the point, and I intentionally avoided calling him any names. I figured that would get his attention more than rambling.

Am I pleased Toby is on the side of the general consensus around here? Hey, if Toby now wants to feel a little positive reinforcement, so be it.

Kudos, Toby!

But, you, Toby, still need help, really.

You want to sing his praises, Marty, go ahead. But ask yourself, which one of us is actually showing more concern for Toby as a person? I don't need Toby's voice added to the left, or perhaps more accurately non-right wing, but as a fellow human being, I would like Toby to go consult with a professional.

This doesn't mean Toby is sick or crazy. Sometimes human beings simply have emotional problems and psychic pain in dealing with others. There are good people out there who can help with that.

(and that would be a good thing for you, as I'm 6'5", 250 and an ex-military football-player type

Hey, the administration needs a new reporter on the payroll. Is your head shaved? I joke, I joke!

Something very wrong has happened with the leadership of this country ---and we all know it.

WE have known it and spoken about it for some time. YOU have called us traitors for our comments on a number of occiassions. I no more believe there is any truth to your words than you can pull a winged flying elephant out of your ass.

Brian,

A very interesting and well thought out point. Thank you.

I have often wondered aloud here on these boards, why are they here? Especially well spoken and obviously educated people such as Toby.

It perplexed me: do they enjoy the abuse? Or do they get some kind of morbid satisfaction out of thinking they are spiritually or morally superior to all the 'cretin they see here spouting their drivel,' and to argue VEHEMENTLY with said cretin when the facts are so easy to verify? We are, after all, the "reality faction," and fairly miniscule amounts of research validate most of what we discuss here- apart from glaring opinion or rants, of course.

Perhaps I jumped out of enthusiasm for one I had always seen with much distain. And to see a kind of silver lining in the absolute devastation that has been wrought on all of us. To see one such as Toby stand up and say, "you know what, these fuckers are evil, twisted, and they should and WILL go down in flames, and I'm ashamed to ever say that I agreed or was associated with them."

It sounded to me as if Toby had done the proverbial: "seen the error of his ways." I may be very wrong, and in reading some of the posts on his site, that appears to be the case- my bad.

Apologies for overreactions and unintended insults people. (~8

I have read Toby's posts for close to a year now and the reactions therein. I don't think Toby is sick, he takes opposing positions to encourage strong debate, some people might call this flaming a thread. Many times he is wrong, but that's ok. Some people have begged Steve Soto to kick him off the site, but to Steve's credit, he never has, which I believe displays Mr. Soto's fundamental belief in free speech. I think Toby has a great respect for Steve, the other posters and commenters on this site because of that. All of this is the main reason I come to this site and the reason I believe Toby comes here. This site is not like Dkos or some other sites. There's an actual debate here. It would be a shame to kick off Toby, agree with him or not.

BTW, Toby was one of the first commenters to wish Mr. Soto a happy birthday greeting on the anniversary of this blog.

I am also impressed with the clarity and conviction with which Toby kicked the party he associates with. While I wish there were more principled Republicans to oppose Bush's other misadventures over the last four years, but it is heartening to see so many Republicans recoiling when their party is so obviously diving headlong into sheer insanity.

I appreciate the kind words from many of you ---and am amused at the silly-assed pop-psychologizing of others--- but I really did want to demonstrate the value of conscience that each of us has in the face of the truth and before the eyes of our opponents.

That means I don't renounce my other beliefs. If I did that, I wouldn't deserve your respect.

And if I weren't an argumentative asshole, there'd be no whetstone here for you to sharpen your knives with. But remember what Paul said: PROS KENTRA MAY LAKTIDZE.

This is a very fine blog and I'm straight on its principles. Thanks for your indulgences and your hatred: I live on both.

Muckdog:

It's just miserable out there. None of these kinds of things would be happening with a President John Kerry. He had a plan.

Riffy, baby. Good stuff.

I respect anyone who can stand up and say "I was wrong on an issue or I don't agree with my Party" regardless of their stance on other issues.

However, I have asked for the removal of Roof & Co., because their intentions on this Blog is to disrupt. We don't need people who are not interested in substance, have nothing of value to offer, and depend more upon lies than telling the truth.

Thanks for your indulgences and your hatred: I live on both.

And thanks for making up "facts" on your own blog and reporting them as reputable facts on this blog. A neo-con liar is a neo-con liar, and you are a neo-con liar. You will never have a standing with me, regardless of your contrition or mea culpa. You are among the worst example of what passes for an 'American' these days.

Thanks for your indulgences and your hatred: I live on both.

Thriving on negative attention and hatred...sorry imo something just isn't right when someone says that. Brian I tend to agree with you in many respects as I too have been here a long time and have read many of his posts and words and have tangled with him on many occasions. After a while I too wondered and silently questioned the motives as to why he posts here and have at times openly suspected a deep almost "sick" pleasure he gets from playing mind games with many of the commenters here. You just confirmed the worst case and yes imo perverse motives for why you come here and "interact" with us. Sorry something is just plain wrong with those reasons Toby.... Wow...just Wow, at least you have finally openly admitted it.