Well, if you're going to nominate Hillary in 2008, you might as well start planning for the 2012 campaign against an incumbant GOP president.

even muckdog's right twice a day.

Muckdog,

I would not count on getting a GOP President in 2008. You guys have screwed up everything so badly -- the economy, consumer rights, foreign relations and now the Constitution -- that even the Stepford crowds are beginning to notice that the Emperor has no clothes! Even stupid people have their limits.

You can fool some people all of the time and all people some of the time; but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

Jonathan.

jonathan, you may be right, but let's not tempt fate by doing something stupid like nominating hillary, hm?

apparently the poll you cite has forgotten that simply having higher poll numbers, gad, even getting more votes, does not guarantee a win for Democrat candidates. As long as the GOP Media allows voter fraud and outright vote manipulation, the %'s mean nothing. Besides it is the Senate and House that matter, not Hillary and Jeb, and we can give that a shot in 06.

You know what this means -- RED ALERT!!! RED ALERT!!! RED ALERT!!!

Maybe this explains why BushCo is selling nuclear capable F-16's to Pakistan -- the nuclear power that engineered the 9/11 attacks.

Maybe. I can't help but think Jeb would be helped in 2008 by the Swift Boat Vets "Wanting To Expose Hillary As A Bull-Dyke Lesbian Lying Whore Communist Pedophile That Secretly Has A Penis And Wants To Destroy All We Hold Dear" Committe To Save America.

Hillary in 08 would be throwing red meat to the feral Cons/wingnut dogs, but maybe we should do that anyway, if we still have a chance to do so.

I'm wondering if there is any person who could survive a calculated campaign of lies, and distortion, aided by cable media that feed on sensationalism and broadcast known lies and non-facts.

On the other hand, this may just be an unnecessary exercise in speculation on 08 prospects, since it isn't entirely clear we will have a republic under the current Constitution by then. Current trends suggest three more years of this may just unravel the rule of law and democratic governance enough that 'elections' may look more like Putin's election recently, or Saddam Hussein's election some time ago.

I watched the TV and read media coverage as a child of the McCarthy era - this is a truly far, far more dangerous threat to our liberties, and I see it getting worse rather than better.

I've checked the distance from Portland to Vancouver BC, and I keep the car fuel topped up.

Steve,

I've been saying that's the race from day 1. Wow, we finally agree on something. Jeb however has not shown his hand and continues to state he is not running and i'm starting to believe him. On the other hand Hillary has shown her intentions by moving to the right. If Jeb does run he beats the carpetbagger (i don't bake cookies mom) hands down. It's a no brainer. Her past will kill her.
Chevy

Uh, her moving to the right will kill her.

DEMS Suck it up!! Unless a miracle happens Hillary is your nominee. If Jeb doesn't run Condi Rice would be the most likely choice. If neither of those two don't run the GOP are in trouble. Condi is the best choice. Female version of King George, she wont lose the conservative base and her strongest point is DEMS can't accuse her of being racists towards blacks and the NAACP hands are tied. She will brake the stronghold DEMS have on the black vote. Her presence as a leader are formiddable. Her knowledge on foreign affairs are 2nd to none, speaks several languages, earned her Phd in Russian affairs. She's accomplished more in two months then powell did in 4 years. Last but not least she's easy on the eyes and a rising super star.
Chevy

For the moment, let's set aside the who-can-beat-who meme.

What I'm sick of is the media drumbeat. Let's face it: Corporate Media nominates the candidates, and it has preordained Hillary Clinton the Democratic nominee. THIS is the ultimate corruption of the Dem's nominating process, which is about the only thing the Republicans can't yet determine outright by blackbox voting and fraud.

Corporate media is the enemy of democracy and one way or another, it has to be stopped from choosing our candidates for us.

How can anyone know which Democrat might be nominated come 2008? Despite the Corporate Media's preference for Senaort Clinton (because it spikes the "horserace" meme with the good stuff), considerable opposition exists to the junior Senator from New York. One might imagine that the Democrats who worked on John Kerry's campaign in 2004 would be solid supporters for Senator Clinton but they would be dead wrong. From my conversations with many of those folks during the campaign I would estimate that less than 20% are solid supporters for Senator Clinton's Presidential aspirations and I spent most of my time in solid blue states. Her baggage makes anything Senator Kerry dragged into the campaign look like a feather by comparison.

Preordained schmeordained - like dean was the insiders' choice for the DNC. This isn't the cult on the other side of the aisle.

there's plenty of opposition to hillary, including among our sadly ubiqitous moneyed interests, even more so among dem rank and file. this thing hasn't started yet.

that being said - clark/durbin '08
hell yes, we want wes!

"Mario Cuomo 92!!!" Oh, I'm sorry, that's right, it is kind of hard to predict those nominees 3+ years in advance. Hilary wont be in it, IMO. Chevy, Jeb wont run, I believe him, although I'm not sure why I'd trust a Bush. Even the freeprs dont want him in 08. Condi?? hmm, an African American whose pro-choice and has never been married(the media's read: "Lesbian"). She wont run. The frontrunner right now is Frist IMO.

Three years of every talking head in America declaring her the nominee will affect the race whether you like it or not.

Underestimate the media at your own risk.

Underestimate the media at your own risk.

Excellent advice Arvin.

hillary will run..she's running now..and she will win...bill will be a co-president once again

Maybe we'll get lucky and both parties will have discredited themselves in 2008 to the point where a successful third party will be possible.

Chevy: Condi said in an interview that she "is mildly pro-choice." Tell me how she's going to get the nomination. Steve: it's "straitjacket"-- don't mean to be a dick about it.