You are correct, larre, Allison's article is excellent, and offers a very succinct examination of the current moral climate within which we in the United States live. I too wonder when the mainstream religious moderates will again frame the moral debate. These fundamentalist extremists have been getting on my nerves for a long time, and they're so loud they've co-opted all the media attention.
Posted by phidipides at March 27, 2005 07:02 AMExcellent article Larre. What the main stream churches need to understand, is that these religious zealots will not spare them either if they gain total control of this Country.
I am once again outraged at Lieberman, who on MTP thinks that Congress had the right and duty to interfere in the Schiavo case. When a Democrat is on a political show, and I see Republicans shaking their head in the affirmative at what they are saying, I know that person is betraying their Party.
Terry Randall, who has been very quiet during this scandal, came out yesterday madder than hell. He has just discovered that the far-Right religious zealots and pro-lifers may have been used to put this president in the WH. Really Terry, what was your first clue. He also shot a warning to this Administration and fellow Republicans that there would be hell to pay. Go Terry Go!
Posted by Judith at March 27, 2005 07:19 AMPart of the problem with the mainline churches is that their ranks are facing a crisis not of faith, exactly, but of expressing their faith. Because the modern faithful accept the duality of world (its material and spiritual aspects) and modern biblical scholarship challenges traditional understanding of scripture, formulating a new way to speak about Christ has been difficult for the layman. And also difficult for the clergy vis a vis clarifying these issues for the laity. (This has been my experience personally as I have done wide reading among scholars such as Elaine Pagels, Dominic Crossan, etc. I have formed an understanding of Christ that both makes sense and inspires me, and I can talk about it to other people who have been reading and searching, but I am at a loss how to express it to people whose religious concepts are still linked to a childhood faith.
Give you a personal example:
About a year ago the bible study group from my church teamed up with another church's bible study group to read Bishop John Shelby Spong's book on the future of the christian church. (Spong has done a series of books reinterpreting the work of the Jesus Seminar scholars.) A number of people expressed a sense of relief and enlightenment at the presentation of Jesus' humanity and mission that emanates from this scholarship and an anger that in the past they felt obliged to believe in a "fairytale" version of Jesus that they weren't comfortable with.
Now it just so happens that this other congregation's retired priest is now the associate priest of my church. He was the preacher on Transfiguration Sunday. He gave a wonderful sermon based on a painting that he and his wife bought. It was of a carousel horse that had broken away from the carousel and was running toward freedom. It was a wonderful sermon. Everyone thought so. I had a problem with it because of his prefacing remarks.
Introducing his sermon, he said that all of his pastoral life, he could not convey what his faith was really about and that transfiguration sunday was especially difficult for him because he could not believe in it literally but had to present it literally to his parishioners. But now, he said, he was going to talk about the transfiguration in the only way that made sense to him. Then followed the sermon about the carousel horse.
Now our bible study group had just finished the sessions with the other church and fresh in my mind was the anguish and anger of the parishioners at being treated like children. And so while I'm listening to this wonderful sermon (and taken by itself it was wonderful), I'm thinking, "You son-of-a-bitch, for twenty five years you didn't lead these people out of a wilderness, you led them into a fog!"
The truth of the matter is that the mainline churches don't have their act together. If they can't lead their own congregations into a mature understanding of their faith, they're not ready to deal with the zealots of the right.
Posted by Barbara at March 27, 2005 08:09 AMBarbara,
What is Transfiguration Sunday? Is that the same as Easter Sunday?
Posted by Chief at March 27, 2005 08:25 AMNo not Easter. The tranfiguration occurred when Jesus took some of his desciples to a mountain where they saw Jesus become "radiant" and was talking with Moses and Elijah.
Biblical passage below:
Matthew 17:1-6 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan
Matthew 17
The Transfiguration
1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters–one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.�
5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!�
6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified.
The S. P. Times' Robyn E. Blumner is one of the best.
Posted by ken melvin at March 27, 2005 09:02 AM" ... the St. Petersburg Times is not controlled by a mega media corporation." That explains why I find myself routinely checking Robyn Blumner's column for an on point analysis. She touches on this topic today as well.
Posted by CJ at March 27, 2005 09:03 AMSorry. Here's the link. It was somehow lost when I previewed.
Posted by CJ at March 27, 2005 09:05 AMI wonder why the very idea of keeping someone alive by force-feeding them with an artificial tube isn't itself a questionable practice within the Christian ethical framework? The Christian Scientists wouldn't permit such a thing- where is their voice in this issue?
Posted by swamp thing at March 27, 2005 09:11 AMFine read, CJ.
Posted by phidipides at March 27, 2005 09:14 AMThe mainline denominations' big problem is that they don't offer a radical alternative to modern reality. They are a way of living in the world.
The far-Right denominations, though, offer people a way to secede from reality--to live in a world that is essentially a pre-Rapture. It's not very complex, and I'm sure the certainty--and the emotional intensity--are pretty satisfying.
So, as society at large gets more secular, the mainline denominations are losing people on both ends. They lose people like me (a preacher's kid) to secularism; they lose people who crave a more extreme religious experience to the evangelical or fundamentalist churches.
Moderation doesn't sell.
Posted by Matt Davis at March 27, 2005 10:08 AMGood point Matt, which is very compellingly laid out in the book by Sam Harris titled The End of Faith - Religion Terror and the Future of Reason.
Please read this book and recommend it to everyone you know. It is a sobering commentary on the perils of fundamentalism and the consequences if left unchecked.
Lt's pt chrstn fc n mrdr, shll w? Hypcrtclly htlrn f th lft. By th sm twstd lgc, mkng ll f frc strv Mgb styl wld b th mrcfl rt.
[Editor: ignore=off]God, I wish somebody would put bendito on the thorazine he so desperately needs.
-- The Davis Prayer
Posted by Matt Davis at March 27, 2005 12:31 PMHas anyone seen the latest Los Angeles Time Article about Tom DeLay allowing his father (Brain damaged, without living will - sound similar??) to be disconnected from IV feeding and allowed to die? I wonder how he reconciles the two events?
Make your own decision...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-delay27mar27,0,5710023.story?coll=la-home-headlines
Posted by Bob at March 27, 2005 02:13 PMLet's put a christian face on murder, shall we?
I agree, bendito. It's sobering to put the face of the chimporer on the 100,000 or so dead civilian Iraqis. Glad you brought it up.
Hypocritically hitlerian of the left.
I concur. We are all a bunch of hypocrites for wanting this womans wishes carried out. We would be better off if we would just get behind keeping her alive against her wishes. And it does make me a hypocrite for saying pull the feeding tube, when I do indeed think the best policy in this instance would be to allow people to die a quick and painless death with an injection.
By the same twisted logic, making all of Africa starve Mugabe style would be the merciful route.
Good job of pointing out the idiot son's policies in Africa. Your forgot to mention how he wants to do the same thing in America. You also forgot to mention you're a racist fuck for thinking all Africans are brain dead.
Posted by phidipides at March 27, 2005 02:22 PMYou are right phidipides about not letting people die without pain. When medications stop working people die in agony. I guess that is call been Christian. Most country in Europe has an unspoken assistance when dying. Here they would be afraid to make you a drug addict!
As an ex catholic, I have always felt that this Pope has done nothing to bring is religion to the 20 century. Preaching to an overpopulated world birth control would have been a plus. I guess he prefer putting new life on earth to face dying by starvation. How many dies each minute?
Anyone else hear that DeLay pulled the plug on his father in the late 80's? There's your political traction.
Posted by phidipides at March 27, 2005 07:00 PMThat was Randall Terry. It was early, what can I say.
Posted by Judith at March 27, 2005 07:19 PMYes I saw it on Crooks and liars web site. I have only one word for Tom Delay! Hypocrite! He also sued the company responsible for the accident that ended with an undisclosed amount of money! I guess what is good for him, is not good for the rest of us!
“In 1990, the DeLays filed suit against Midcap Bearing Corp. of San Antonio and Lovejoy Inc. of Illinois, the distributor and maker of a coupling that the family said had failed and caused the tram to hurtle out of control….
I thought he push for TORT REFORM? Read all on La times
AL Times
If the DeLay story is true about his Father, we need to get it into the MSM. Let the far Right religious zealots chew on that piece of information for awhile.
A month ago when we took my Aunt off the respirator, we were assured that she would feel no pain in death. She had been on morphine, and once the decision was made to withdraw the respirator, the nurse increased the morphine to ensure there was no pain. Of course, eventually the morphine, as I understand it, surpresses the respiratory system. Death took four hours, and from all appearances she was in a deep sleep and not aware at the end. I suspect that hospitals do a lot more to help in the end than they really want the public to know. In the Schiavo case however, their hands are tied and can do nothing to help her because of the publicity. I suspect that they regret not having done something a long time ago the moment Michael Schiavo said to stop all nourishment. Now they can't.
Posted by Judith at March 27, 2005 08:22 PM
Judith, I agree with you. All those idiots are forcing this woman to end her vegetated state in pain, or are just lying for attention.
Same thing happen with my mother. As I could not be there, my sister was told that she will go peacefully, but that was in Europe.
FROM DKOS:
More than 16 years ago, far from the political passions that have defined the Schiavo controversy, the DeLay family endured its own wrenching end-of-life crisis. The man in a coma, kept alive by intravenous lines and a ventilator, was DeLay's father, Charles Ray DeLay.
Then, freshly re-elected to a third term in the House, DeLay waited all but helpless for the verdict of doctors.
Today, as House Majority Leader, DeLay has teamed with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to champion political intervention the Schaivo case. He pushed emergency legislation through congress to shift the legal case from Florida state courts to the federal judiciary.
And he is among the strongest advocates of keeping the woman, who doctors say has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, connected to her feeding tube. DeLay has denounced Schiavo's husband, as well as judges, for committing what he calls ''an act of barbarism`` in removing the tube.
In 1988, however, there was no such fiery rhetoric as the congressman quietly joined the sad family consensus to let his father die.
. . . When the man's kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connecting him to a dialysis machine. "Extraordinary measures to prolong life were not initiated," said his medical report, citing "agreement with the family's wishes." His bedside chart carried the instruction: "Do Not Resuscitate."
On Dec. 14, 1988, the senior DeLay "expired with his family in attendance."
Posted by Judith at March 27, 2005 08:55 PMSo DeLay let his Father die, by doing nothing to prolong his life. Isn't that interesting. Hey Randall Terry, you have been had. HAAAAAAAAHA.
Posted by Judith at March 27, 2005 09:04 PMNot Stupid: I am sure she did die peacefully. The staff at the hospital in Denver were absolutely wonderful, and seem to understand that life is precious even in death. They did not want her to suffer and informed us of every step in the journey after taking her off the respirator. We were told to bring a CD player and music into her room, if we so desired, and anything else that we thought would bring comfort to her and us. They turned off the sound of all equipment in the room, pulled the drape and closed the glass wall to ensure complete privacy. She died with dignity and with those who cared and loved her there.
What we have going on now is a circus side show. Come one, come all. Come see the lady who is dying.
Posted by Judith at March 27, 2005 09:19 PMWht sck lt, xltng vr th DLy's prsnl trgdy. Dffrnc s tht th fthr ws dyng, nd thy ptd nt t rtfclly xtnd hs lf. Trr Schv ws nt dyng ntl hr frcd strvtn ws nttd.
[Editor: ignore=off]FUNNY, I FOUND THE ST. PETERSBERG TIMES LATE SATURDAY NIGHT--AND I WAS REALLY IMPRESSED BY THE ARTICLES WRITTEN IN THE PERSPECTIVES SECTION. SO MANY BRILLIANT WRITERS. I WAS SENDING E MAILS WITH LINKS TO BUZZFLASH AND OTHER PEOPLE I COULD THINK OF. IT IS A WONDERFUL NEWSPAPER. I JUST SENT THIS EMAIL TO THEM.
i must tell you-i found the sp times on saturday-and was amazed at how wonderful it is. the perspectives section made my heart sing to hear actually honest opinions. i even looked up where st. petersberg was in florida, thinking if i ever moved from los angeles, i would want to be where your paper is!! thanks for the bottom of my heart and lots of others. i sent some articles to www.buzzflash.com whish is a wonderful informative site. also, i just read this in the left coaster. keep up the wonderful work. http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/003996.php
Bendito,
Force feeding Terry Schiavo = artificially extending her life...why is that point so hard for people to understand.
The issue is that the right-wing, super-zealots feel that we as individuals do not have the right to make decisions concerning our own lives/deaths.
If heaven is such a great place, why not let Terry Schiavo go? If it is murder, then let her husband's conscience (as well as God) deal with that.
Posted by the professor at March 28, 2005 05:57 AMProfessor, as usual, Bendito missed the point, but thanks for trying to explain it to him/her. Note that in the DeLay case, Bendito calls it a "personal tragedy". Don't you just love selective morality.
Posted by Judith at March 28, 2005 09:03 AMThe St. Pete Times is excellent and is NOT run by a Media Corporation. I've visited the Poynter Institute and met both editors/writers for the SPT.
On that occasion, I also listened to one of the windbag Editors of The (Conservative) Tampa Tribune brag about his paper's responsibility to "change the world". While he didn't elaborate on the paper's specific agenda, he most certainly spelled out his disgust of those with the audacity to critique the media -- saying in no uncertain terms -- words to the effect of "We're not interested in hearing it, don't bother sending it to us." The tools of "change" are, however, quite evident on a day-to-day basis: (1) rabidly conservative commentary, (2) unapologetic election year ass kissing (the "non-endorsement" of Bush was really quite absurd after literally 2 years of uninterrupted Kerry-bashing), and (3) wildly biased Headlines and chopped up AP stories filled locally-written biased context. They are a Corporate darling.
From commerical perspective, the Times generates a fraction of the revenues the Tribune garners -- thanks to Corporate punishment/support of their ideals. Let us hope the Times can continue its efforts. I sometimes wonder, just as I fear for the continued existence of WMNF 88.5, the local NPR/independent affiliate.
Posted by Tampa Student at March 29, 2005 07:34 PM