If the U.S. had won the First Mexican War, all this would be a mute point since the people there would all be citizens anyway.
It is so ironic and yet predictable that in the name of keeping terrorists out of this country, we actually have people praising (!!!) a homegrown terrorist group perched near our border for the express purpose of accosting anyone who looks mexican.
But leave it to Bay Buchanan, (who if you watch her for over 10 minutes gives you the impression that her hair coloring is doing something tragic to her brain) to defend the Minutemen.
The anti-Mexican ferver is running high in this country, which figures, because if you call them what they really are, indians, one of the tribes of Native Americans who are contained within the largest reservation in the Americas, then our Manifest Destiny needs to be protected by making sure they dont slip across the border.
Is there a open borders problem? Definitely, and the people that it hurts the worst are the ones that are brought across the border as slaves of one sort or another. Just addressing that problem would significantly reduce the numbers of undocumented in this country. So President Bush, arrest the real identified terrorists down in Arizona, the Minutemen Group, and find a way to secure the borders from the onslaught of thousands of slaves for commerce and sex being brought into this country.

I remember when the Government considered the Minutemen a subversive group who had to remain under ground. Now they can take to the boarders of our Country and take the law into their own hands. F-ing unbelievable. This is a story that will unfold with people being killed, and they won't be American.

Again I say that this story is chilling. What the hell is wrong with this Country.

What would a second war with Mexico do to the prices of a 2-item combo at Chevy's? Would this cause inflation?

2nd Mexican war? Haven't we invaded them about a dozen times?

I do think that illegal immigrants deserve *some* blame for their condition; I don't think they're just innocent pawns.

That said, I think that militias like these are a dangerous mistake, that employers should be prosecuted for hiring illegal labor, and that Bush and Fox have dropped the ball far too many times. Not that I have much faith a Democrat would fix the border problem.

What would a second war with Mexico do to the prices of a 2-item combo at Chevy's? Would this cause inflation?

Bye, bye miss america pie
Drove my chevy to the levy but the levy was dry

don mcclean is not me

In re to Scarred, I agree with most of what you state. Except your opening statement. Surely you're not saying that the 13 and 14 year old girls brought in as prisoners to this country for the slave trade are less than innocent pawns, right?
And there are many others who came to this country as complete innocents. As little babies with no choice in the matter.
I have a good friend, born in Mexico, who's parents were killed when she was 4 years old. Her grandmother lived in California, legally. Her uncles brought her to California, and ever since her grandmother died, she has tried to become documented. She now has a husband and 5 girls who are all citizens. She and her family have paid taxes and never collected any benefits of any kind. But due to the circuitous laws in this country, she has been cheated out of thousands of dollars by lawyers,
attempting to get documented, because the lawyers know her family can never complain because of fear. How are people like this less than innocent?
Multiply her by many thousands and you'll understand that a big part of the problem is our immigration laws and the legal system in general.

"In re to Scarred, I agree with most of what you state. Except your opening statement. Surely you're not saying that the 13 and 14 year old girls brought in as prisoners to this country for the slave trade are less than innocent pawns, right?
And there are many others who came to this country as complete innocents. As little babies with no choice in the matter. "

You're right, there. I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement. It's people who purposely come across the boarder, paying coyotes and living in the shadows, knowing they aren't supposed to be in this country without legal documents, who have little sympathy from me.

I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement. It's people who purposely come across the boarder, paying coyotes and living in the shadows, knowing they aren't supposed to be in this country without legal documents, who have little sympathy from me.

One estimate puts 750,000 children under the age of 13 illegaly in this country, picking the fruit and vegetables you eat. They probably wouldn't accept your sympathy. Maybe your kindness. Yes, maybe kindness.

I give it 3 weeks until one of these weekend warriors gets offed trying to prevent a drug and smuggling gang from carrying out their appointed duties. And yeah, I know Gilchrist claims MS-13 is a bunch of punks and half his Minutemen are combat vets. But combat vets with families and mortgages have a vastly different set of rules of engagement than some I-don't-give-a-fuck loco itching for another teardrop tattoo.

Again I say that this story is chilling. What the hell is wrong with this Country.

Judith, What is wrong are the republi-cons, neo-cons and fundamentalists. God's love is hatred. Hatred is the new kindness. The strong protect the weak by taking from the weak. Taking from the weak and giving to the rich is the new morality. It's Alice in Wonderland as a bad acid trip, and written as some perverse reality.

Well, just maybe those across the boarder like to feed their families or find a job that pays more than $20.00 a week.

Will someone explain to me why this is happening. I really don't understand how this Administration is allowing Minutemen to arm themselves and position themselves on our boarder. What is really going on here? Anyone.

I already posted this, but I am posting again in case anyone missed it.

by A.S. Medellin
While the Bush administration and conservative idiots continue to spread fear by working stories to the press about Mexican gangs and supposed Al Quaida terrorists entering by way of Mexico, therefore targeting anyone that looks Mexican or Latino, there is a new wave of self-annointed vigilantes who are supposedly guarding our borders--the "Minutemen."

The Minutemen are a group of anti-Latino gun-toting nuts that have appointed themselves as border patrolmen along the Arizona-Mexico border--about 500 of them. So nutty is this group that even the first nut to attempt his own brand of vigilante border justice, Glenn Spencer of the American Border Patrol, fears this group. They are well-armed, thanks to the "seckund 'mendment" and have a hate for anyone that doesn't look "'merkin".

The Department of Homeland Security must deem them a national security threat and place them on their known terror group list. For the last couple of decades in which these groups have been in existence, there have been many unexplained immigrant deaths, beatings, and rapes of immigrant women. Although they are reported, law enforcement has failed to do anything about it. They are domestic terrorists of the same brand as Tim McVey--produced by our American military who have then turned on their own government. They are traitors and should be stopped. Anything less shows that the Bush adminstration condones anti-Latino attitudes, as well as continued vigilanteism on the border.

Isn't the real problem the abismal wages that are paid to immigrant workers in the first place. I know it's a little convoluted, but if all those poverty wage jobs that attract illegals to flock to the US actually paid decent wages, they wouldn't be the kind of jobs that Americans don't want. Americans would fill them.

The right wing wants to have it both ways, they want to be able to reap obsene corporate profits by continually devaluing the work force, but at the same time they don't want to have any of those poor folks hangin' around. It seems like there are really two parties at work here. The corporations and the fatcats really have no problem with lots and lots of cheap immigrant labor. Meanwhile the rednecks and racists don't realize that they're being set up by their own party, but it does increase their allegence to it anyway. Another example of how masterfully the repugs manipulate middle America to vote against it's own self interests.

There's too many Mexicans in this country. Even the Mexicans I know say so.

There's too many white people in this country. Even the native Americans I know say so.

There are too many neo-cons in this county. Even the crazy republi-cons I know say so.

There are not enough border patrol agents period. As this nation doesn't protect its borders we get rampant illegal immigration with aspiring terrorists potentially sneaking over the border as part of the mix.

The real powers behind Bush have no real interest in securing the border and ending the flood of cheap labor anymore than they really want to stop the offshoring of formerly hogh paying jobs. They may make noises and make symbolic step ups on the border but the game will remain just a game. Oaklander is right in that as long as conditions continue to get worse the 'crackers' will become more racist and rabid in their hate based alliance with those that are betraying them.

Until the Democrats quit worshiping trans national corporate contributions and make a real effort at raising a substancial amount of their funds from the internet and other scorces there will be no real threat to the global eleteist cabal running national policy. As long as Bush is president (and most likely as things are now)any other Republican national policy will continue to be made by those whose first loyality is not to this nation.

Very obvious ultraliberal blathering on this issue. We must protect our borders.

Further, this is the unreality of the ultraliberal side that the majority despises.
The majority of the citizenry wants the illegals out of here. We certainly do not want to pay for millions of lower levels coming in here and taking jobs away from our own citizens in what now has become a race to the bottom and massive employment and wage problems in this country.
This coupled with the politicos massive immigration dumped in here from all over the world is destroying the society and the country.
They can all go to hell for what they did not to stem the flow.

Mexico is a land of the rich and their friends and hose who wait on them. Birth control would have been part of the answer. They did it to themselves. The U.S. does not have to pick up what the wealthy in Mexico have refused to deal with. They have armed guards on their borders. Injured in Mexico? Money up front or you get no treatment!

In re to Oaklanders reply to Toby: Got a big smile when I read this, Oaklander. A lot of people aren't aware that when the reservation system in the U.S. was put into play in the 1830s, that the government of Mexico invited many of the tribes to immigrate to Mexico.
One of the tribes that did so were the Kickapoos from my area of Illinois. They joined their native American brothers, the Mexicans, and still live the traditional Kickapoo lifestyle just across the border.
I think that there is nothing but justice being served when they sneak off the giant reservation that is Mexico, and come back to claim what was theirs in the first place. And Tobys statement about too many mexicans in the U.S. is just a scream (was he joking?) as was your reply.

Just a thought for Alex, in re his comment about medical treatment in Mexico. The AARP magazine sites the huge numbers of American citizens moving to Mexico for retirement. Many cities in Mexico are becoming predominantly english speaking havens for U.S. retirees. One reason that it is an entirely feasible idea, is that although U.S. Citizens do not qualify for Mexican Health Care, they can buy into the Mexican system for approx. 48 dollars a year. And that treatment is roughly comparable to U.S. Medicare.
Check it out in the AARP magazine.

There are some fabulously rich people in Mexico, but most live much poorer than what we consider " poor" in the US. There is abject poverty in every area as well as extreme riches, and a small still developing middle class which is the minority. The average income of Mexico's poorest 40% is only $515.00. I might add that in Mexico, most of the households are not two incomes.

Unless you have flown over Mexico City, you could not imagine the poverty. My Brother-in-law, who owns his own business, was talking with a man one day in Mexico. When asked what he would pay a typical employee, the Mexican could not get it through his head that this was an hourly wage, not a weekly wage.

Dear Pessimist . . .

It is an interesting discussion. I recently wrote a missive on Mexican migration and American immigration laws. My writing was inspired by the success of the immigrants rather than the reactive behavior of Minutemen.

I thought I might share my thoughts on this situation with you. I invite you to read, reflect, and offer your comments.
THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION, MEXICAN MIGRANTS ©

Betsy L. Angert Be-Think