The (sick) argument that 'we didn't get to offer amendments' or 'it was going to pass anyway' just isn't going to pass muster.

If the bill in its final form isn't 'Democrat worthy', then Dems should NOT vote for it if they later want to complain how bad it is. Even this liberal won't buy that, and I can't imagine why any voter would.

A minority party that can't maintain some high level of voting discipline on key legislation does not earn the title of political party, particularly if the majority is bent on destructive actions.

I don't know of a way to prevent Dems giving aid and comfort (giving the Repubs the ability to claim 'bipartisan' support), except to take names and kick butt. I'm ready for that. Scorecards should be prominently displayed in the leadup to party primaries, and support should flow to the faithful.

Good luck this weekend. I'll still be here, and we will get better.

Jim,

Amendments are what politicians use to make lawmaking workable. Getting dictated to does not make the system work any better. That is their job, after all, to make laws.

As far as 'Democrat worthy,' well, that's a different fish. And I don't want you to think I was using 'it would have passed anyway' excuse, because I'm not. Nor am I making excuses, the votes are what they are.

But I don't think the Democrats are irredeemable either. But boy, they need a lotta work.

That will be one of my questions for Mr. Filner if I see him there, if he goes, "what the hell were you thinking?"

Did you read the NDN stuff on the bankruptcy bill over at Atrios? Same kind of thinking as with the estate tax bill. Discipline? Just think what kind of discipline the Dems would be showing if the NDN kid was the DNC chair instead of Dean. See, it can always get worse!

And that is one of my goals, to communicate to the Partie some sense of my, and yours, frustration with their actions, and the damage it causes to the country. But people hate to admit they're wrong, so it's tough sledding (whatever that means, coming from a San Diego native!) getting them to change. More Louise Slaughters please, fewer Ellen Tauschers.

Tell them its time to STOP working with the Republicans. No more of this bi-partisan working together shit. its time to be a united opposition party opposed to the gop who is attacking our democracy, our constitution, our people. it time to stand up for America. The repubs have become un-american - no dem can vote with them on bills that attack the American people. Tell them to become an opposition party or become Republican. That's the choice. We are not living in normal times - I believe the survival of this country is at stake. The battle lines have to be drawn. you are with us or against us. you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. its not about politics - its about the survival of our democracy.

We can "do better" till we are blue in the face but as long as the gop owns the voting machines & the software which records & counts the votes, we are just spinning our wheels. There will never be another Democrat elected to national office and only to local offices if it suits their purposes.
Eventually the moderate Republicans will turn on their own but it will be too late. There will always be a late turnout of Republican voters who will mysteriously turn the tide and put in whomever the Bushes want.

What is the Democrats "nuclear option?" We hear all the time about the Republican's "nuclear option" to end the filibuster. I hear that Reid's response will be to halt government operations with other parliamentary tactics. Is that our nuclear option?

If so, why are we waiting? Why is our nuclear option a reactive, defensive tactic? Why don't we have anything we can do offensively that is successful? How are we supposed to convince folks to join our side when we are so pitifully weak?

When I say "do better" I mean doing things that demonstrate our values. Buying an h2 hummer would not be doing better. Buying a high mileage car is. And it also serves to undercut the money that flows into the thugs coffers that then goes into tom delays and grover rovers bankrolls.

When I say better I mean doing things that get liberals elected at the local level, instead of goppers. If Donna Frye can get 160,000 votes after a one month, no money campaign, okay not much money campaign, then Democrats can clearly get elected at the local level. And the machine manipulators aren't going to rig things at the local level, too many hands in the cookie jar and all.

And that's how we get them; remember, outside of extralegal means, the goppers gained NOTHING in the Congressional races.

I don't share the pessimism, neither do I have high hopes. But the year before last, when Dr. Gov. Chairman Dean was runnng roughshod over the rest of the Dems people laughed at me when I said we could beat bush. They saw no chance for the Democrats. They all saw another McGovern trouncing. But it didn't happen that way, and look at the lies and cheating and threats, look at how desperate and untempered the efforts that the thugs had to go through to steal this last election. And do you think that frist or gingrich or cheney or jeb whatever other dirtbag runs in ought 8 is going to reap that same public support? Do you really think they're going to engineer another 9/11 to stampede public opinion, given the publics ever slowly growing awareness of the depths of depravity of the bush admin?

I don't.

Oh, and thanks NealB, your question too has been noted in the building!

Duckman GR:

"If you do better, and if I do better, if Steve and jj and Judith and rlprather and Matt and yes, even Toby, do better, then we're all better off, correct?"

You're out of your mind if you think any of these people want to do better. This is a bitch blog, for people who like to bitch. Only purity and absolutism are accepted here. It's like reading a bunch of left-wing evangelicals - except for this post of yours, which is amazingly pragmatic.

If you really want to see how pointless this blog is, except as a kind of left-wing Rorshach testt, read Soto's long, detailed, and ultimately impotent rant about Delay and his Great Documents of Freedom. How many hours went into that? And for what? Self-abuse? Self-gratification?

The only thing going on over here is divisiveness, and that's not going to get it done for the Dems. Like the Deaniacs that many of these people were, they want to claim the high ground AND exclude everyone else from it. Which is why they're losers.

US Grant,
sorry but with your bitching you just made a fool out of yourself. You must be drinking too much!

jj!!!!!

JJ:

"sorry but with your bitching you just made a fool out of yourself."

No I didn't. Your routine comments, and Judiths, and those of the other regulars here more than make my point. This blog is dying, and it's dying because its only reason for being is making the resident bloggers feel good about their own disillusionment.

In the past Soto made some good points about Gallup's bullshit poll distributions, but rather than focus like a laser beam on that problem, with the goal of preventing the same thing from happening in the future, this blog wallows in smug superiority. God forbid anyone here should actually dirty their hands and get involved in politics. No: that's for the cowards who compromise.

I think Steve pretty well has hammered gallup, and everybody on the blogosphererama factors their bias into whatever they do. I see it all over, it's info that people factor into their understanding of the polls. And that's pretty much the point, isn't it? Steve can't make gallup do anything, but he can expose them for the cheap gopper whores they are.

As far as doing things, getting the Democrats to stand up and fight has been the main effort of many on this blog, and this post addresses one method for that, and this one shows the starting point of that effort.

Besides using this place for venting, as you're doing too, we're passing ideas and strategies and sharpening arguments. If you think that's a waste of time, fine. I don't.

US Grant, jj was right! The only thing you have offered today is a criticism of this blog, the bloggers and it's contributors. All you have done is bitch, moan, and complain about others bitching, moaning, and complaining.

But mostly, you make many assumptions about the activities, involvement, and lives about the commenters and main page bloggers here. You know what people end up making of themselves when they assume to much don't you, well you have lived up to that today.

And lastly if you think this blog is so awful, then why in God's name are you even wasting your time hers reading it or posting here?

Is all this intraparty quarreling over the perceived treachery of some members the beginning of some kind of purge? Are y'all starting to realize that the only solution to the problem of party is to not belong to one? You may think I'm a Rethuglikkkan, but I've never believed in being a card-carrying member of anything (Groucho-style). In fact, they ought to rig up voting machines to deliver a fatal jolt of electricity to anyone who votes a straight ticket.

You have to vote your conscience, not the party.

I recongize the writing. Don't be fooled. U. S. Grant is aka Elbow. By-the-way, I am related to President Grant, so I take offense at you using his name.

By-the-way Grant aka Elbow, I would suggest that you ignore my posts if they upset you that much. Yeah, your right, I bitch, and you know what, I am going to continue to bitch regardless of your opinion. Unlike you, I don't have the answers. I vent, and by my venting, I let others know on this Blog that they are not alone in some of their feelings. That fact alone attracted me to this Blog site in the first place.

May I suggest you post what you think the Democrats should be doing to ensure their future as a Party. I would be most interested. You are so critical of others on this Blog, let's hear what you have to say.

Grant, also thanks for putting me in the same catagory of such good people.