Steve
They can blame not making money on health care exspenses but they can't blame not selling cars on it. Ford and GM's sales were down while Toyota's was up 21%. They have acres of unsold gas guzzeling SUV's while Toyota has a waiting list for hybrids.

And the last time I checked, some of Detroit's overseas rivals come from countries with a more advanced view of health care.

THEY PAY MUCH HIGHER TAXES.

THEY PAY MUCH HIGHER TAXES.

Ohh! Hold me, I'm afraid! It's the Boogeyman of taxes!!! Mommy!

Total your taxes up, muck. You'll find you are paying about the same and getting far less for it in return. But, let us not let reason intrude. Instead, let's have your dream of no benefits, no health care, and no Social Security for anyone. The world is of the moment, no future goals for you. It's a brave new world that resembles a Fiefdom, and you're the sucker groveling in the muck...dog.

But never fear, those without health insurance are covered. They cause the cost of your healthcare to increase and force businesses to screw-down benefits. Ask Walmart, they take advantage of the fact. Thank God their taxes aren't too high. Of course, that's what you get when you give $3.2 million to republi-cons in the 2004 election. Another $57 million in new tax cuts and no estate tax to fuck-up family control. You just have to admire them...Well, you do. I most certainly don't.

The problem with healthcare is incredibly simple and could be fixed very easily.

NOBODY in this country takes responsibility for their own healthcare. They want insurance to pick up every single bill they might acquire. If people would use insurance properly, like say for MAJOR things (surgery, child birth) rather than wanting them to pay for a physical, or an eye exam, or a dental cleaning. This would lower premiums and force people to take responsibility for themselves.

Also, Socialized healthcare sucks. Take a look at Canada. THey recently began sending people a notice of when they can have their procedure done, and at the bottom it states that if the person that is recieving this letter has died, please except our apologies. (Not a joke either, I wihs it was though)
It does not work in canada, G.B., France, Germany or anywhere else they have tried it. And those countries also offer "privatized" healthcare, and it is an option for the people. If I remember correctly, it is a hell of a lot better to have the privatized plan. Actually this is very similar to S.S. Just ask your senetor and representative if they have use the "privatized" accounts offered to them?

bigdog's obviously not a believer in preventive medicine.

And those countries also offer "privatized" healthcare, and it is an option for the people.

And those people would be called "wealthy," a group without many problems of access.

The rest of your statements are largely crap, too. If you'll look, and I'll not lift a finger to google a damn thing for a person who is so lazy that all they can do is spout neo-con bullshit, you'll find the US spends more on the care of poor people per capita than any other country. Why? Because when you're poor, you have to wait until little shit becomes big, and then use emergency services. Not having nationalized healthcare is more expensive than having nationalized healthcare, nimrod. It comes directly out of your pocket, but your inability to form a cause-effect relationship prevents you from seeing that.

Bigdog,

I know this is informal writing and we can all decipher what you type, but please at least read it over before you post. By doing so, you might realize how absurd your ideas are. The good one phidipides is right.

NOBODY in this country takes responsibility for their own healthcare. They want insurance to pick up every single bill they might acquire.

Your problem is with absolutes. By claiming NOBODY does one thing or the other, you make your argument pointless. Of course, there are many who take responsibility for their health and work with their doctors to prevent future health problems. Do you think people choose to ignore their health? Do you think they like feeling like crap but working anyway? Do you think they like putting off taking care of that nasty high blood preasure until it is too late?

Sorry, I didn't mean to rant.

Bigdog, you've got it all so wrong in your narrow neverland. I guess I should be happy that I am not related to you. Otherwise, you would deny me even the basics of life.

On a brighter note, please keep posting Bigdog. I love to read what others write in response.

Thanks,
Dora

I heard an opinion tonight on GM, that Kerkorian might try and get rid of the unions, settle with the bond holders, and sell GM manufacturing operations to the Chinese.

Interesting thoughts.

thank you philipides, you save me alot of typing. your work IS APPRECIATED! have a nice day.

Muckdog is right, on the interesting thoughts part of GM moving to China.

If GM were to do that, all this country would have left in any kind of manufacturing that mattered would be defense and aerospace, two major companies dominating above all else -- Boeing and Lockheed -- and that's it. Neither one of those employs anywhere near the number GM and Ford do.

Transportation accounts for roughly one-sixth of our economy, of which the autos are by far the largest plurality.

Last time GM had a strike for two weeks -- brake plant in Indiana in '97 or '98, causing all N. American GM operations to cease and affecting many but not all suppliers, if I remember the location right -- it measurably dented the GDP by something like half a percent, and that was just two weeks. So, what happens if GM were to leave for China, taking the jobs with it?

Well, simple math tells you the GDP of the U.S. would shrink by at least 10 percent, throw in the suppliers, which account for more jobs than GM, and that number grows further.

Yeah, that's interesting Muckdog, interesting like a heart attack.

I am assuming that if GM were to pull that, Ford and Chrysler would follow suit. The autos work that way -- one does something, the others follow suit.

So it should be up to insurence to pay every little thing that needs to be done, rather than perhaps be there to pay only for the things that are very expensive. All i'm saying is that people want insurance to cover everything, rather than paying for a check-up out of their own pocket. You can also blame the AMA for this, because when you go to a doctor, you go their blindly because they are unable to advertise their rates. Why? Why should a doctor not be able to put in the newspaper $20 check-up? Why is competition so important to the goverment everywhere else, but not important when it comes to doctors?

What is so wrong with you (the individual) taking care of your bills such as check-ups? And what is wrong with relying on insurance for major problems...like Cancer treatment, Heart Surgery

Dora, Please show me one case where Socialized healthcare is more successful than what we have here? You will never find it!

Philip,
You wont google it because you know I'm right. Socialized medicine does not work in any other country, why would it work here? People that have universal coverage have to wait so goddamn long for treatment, it is ridiculous. There are a fuck ton of people that come to the U.S. from Canada to recieve treatment, and thats not bullshit. Also, within 4 months their is going to be elections in Canada and the current opposition party is going to easily win the majority based on the fact that their health care system is in complete shambles. Don't respond to this yet...wait until the election and then I'll except your opoligies.

All i'm saying is that people want insurance to cover everything, rather than paying for a check-up out of their own pocket.

Ever hear of a deductible?

Bigdog,
The depth and breadth of your ignorance is apparently limitless. Where to begin? I don't know what health insurance you have, but I run a small business and our health ins. premiums go up about 30% every year while our deductibles and copays go up every year. We cannot obtain insurance at any price which pays first out of pocket dollar on all medical expenses and such policies don't exist.

Health ins. doesn't even pay for the big costs. Last week I attended 2 fundraisers for families whose children are both having cancer treatments. Both families have insurance, but still owe over $30,000 each because of uncovered expenses or because of max pay provisions.

What evidence do you have that national healthcare doesn't work in every other developed nation in the world? Apparently they aren't looking to the US as a model for change. Perhaps it's because the US has higher infant mortality rates and shorter life expectancies than any other developed country.

The idea that Canadians are streaming to the US for health care is a myth. Yes, some wealthy Canadians do come to the US for elective surgeries such as face lifts, tummy tucks and boob jobs. However, since I live in a bordering state, I know that a hell of a lot more US citizens go to Canada to buy drugs at reasonable prices and to have Lasik surgery at a fraction of the costs in the US.

Of course, the popular refrain from the insurance lackies is that health care is rationed in Canada, it's bureaucratic, and one might have to wait for certain types of nonurgent procedures. Well, buddy, health care is rationed in the US, its just rationed upon your ability to pay. Those working people who make too much to be eligible for Medicaid yet are unable to afford health ins. don't go to Drs. because they can't afford it. Every Dr. in the town I live in requires cash up front before they'll even see a patient. A number of Drs. won't see Medicaid patients because of their low reimbusement schedules.

As far as bureaucracy goes, allmost all plans are now "managed care" plans. That means you have to go to their Drs.. That means that the ins. co. has to approve you seeing their specialist and the ins. co. has to approve all nonurgent diagnostic and surgical procedures. Have you ever tried to go through these chambers of hell to get a cat scan? Obviously not or you would be singing a different tune.

Finally, the US system is totally irrational. Since Drs. don't have to see people without cash up front, those unable to pay don't seek health care because they can't afford it. I mean, when its the difference between seeing a dr. because of that nagging chest pain or buying groceries for your family that week, they'll buy the groceries. Then, when the guy collapses, they'll take him to the ER because ERs have to accept all patients. Then, the guy has open heart surgery, and can't afford the $100,000 in medical expenses and has to go bankrupt. The hospital has to charge more to those that can afford to pay, so it can keep its doors open. Then ins. cos. raise their rates and more businesses drop health ins. because they can't afford it. With national health care, the guy could've gone to the Dr., gotten a stress test, gotten some cholesterol lowering drugs at a reasonable price, and avoided surgery all together.

Yep, that sounds like a bad idea, better keep the "system" we got and blame the people who support a family on $24,000 a year for not having the extra $200 bucks to see the Dr. And for God's sakes, don't raise the minimum wage either, that's just socialism too.

Nicely done Dick. I LOVE you're opening sentence, as it seems to sum up most of what biglog says here whenever he posts most eloquently!! BRAVO!

I must concur as I live in a bordering state as well. I have a friend who went to Canada to have his (remaining, rotted) teeth pulled and be fitted for dentures because 1. He had crone's disease growing up, which caused him to be sick a lot as a child- which rotted out his teeth (nasty stomach acid will do that) and 2. It was ASTRONOMICALLY cheaper to do this in Canada than it was to do it here. And, he was PAYING OUT OF POCKET!!! (Take special note biglog.)

And we're not even talking about 'regular' medicine here; we're talking about Dentists/Oral Surgeons.

But that's ok, biglog knows allllllllllll about this, and has obviously done his research. Unlike my friends who live in Europe and Australia who HAVE THESE TYPES OF PROGRAMS AND HAVE USED THEM FOR YEARS who tell me that while they are OBVIOUSLY not perfect, they would never want to have to deal with what we deal with over here. As you correctly stated: "Apparently they aren't looking to the US as a model for change."

How true.

Give it up biglog, or do some research for a change will you? I constantly see you in here saying: "Gee so and so, that's very interesting, could you give me some examples."

No, look them up yourself asshole, if you're interested- you connect to the same fucking internet that we do you dolt! Geeze....

Oh, and PS: for a "teacher", your spelling and grammar are simply atrocious- try using spell check/grammar check once in a while eh??

lol!!!! LOL!!!!!!

I still can't get over it!!!

"The depth and breadth of your ignorance is apparently limitless."

Too god damn funny!!

Hey, even Muck will bring it with some links and statistics once in a while and displays at least a modicum of ability to use Google...!

Dick, you're killing me over here!! You too Phidip!!! Rock on guys!

sic that biglog! HAHAAAA!!!

you go their blindly because they are unable to advertise their rates...

It's true bigdog, it's hard to take seriously someone who doesn't know the difference between there and their...I understand your being excited to post and get the attention you so obviously crave, but as Marty said, for all our sakes take the time to use spellchecker BEFORE posting. Thanks.