In theory you're correct but in reality the only represenatives from that left that are allowed on FAUX news are wimps like Alan Colmes and soft ball players from the think tanks. They would never allow the kind of Democrat you talk about on the air.
Posted by Ron In Portland at May 31, 2005 06:37 PMWonder what James Carville is doing these days.
Posted by Judith at May 31, 2005 07:01 PMFace it, liberals just can't debate intellectual conservatives.
Posted by Al at May 31, 2005 07:07 PMAl, we can debate them fine, when we can find them....
Posted by Steve Soto at May 31, 2005 07:18 PMintellectual conservatives
an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Couldn't agree more Yuval. As another ancedote - I work in the center of the center of the liberal universe - my building is on top of Grand Central Station in NYC. Every day when I come into work I pass through the newshop that stands in the middle of Grand Central, and I sure enough FoxNews is blaring from 5 different Tvs there everyday. Same thing at Penn Station. Has Fox contractually obligated all these stores to air them 24/7 (in exchange for what? free Tvs or something?)? Probably. We MUST fight back by staying engaged, our leaders and elected officials must stay "on message" 1000xs better, and our money men need to buy their own network already!!
Posted by Dave at May 31, 2005 07:20 PMDemographics is destiny. This will matter less
soon.impact.
America is in the early stages of a paradigm shift. Generation Y will shape the first half of the 21st century like their boomer parents did the last half of the 20th century. The time period 1951-60 was very unlike what would come shortly after. The fifties had the domainant GI generation rasing their boomer children. Many boomers put off parenthood until after 1975 resulting in a baby bust (generation X, my age group)we who were born in the 60' and 70's, are relativily few in numbers. This decade we're in will likely be as different from the following 40 years as the fifties were from 1960-2000.
When the boomers, especially boomer women felt the biological clock ticking they gave birth between 1980 and 2000 to a generation, aided by immigration, larger than their own. And this most racially and religiously dirverse generation is going to give the tired old Reagan coalition the coup de grace.
This is ultimatily why the GOP is so frantic to solidify its hold on power in both the public and private spheres, they're running out of time.
Posted by rlprather at May 31, 2005 07:43 PMrlprather ... thanks for your post.
Posted by Jim Faith at May 31, 2005 08:53 PMGreat post, Yuval. Yes, we need some really good people who can go on FAUX news and confront the lies with truth - but in a very entertaining way. Otherwise, the sea of lies FAUX news spews will shape every argument. Remember almost 80% of FAUX news viewers (even those who are liberal and didn't necessarily agree with the conclusion) believed the lies the Bush propaganda machine put out about why we had to take out Iraq. We ignore it at our peril.
Posted by Mary at May 31, 2005 09:59 PMCongratulations and shalom on the occasion of your graduation, Yuval!
Posted by condor at May 31, 2005 10:22 PMUnfortunately, Mary, Fox news will not allow good people to go on the air, preferring always to stack the deck on the side of their talking points, yet give the thinnest veneer of "balance", aka Alan Colmes. They've been running that game for years. It's a complete set-up.
Posted by sf at May 31, 2005 10:30 PMGreat post, Yuval. You are on to something.
Your observations are coincident with those I get watching my good Christian/ Orange County (CA) Republicans as they watch Jerry Springer. It's all read meat at the Coloseum, and the more blood the better. If that's what it takes to get their attention, so be it - but let's use their blood. We've shed enough of ours over the last twenty-five years.
Posted by pessimist at June 1, 2005 03:23 AMYuval, as several have noted, Fox News controls who goes on their shows. So, nice idea; but not likely to happen.
On the other hand, you and those who share your point of view control what you watch or don't watch. So, instead of a focus on boycotting Fox News, how about boycotting Fox? Are you up for that? Could you help organize a large and growing boycott of Fox?
Believe me, if Fox were boycotted, Fox News would feel it. And, even better, it would only take a noticeable decline in viewership to succeed. Your Fox Boycott need not eliminate ALL viewership....even 3 to 5% drop would get the atttention of advertisers and, in turn, shareholders.
Shareholder value, Yuval. That's the bottom line. Remember the Clear Channel outrage of Election 2004? The subsequent boycott and related actions led to a significant decline in CC earnings.....and, guess what? The shareholders noticed.
Boycott Fox.......organize a boycott of Fox......get others involved........get MoveOn's support......go for it, Yuval!
Posted by Doug at June 1, 2005 03:54 AMJim,
If we can keep the constitutional system in tact, this is why the GOP being willing to compromise makes me optimistic in that they don't act like they have the game rigged, demographics swing heavily to the Democrats perhaps as early as 2008. America ten years from now will be very different and likely more progressive than today. Our activism, especially in mobilizing the young, and talents will help bring about what should be sooner rather than later.
Posted by rlprather at June 1, 2005 04:24 AMriprather - man, you have made my day with that post. Very interesting, and it ties into the Judis/Texiera Emerging Democratic Majority. Boy, I hopw you're right.
Posted by Fred at June 1, 2005 05:01 AMI used to think that the Media was just filled with incredibly lazy people who only reported stories that were simplistic and reinforced the readers' fears and prejudices. I still believe this to some extent but after the financial success and continuous BS spouted by Limbaugh and others for the past 18 years, I believe that O'Reilly and others of his ilk are really only in it for the money. They actually have only one ideology and that is money. Everything they say relates to the suppression of peoples' salaries and the enrichment of the scum they idolize. Not all jobs can be outsourced.
Posted by Catherine at June 1, 2005 05:42 AMLast year I heard about this cool little universal, TV shut-off remote. I just did a search and located it. The TV-B-Gone. If we all carried one of these little babies, No TV in any airport, store, or bar would be safe. Check out the reviews on Amazon.
Posted by ouzel at June 1, 2005 05:44 AMThe other thing we can do is demand that businesses change the channel. I think they often have Fox on because they aren't paying attention. By speaking out and letting them know we're offended by Fox programming, maybe they'll tune to something that won't offend either side.
Posted by Susan S at June 1, 2005 05:47 AMSo let's say we 'debate' a far right Republican about creationism vs. evolution taught as science, for instance. The moment we do, we lose, because the mid point between creationism and evolution is not science any more and the media, now firmly established as infotainment instead of news will just muddy the water. And it will begin talking about some sort of middle ground.
What Progressives, Democrats must do is, for the most part, ignore Republicans and just start talking, endlessly, about what they are FOR, what they stand for, in as simple language as possible.
It is very, very tempting to focus on what the Republicans and Neocons have done that is bad for the country. But if we do, we miss the opportunity to create our own vision of what we want for the country.
It is time now for all Progressives and Democrats to speak loudly about what we want this country to be like. What would we focus on? What would we do (in visionary, principled terms only because we do not want to get into a debate) about taxation, social security, etc?
they have the game rigged
rlprather - rigged elections / electronic voting / Diebold are the things that concern me the most. To me, it seems as if the cultists are acting like they'll never lose another election. They've had 6 years to perfect their cheating. To offset that advantage, your post made me optimistic that sheer numbers might be on our side.
Posted by Jim Faith at June 1, 2005 08:06 AMboycotting Fox News .... ha ha ha ha! How would you know what FOX news is like unless you do watch it? For shame!
I didn't know changing the channel counted as a boycott!! Does that mean you can't flip past the station either?
..what we want this country to be like .... what? Open Borders, National Healthcare, Soup & Bread lines for everyone, NAMBLA & ACLU holding hands around a Boy Scout camp fire singing Kum-bi-ya....sounds great!
Fox News controls who goes on their shows ... huh! really?! I didn't know anyone could just show up on CNN and have a debate!! Wow!
STOP IT!! You guys are cracking me up! LOL!!
Posted by LOL!!! at June 1, 2005 08:10 AMWhenever one of the Nazi/Nazi Collaborators makes a statement of fact, the standard response should be, "Maybe, but given the administration's record of criminal deceit, we no longer know what the truth is. This is the most deceitful administration since Nixon.".
Posted by Nigel Snarkley-Smythe at June 1, 2005 08:19 AMYuval,
I think you are on to something with this post. However, the problem is getting that sharp tongued liberal on the air in the first place. There is a reason that milquetoast liberals are paired up fire brand neo-cons on Fox. It's deliberate. What we need to do is change the tone of the network in general. It has long been my contention that we should begin a campaign to shame Fox into living up to its slogan. You know that "Fair and Balanced" thing. We should begin to bitch loudly and longly about the entrenched conservative bias at Fox news and demand that they "balance" that bias by hiring a true blue liberal to host his/her own show. This effort is a win/win no matter what the outcome. First, no matter what we get the idea out there that Fox is biased and not to be trusted. Think "If Fox is so fair and balanced, why doesn't a liberal have their own show on the network?" If nothing else, if we can make enough noise, then the network will have to respond and in forcing a reponse we get our message out even more. Then if we do get a liberal show, we've proven that they actually were biased and we get a voice in the neo-con wilderness. Win/win!
Posted by Mike at June 1, 2005 08:52 AM..what we want this country to be like .... what? Open Borders, National Healthcare, Soup & Bread lines for everyone, NAMBLA & ACLU holding hands around a Boy Scout camp fire singing Kum-bi-ya....sounds great!
bigdog?
Posting under other names! Your prejudices give you away.
For shame.
Posted by muckcat at June 1, 2005 10:39 AMJim and Fred,
Thanks again for the correspondance. The arguement can be made that with the increased turnout of young pro-Kerry voters last year the only thing that saved Bush was Rove's successful drive to register older rural and suburban evangelicals. This was like a resperator to the Nixon-Reagan coalition. But, they can't play that card again, like everyone else they only get one vote. Most pre-election polls gave Bush a slight lead last Novenber, and as both sides mobilized their voters well, a 3 point victory either way was within the oft-reported margin of error. Vote counting transperency matters and we can talk more about methods to ensure it, but, last years outcome was not statistically abnormal.
Look at the last four GOP re-election attempts and the case can be made that the old coalition is fading. Both Nixon and Reagan won 49 states abd about 60% of the popular vote. Of the two Bushes the first one lost and the second scraped by narrowly, aided by 911 and other fears. Yes, other factors are involved but time matters.
Remember, some people think America is on the 'wrong track' because of social issues like abortion. Such voters voted for Bush even though their 'wrong track' answer would suggest otherwise. Because of this I believe that the 'wrong track' number has to get above 60% before it measures true unhappiness with Bush. Nevertheless, unhappiness is growing among all age groups and given this administration's imcompetence the day of re-allignment is being hastened. Americans of all ages are getting a better look at Bush in this second term and what they see will be reflected in later elections. Everyday more members of generation Y turn 18 and, to put it crudely, everyday more of the old GOP coalition die off. Last century the sixties were very different from the fifties and the next decade will be very different from this one.
Janusz--If you are the Janusz Gottwald of the good old Gottwald Associates in NYC--Hi! I am trying to get an email address for Luke just to say hi for old times sake. I hope you are doing well (if in fact it is you of the old days). Email me directly at hdmustangman@msn.com. Later old friend. Dave
Posted by Dave Hoggatt at June 16, 2005 05:53 PM