Boy, that decision is tough to justify.
Posted by Matt Davis at June 7, 2005 08:50 AMBoy, that decision is tough to justify.
Yeah. Kerry would have had to stand around with his mouth open drooling on himself to make Bush look good in comparison.
Too bad.
Posted by muckcat at June 7, 2005 08:54 AMYou know I hate these sleazy war criminal GOP bastards and I voted for the Kerry/Edwards ticket
and would again if that were the choice, but one thing this story illustates very well is that not only was Kerry's team incompetent and useless, but Kerry really wasn't a very good candidate and he won't be in 2008 either.
Polling, Focus Groups and Media Consultants just don’t cut it anymore. Face it, the GOP does not play fair; they lie, cheat and steal. The Democrats will continue to fade into the woodwork like Senator Kerry unless they develop an aggressive populist message. Even when the GOP and other Democrats in Name Only smear the message at least it gets across the fact that the Democrats are the only politicians concerned about working Americans.
Posted by Jim S at June 7, 2005 09:11 AMFrom the "silver lining" wing of the blogosphere:
John Kerry's loss was the third - best outcome of the election.
The first best would have been Dem President, Dem Senate;
The second best would have been Bush as President, Dem Senate (many of us would have gone to DC and drafted the Congressional subpoenas for free);
The third best is what we have: Bush as President, Repub. Senate. The wheels are starting to come off everything and there's no one for them to blame;
The fourth best would have been Kerry winning the popular vote and facing a Republican Senate & House -- they would blame him entirely for Iraq and impeach him in about two or so years;
The fifth best would have been 60,000 Ohio voters switching to Kerry from Bush, making Kerry President because he won the Electoral College vote while losing the popular vote, and facing this Senate/Congress -- they would have impeached him in a year, and probably had him shipped to Gitmo about six months after that.
Posted by fbg46 at June 7, 2005 09:19 AMthe GOP does not play fair; they lie, cheat and steal
Three words for you.
Pot, Kettle, Black.
Posted by at June 7, 2005 09:21 AMNow I understand why the local LA Fox station read a 'study' about the relative college grades of John Kerry and George Bush! Kerry's average was about 77 the first year, then went up as he progressed. Bush began about the same level, stayed there for two years, then went up some at the end.
Despite the difference of the middle years, the fact that both finished with similar grades made them 'equally intelligent'.
Yeah - I buy that one!
Posted by pessimist at June 7, 2005 09:24 AMThree top fundraisers at the Democratic National Committee have resigned at a time when its chairman, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, has come under fire from fellow Democrats for controversial comments and his Republican counterpart has raised more than twice as much money.
Sorry to see that we are not able to consider non-news as they deserve.
Kerry had already released most of the records that were pertinent to the Swift Boat Story. So there is no news there.
Because of that, the media focus on the grade story, that had already been written as well, and it should come to no surprise that the liberal blogs, instead of focusing on more important stories, push the meme.
Who cares what grades Bush and Kerry got in Yale. They have a man life to talk about their qualities and defaults.
Posted by at June 7, 2005 09:29 AMIf you don't even have the balls to put a name up, then why don't you STFU, you coward?
Posted by CapD at June 7, 2005 09:36 AMYour analysis of this issue is much more insightful than Kos'.
Posted by Paul at June 7, 2005 09:49 AMI did hear that Kerry's intelligence was overstated during the campaign. Kerry was portrayed as a genious compared to Bush, and it turns out that Bush did slightly better in college than Kerry.
LOL
WASHINGTON - During last year's presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences.
But newly released records show that Bush and Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago.
In 1999, The New Yorker published a transcript indicating that Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average under a non-numerical rating system during his senior year.
Kerry, who graduated two years before Bush, got a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript that Kerry sent to the Navy when he was applying for officer training school. He received four D's in his freshman year out of 10 courses, but improved his average in later years.
Walk the world in peace, John Kerry. You never will, but I wish such a thing were possible. Lord knows you've tried hard enough.
Posted by paradox at June 7, 2005 10:04 AMLOL. That sleazy school photo is enough to justify withholding the Navy file. That's friggin' hysterical. What a tool!
Funny how he just realized records on file with the Navy to his hometown paper when he could have released his entire military file to the public. Still could if he wanted to. Something's fishy. And if he's still holding something back, it must be even worse than that picture. BWAHAHAHAHA!
Posted by ss at June 7, 2005 10:45 AMOops. Replace "realized" with "released".
Posted by ss at June 7, 2005 10:47 AMWell, I guess the bush cult is having exploding heads today. Witness the trolls that we have showing up. Bush supporters certainly have a limitless capacity to be duped!
Posted by ga6thdem at June 7, 2005 11:22 AMI did hear that Kerry's intelligence was overstated during the campaign.
Well, I read an article in the Atlantic that was primarily letters from Kerry home to his sweetheart and family. Whether he's bright all-round, I can't say; but he's very, very good with the written word. I don't say that kind of thing very often. And I'd bet Bush has trouble spelling "written word."
Posted by Matt Davis at June 7, 2005 11:34 AMKerry Threw the Election, as did Gore.
A. $51 Million still in Kerry's war chest at the end of the campaign.
B. Kerry held his punches in debates and on the campaign trail. Example: First Question, First Debate, "As president how would you protect America from another 9-11?" The right answer: "I wouldn't have gone on vacation for the month upon learning in a Presidential Briefing that Osama bin Laden's al Queda was determined to strike in the United States!
After all, Bush let 9-11 happen. He could have beat him to a pulp on that issue alone.
Kerry also ignored what Biden called the biggest PR failure on the war on terror: GITMO. No mention of the systematic torture regime imposed by this government. Virtually no mention of Abu Ghraib and what America reallys stands for.
I could on and on with how Kerry either mangled or ignored the issues prospective voters wanted addressed.
C. Conceded the election in light of his pledge that every vote would be counted, and they weren't. Despite irregulatities in Florida, again, such as under-tickets and referendums going 70%+ Democrat in some counties but Bush wins 60-40 in those same districts. Then Ohio, which had one county county reporting a 99% voter turnout. And, despite the fact that of the 17 machine programmers at Diebold, five are felons, and Diebold's president is the GOP chair in Ohio who promised to deliver the state.
I could on and on, and you're asking yourself why would Kerry do this?
Kerry has become one of the rich and priviledged in America, and holds the view that he has his power and he's happy. America is the most powerful country in the world and it needs and deserves the empire Bush is bringing it.
Or, the Texas mafia simply told him he could end up like one of the Kennedy family or Wellstone.
Posted by Carl Lee at June 7, 2005 11:48 AMYet Drudge does not tell about the results of these disclosure, and instead, brags that Kerry was an average student at Yale who got D's.
Posted by MS at June 7, 2005 11:58 AM"Kerry is on the outside looking in, more worried about his intellectual reputation than he was with clubbing the Swifties to death last year."
You fucking pussy.
Ouch sotohater, ouch.
Posted by Steve Soto at June 7, 2005 12:41 PMWhy Kerry May Have Been Right In Not Signing Form 180 Earlier
7 June 2005
The review of John Kerry's military records demonstrated that the charges of the Swift Boat Liars were not true. The records reviewed following the signing of the Form 180 were also found to be the same as those which Kerry released during the campaign and had posted on line.
This has raised questions as to why Kerry didn't just sign the Form 180 earlier. One reason given by Kerry was that, "The call for me to sign a 180 form came from the same partisan operatives who were lying about my record on a daily basis on the Web and in the right-wing media. Even though the media was discrediting them, they continued to lie. I felt strongly that we shouldn't kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out."
The media coverage shows Kerry may have been right in not kowtowing to them. Although the records show that the charges by the Swift Boat Liars were untrue, we have yet to see any admission of this from the right. O'Neill said yesterday that he would be disappointed if Kerry's files do not contain new information but told that Boston Globe that, ''I would still have the same beliefs expressed in my book." So much for their earlier claims that signing the Form 180 would be what determines the truth.
MORE - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1030
Posted by LUTD at June 7, 2005 12:42 PMthere was a lot of bs floating around that Kerry got less than an honorable discharge and then after Carter pardoned the draft dodgers his discharge was somehow "upgraded" to honorable.
I don't believe this myself, but I have a neocon friend who still believes this even after the records have been released.
Does anybody know if these allegations were clearly refuted in the documents released?
It would have taken a courts martial for Kerry to have received a dishonorable discharge.
Even if it were possible for Jimmy Carter to change the discharge status of a serviceman, the record of the courts martial would have been in Kerry's records.
Not even the Swifties tried to pass that lie, as it would be so easy to prove/disprove.
Posted by Carl Lee at June 7, 2005 01:38 PMAfter all, Bush let 9-11 happen. He could have beat him to a pulp on that issue alone.
He's going to let 9-11 Revenge of the Taliban happen if he doesn't get off he ass and guard our borders and ports.
Posted by at June 7, 2005 01:40 PMBTW: Most neocons have never served. So, they wouldn't have a clue. There vision of war comes from the movies, nintendo or board games.
Reagan thought the images from the movie Tora Tora Tora, or was it Midway, where the sailor grabs a 50 caliber machine and hand-holding it shot down Japanese planes was true. One, it didn't happen and two, it couldn't happen. Not even a muscleman like Schwartznegger could do it.
Posted by c at June 7, 2005 01:45 PMHe's going to let 9-11 Revenge of the Taliban happen if he doesn't get off he ass and guard our borders and ports.
How dare you question my work ethic! I don't sit on my ass all day. My job is hard work. I talk to foreign leaders in my office all day. I ride my bicycle twice a day and I walk Barney on the White House lawn everyday at 5 pm. Ya know it's hard work picking up that dog's crap especially after I've fed him those burritos that Jorge makes down in the kitchen. Mmm those burritos are so good.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK STEVE
Umm, so Kerry wasn't an intellectual/academic elitist snob wingers love to hate after all.....Who knew?
Anyhow, did they mention anything about the debating team captain versus the binge drinking cheerleading captain?
Posted by emal at June 7, 2005 01:47 PMWith stupid being so popular in American pop culture, Kerry probabally would have won had his bad grades come out last year.
Posted by rlprather at June 7, 2005 03:32 PMI stopped reading at shit...the second time Steve Soto used it.
Posted by andrew at June 7, 2005 03:56 PMSteve, your Kerry's vanity theory is easily the silliest thing I've ever read of yours.
ABSURD.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 7, 2005 05:27 PMToby,
You've been made a fool of again. You believe every lie. Man, I hope those boiler room operations have your name. P.T. Barnum has to be having a great time with your comments.
Yale grades portray Kerry as a lackluster student
His 4-year average on par with Bush's
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005
WASHINGTON -- During last year's presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences.
But newly released records show that Bush and Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago.
In 1999, The New Yorker published a transcript indicating that Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average under a non-numerical rating system during his senior year.
Kerry, who graduated two years before Bush, got a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript that Kerry sent to the Navy when he was applying for officer training school. He received four D's in his freshman year out of 10 courses, but improved his average in later years.
The grade transcript, which Kerry has always declined to release, was included in his Navy record. During the campaign the Globe sought Kerry's naval records, but he refused to waive privacy restrictions for the full file. Late last month, Kerry gave the Navy permission to send the documents to the Globe.
Kerry appeared to be responding to critics who suspected that there might be damaging information in the file about his activities in Vietnam. The military and medical records, however, appear identical to what Kerry has already released. This marks the first time Kerry's grades have been publicly reported.
The transcript shows that Kerry's freshman-year average was 71. He scored a 61 in geology, a 63 and 68 in two history classes, and a 69 in political science. His top score was a 79, in another political science course. Another of his strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class.
Under Yale's grading system in effect at the time, grades between 90 and 100 equaled an A, 80-89 a B, 70-79 a C, 60 to 69 a D, and anything below that was a failing grade. In addition to Kerry's four D's in his freshman year, he received one D in his sophomore year. He did not fail any courses.
''I always told my Dad that D stood for distinction," Kerry said yesterday in a written response to questions, noting that he has previously acknowledged that he spent a lot of time learning to fly instead of focusing on his studies.
Kerry's weak grades came despite years of education at some of the world's most elite prep schools, ranging from Fessenden School in Massachusetts to St. Paul's School in New Hampshire.
It is noteworthy, however, that Kerry received a high honor at Yale despite his mediocre grades: He was chosen to deliver his senior class oration, a testament to his reputation as a public speaker. He delivered a speech questioning the wisdom of the Vietnam War, in which he would soon see combat.
Kerry gradually improved his grades, averaging 81 in his senior year. His highest single grade was an 89, for a political science class in his senior year. Despite his slow start, he went on to be a top student at Naval Candidate School, command a patrol boat in Vietnam, graduate from law school, and become a prosecutor, lieutenant governor, US senator, and presidential candidate.
In his Navy application, Kerry made clear that he spent much of his college time on extracurricular activities, including the Yale Political Union, the Debating Association, soccer, hockey, fencing, and membership in the elite Skull and Bones Society. Asked to describe nonschool training that qualified him for the Navy, Kerry wrote: ''A great deal of sailing -- ocean and otherwise, including some navigation. Scuba diving. Rifle. Beginning of life saving." He said his special interests were ''filming," writing, and politics, noting that the latter subject occupied 15 hours per week.
Gaddis Smith, a retired Yale history professor who taught both Kerry and Bush, said in a telephone interview that he vividly remembers Kerry as a student during the 1964-1965 school year, when Kerry would have been a junior. However, Smith said he doesn't have a specific memory about Bush.
Based on what Smith recalls teaching that year, Kerry scored a 71 and 79 in two of Smith's courses. When Smith was told those scores, he responded: ''Uh, oh. I thought he was good student. Those aren't very good grades." To put the grades in perspective, Smith said that he had a well-earned reputation for being tough, and noted that such grades would probably be about 10 points higher in a similar class today because of the impact of what he called ''grade inflation."
Bush went to Yale from 1964 to 1968; his highest grades were 88s in anthropology, history, and philosophy, according to The New Yorker article. He received one D in his four years, a 69 in astronomy. Bush has said he was a C student.
Like Kerry, Bush reportedly suffered through a difficult freshman year and then pulled his grades up.
Michael Kranish can be reached at kranish@globe.com.
Toby is sad because he can never again demand that Kerry release his 'questionable' record.
Posted by argus at June 7, 2005 09:16 PMOK. Can we step away from the gripping biography of Bush and Kerry for a minute? Both men represent parties, vehicles for policy. The tragedy of American politics is that campaigns are fought over who you'd best like to have a beer with. In reality, we are voting for tax policies, regulations, etc. How many Bush supporters could accurately describe what his economic policies are? How many Kerry supporters could tell you what his approach to arms control would have been?
Posted by Terence at June 7, 2005 10:43 PMI believe the only way to settle this fairly is to get both gentlemen together to do an Iowa Basic Skills Test faceoff. Whoever wins gets to run the country. Whoever loses gets a titty twister.
Posted by obelus at June 8, 2005 04:59 AMThere was grade inflation during the late 60's so the poor SOB's wouldn't flunk out of college and get a free ticket to Vietnam. This is more likely than either Bush or Kerry becoming more mature.
Posted by Jim S at June 8, 2005 01:45 PMI've stated from the outset Kerry was dumb as well as a lying sack of shit. Thanks for proving me right again.
King