You see..... those military people have to dodge bullets and IEDs. Crooked Lip only has to dodge the truth. So naturally Crooked Lip feels more at ease spewing bullshit than the military people do.
Posted by JollyRoger at June 13, 2005 12:16 PMYet, on MSNBC, the headline reads "Iraq Dilema stymies Dems" . as if they caused it...wait, they did in part. All those Dems who, clearly knowing politics was the game,voted with Bush on Iraq now find themselves trying to reverse the action, with politics still the game. Odd, the GOP doesn't seem to have a dilema with Iraq, they just do what Bush says. Gallup suggests that may become a dilema to stymie the GOP after all.
Posted by T2 at June 13, 2005 12:36 PMAll those scum-bag dems who voted for this war should rot in hell. Of course they are too cowardly now to speak out. They were always cowards and always will be. We on these liberal blogs should pledge NO SUPPORT FOR ANY DEM WHO SUPPORTED THIS WAR. I WILL NEVER AGAIN VOTE FOR ANY DEM WHO SUPPORTED THIS WAR! No to Hillary, Kerry, the Wicked witch of the west - no to all these scum bag cowards.
Posted by jj at June 13, 2005 12:48 PMDear Leader had Iraq in his sights before March, 2002.
In the recent book about February 2002's Operation Anaconda by Sean Naylor, "Not a Good Day to Die", the author notes that much of the Special Operations/conventional forces which the people on the ground in Afghanistan were asking for so as to truly encircle the Al Q fighters in the Shahikhot Valley were denied by the Office of the Secretary of Defense/Central Command. The reason? The forces needed for Anaconda were being warehoused for Iraq.
The result in the Shahikhot? Needless American deaths and the escape of somewhere between 200 to 600 hardened Al Q fighters into Pakistan.
In a recent Q & A, Naylor was even more explicit about the fact that in Jan/Feb of '02 forces were being set aside for the upcoming war in Iraq. Per Naylor, it was common knowledge in the Special Operations community at that time that they were being saved so they could soon start pre-invasion recons inside Iraq. Same idea re: the 101st -- they didn't go in force to Afghanistan in Jan/Feb '02 because they were going to be used early in the Iraq invasion.
Well said jj. I voted for Nader myself. No way I was voting for a me-too warmonger like Kerry. He thought he could ignore the dems' antiwar base? Not too bright.
You want my vote? Stop the warmongering. Stop fellating Ariel Sharon. Support ending this Iraq clusterfuck now.
Can we have a true Dept. of Defense instead of a Dept. of bomb the shit out of third world countries whose leaders don't genuflect before their American/Israeli masters?
Posted by ran at June 13, 2005 01:14 PMCan we have a true Dept. of Defense instead of a Dept. of bomb the shit out of third world countries whose leaders don't genuflect before their American/Israeli masters?
Well, no. Our political classes have decided that it won't sell.
Posted by Matt Davis at June 13, 2005 01:15 PMSounds like it's time for Bush to conduct a perp walk. Bombing the San Francisco Bay Bridge and publicly tossing a few Arabs in the brig or GITMO will bolster those poll numbers just fine.
Posted by steve duncan at June 13, 2005 01:31 PM"Can the Democrats finally grow a spine here and talk about this, as well as dismissing talk once and for all about a draft?"
Fuck you, you Dem-hating prick.
Posted by Sweet Pea at June 13, 2005 02:39 PMIn all of our major wars, this country has gone through long periods of self-doubt and impatience with the progress being made. You're certainly entitled to think what you want of what's happening, but who would it benefit now if we were to withdraw in the short-term or to even announce a timetable for such?
For all you know, a united front from the start might have ensured a quicker and more thorough victory. That's true of domestic civilian opinion as well as of our allies' involvement. But having to contend with Turkish and French intransigence as well as asshole propaganda from traitors here at home has made the work far harder. No question.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 13, 2005 03:43 PMAnd having to deal with lies from our government and closed-minded assholes like yourself has made it damn near impossible for people to see the truth, Toby.
Posted by CapD at June 13, 2005 04:04 PM[W]ho would it benefit now if we were to withdraw in the short-term or to even announce a timetable for such?
Well, at the very least, it would benefit the troops' families. Plus, of course, the troops themselves, who would be less likely to be killed stateside.
What an incredibly stupid rhetorical question that was.
Posted by Matt Davis at June 13, 2005 04:12 PMFor all you know, a united front from the start might have ensured a quicker and more thorough victory. That's true of domestic civilian opinion as well as of our allies' involvement. But having to contend with Turkish and French intransigence as well as asshole propaganda from traitors here at home has made the work far harder. No question.
Posted by Toby Petzol
Typical republican bs from lying buttholes who support the war but couldn't be bothered to enlist.
The Turks, the French, the Germans, and the Russias easily saw through Bush's and your lies; finally the majority of the American public is also closer to seeing the truth.
What guaranteed failure was lying to the people and a complete lack of rational planning. So much for faith-based war crimes and asshole propaganda from Bushistas.
During the daily press conference today, a reporter asked Simple Scotty McClellan to clarify his statement that setting a timetable for leaving Iraq would send the wrong message to the terrorists. Simple Scotty explained that the U.S. military must stay in Iraq to make sure the Iraqi forces are training well enough to provide adequate security for the Iraqi citizens.
That response struck me as odd and phony, because the Iraqi security forces under Saddam's rule were not only well trained enough to protect his totalitarian regime for many years, but they were very effective in suppressing insurgent and terrorist activities within its borders.
(Who would benefit from a withdrawal timetable? The Iraqi people, our soldiers and their families, and our economy.)
Thus, Simple Scotty's excuse suggests that the Iraqis under Saddam did a better job of protecting the country than they are doing under Bush, which is to say that Iraq would be better off today if the U.S had not invaded.
Reconstituting the Iraqi forces with an allegiance to and support from the governing Iraqi body is a political issue that can and should solved internally without U.S. intervention. Since Bush's motivation for invading and occupying Iraq is economic and strategic, the Iraqi forces will never become sufficiently trained to allow the U.S. military to leave Iraq.
"Can the Democrats finally grow a spine here and talk about this"
The answer to that question would be no. They're all Corporatist apologists in D.C. - both sides.
Posted by Tampa Student at June 13, 2005 05:25 PMToby,
Put the blame where it belongs: Squarely on Bush's shoulders. It's not somebody else's fault: It's Bush's and Bush's alone.
Bush:
Didn't send in enough troops.
Didn't send the troops that went in with enough equipment.
Pulled out of the Geneva conventions therefore allowing torture to take place.
Didn't expect an insurgency.
Thought they would greet us with flowers (big Haha on that one)
Bush didn't want a united front. He used the war to divide the country. He didn't raise taxes to pay for the war-he would rather borrow the money from communists then let his friends raid the cookie jar.
The fact that Bush couldn't sell this adventure is his fault but somehow you think that it's the fault of others because they didn't fall for his bullshit.
Well, the fact that you fell for his bullshit is YOUR problem, not ours. Now, go enlist because the military desperately needs your service...Oh, that's right-you won't lower yourself to serve in the military. Might mess up your hair, I guess.
You are a traitor to America. America is no longer a shining beacon of freedom for the world. You and your cadre of true believers have made our country into an international laughingstock.
If you are interested in winning the war, if there is even a chance of winning, the first step would be to remove Jr. from office. He's the one that has done all the dastardly stuff and there is zero chance of this having a positive outcome as long as he is in office.
Posted by ga6thdem at June 13, 2005 05:44 PMwell well, trollToby resurfaces. You and Muckdog are in the very deep minority on this subject (Bush's Iraq Invasion) and every other facet of Bush's miserable, failed presidency. Your input is not important. 41% and diving, Bush is a loser and so are his minions.
Posted by T2 at June 13, 2005 06:10 PMwe must show a united front, bomb the hell of them.
let us join hands and dump into the flames all at once.
no thnaks, i seen that movie. toby you suck. go to iraq, the soldierts need to kick you around.
Posted by jo jo at June 13, 2005 06:15 PMThere he goes again. Toby, as always, mouthing the mind-numbingly predictable wingnut talking points like the mindless moron that he is.
"But having to contend with Turkish and French intransigence". Yea, let's blame the French. That's original. The French saw us entering a world of pain and tried to dissuade us, like a friend trying to get the car keys out of our drunk hands. We fucking well should have listened to them. Thousand upon thousands of people wouldn't be dead and maimed if we had.
"As well as asshole propaganda from traitors". Fuck you Toby, you fat, cowardly, pathetic excuse for a human being. We're the baddest mofos on the planet, right? All the wingnuts think so. We spend conservatively $500 billion a year on our military machine, and what's stopping us from marshall glory is the fact that part of the population isn't clapping hard enough?? Is that the best you have? Better trolls please.
"who would it benefit now". Yea, that's the chickenhawk way of supporting the troops - insist on them staying in the meat grinder so that Dear Leader never has to admit he's made the mother of all fuckups. Supporting the troops means more than slapping a couple of $3 magnets on your SUV dipshit.
Posted by ran at June 13, 2005 07:36 PMBut having to contend with Turkish and French intransigence
This toby has not a clue. I will not defend the French, but the Turks have paid their dues and do not deserve being slighted. The Turks have stood by the allies for a very long time.
Posted by temiz at June 13, 2005 07:36 PMshorter toby: clinton lost the iraq war.
Posted by benjoya at June 13, 2005 07:56 PMas well as asshole propaganda from traitors here at home has made the work far harder
The asshole propaganda here has us winning the war and the insurgents on the run. Run, insurgents, run.
because the Iraqi security forces under Saddam's rule were not only well trained enough to protect his totalitarian regime for many years, but they were very effective in suppressing insurgent and terrorist activities within its borders.
He also knew and groomed the factions it took to make it work. Something the administration has yet to figure out. Of course, how could they. It's well understood by everyone else, but not the reality they choose to invent.
Th lft fghts t srrndr, Bsh fghts t drw, th hjs fght frvr.
[Editor: ignore=off]Then enlist and go fight them Bendito. Get off your keyboarding ass and go enlist.
Posted by Steve Soto at June 13, 2005 09:50 PM? Forty-one percent of the president's own cultists support a partial or full withdrawal
38% of the president's cultists want the dems to restrain the radical right wing of the repub party-- someone should have told them it is too late, the repubs have to restrain their own now
The left fights to surrender, Bush fights to a draw, the hajis fight forever.
And the right?
Oh that's it.
The right sends someone elses children to die for the greater glory of God and country.
How noble.
Posted by at June 14, 2005 06:24 AMToby typically blames others for the illegal war, for which he and his neocon ilk are responsible. Quit blaming others for your failures, Toby.
Posted by roamer at June 14, 2005 07:53 AM