What level of ineptitude, detachment, and intransigence does that take?
Whatever level it takes, Bush has it to spare.
Posted by Matt Davis at June 13, 2005 07:20 PMAfter listening to this particular This American Life, you have to wonder why the hell we are over there in the first place...and wonder exactly who is in charge. You do start thinking "WTF...Let's bring'm on home before we screw it up even more"
I'm From the Private Sector and I'm Here to Help
Contributing Editor Nancy Updike went to Iraq last year to try to figure out what it's like to be a private citizen working in the middle of a war zone. Private contractors are a part of this war in unprecedented numbers, but we don't know that much about the people doing these jobs - why they chose to come to Iraq, and what they're seeing that we can't. Nancy's story won a Scripps Howard National Journalism Award this year.
http://www.thislife.org/
Whatever level it takes, Bush has it to spare.
(Big Grin)
CBS news reported 60% overall wanted the troops home. Sounds good to me.
Posted by phidipides at June 13, 2005 07:23 PMI was asking my roommate, someone who lived in this country and was old enough to remember, when did people start getting upset about the body count during the war in Vietnam and at what number he thought that same sort of feeling would emerge in this conflict. His opinion is that the threshold might be lower now, but he could not support that assertion. As an outsider, I don't know, but it seems Americans have a pretty high tolerance with death.
I remember writing the Irish Government about Margret Hassan, the Turkish government about their truck driver and the Japanese government about the tourist. I watched the videos, and wrote emails.
The memory of that, with what was learned today, gives me more than a few things to think about tonight.
Posted by temiz at June 13, 2005 07:24 PMThey have deep throated levels of incompetence starting at the top. Both have their own styles, but the results seem to be pretty much the same. Only difference is that Cheney You doesn't have a rich, connected daddy to bail his sorry ass out when he screws up.
Except that this time they both have US footing the butchers bill, blood, sweat, and tears.
Posted by Duckman GR at June 13, 2005 07:27 PMProbably the same people that broke that memo in England, The Sunday Times, a division of News Corp. Just like Fox, part of Rupert Murdock's holdings. You want to throw stones at FoxNews here but the sametime you use a sister company's material to make your points. They both operate with the very same directives. Whatever one division does the other mirrors. I'm so happy that y'all finally like News Corp. And whatever other media is reporting is coming from the source the Sunday Times provided. "Fair and Balanced", you guys proved it. Only y'all wont admit it cause that will spoil your fun.
http://newscorp.com/index2.html
http://newscorp.com/operations/newspapers.html
Thank you Peter for proving that Murdoch sees his job differently in this country than he does in Great Britain. Across the pond, Murdoch is gunning for Blair. Over here, he is Goebbels for Bush.
Posted by Steve Soto at June 13, 2005 07:43 PMP-Dippy, couldja write me an email?
Posted by Matt Davis at June 13, 2005 07:51 PMPeter: You realize that to keep broadcasting in Hong Kong and China that Murdoch has acquiesced to Chinese govt controls on content?
Murdoch is a whore, the content on his media outlets varies from country to country and even format to format. See the titillating fare on the US Fox TV network vs the content on the Fox News channel. Although, come to think of it, most of the news "babes" on Fox do look like porn stars.
Posted by Pat M at June 13, 2005 09:02 PMWouldn't a lot of your average pollees consider "until stabilized" and "as soon as possible" the same thing? This poll looks a lot like the silly Annenburg thing that Atrios put up a while ago.
Posted by Brian Boru at June 13, 2005 09:16 PMIf you read the in depth profile in the New Yorker of Murdoch by their media columnist, the basic conclusion was that Murdoch is simply AMORAL. He has NO morals. He is neither right nor left. He does what he has to make his empire grow and increase his power. Pro Labor in England, Pro Republican in US, pro Maoist in China? That is a pretty broad spectrum don't you think? Bush is already elected here so he has less concern over laws affecting his media empire in the US. He got the OK to buy DirecTV which is very anti-competitive from the Satellite TV point of view.
What he does next is anybody's guess, but with advancing age, he is probably thinking about his legacy a bit more and the future of the planet his family will inherit (just wishful thinking?).
Posted by Young Turk at June 13, 2005 09:20 PM
First, 54% of those polled feel that detainee abuse by our troops reflect isolated incidents and not part of a wider pattern
It is not that we are all infallible. If someone close to you get kill in front of you, revenge is the first reaction. I understand it, but that is what the Iraqi feels. I heard from a Vietnam war vet that the MyLay was not one incident but instead was the norm and happened everyday. The difference is that Calley’s groups were caught. Are they Iraqi less human then us? While king george and his English poodle where fixing the war (the 2 Downing Street Memos and no real news) they intensified the bombing of Iraq. As king was saying do not resist, he was killing mercilessly the population. The same one that he so call wanted so call safe from tyranny! Bush instead enslaved a country which was under brutal dictatorship that was installed by his father’ own CIA. I feel it is sad that our young, our future generation has been hijacked by a man who was to chicken to fight and have never been able to run a company without bankrupt it. Daddy and Mommy’s friends always has save little george, even had papers burned for the AWOL, or dismiss inside trading in Texas.
If you have a CHILD in Afghanistan or Iraq, I would be so mad.
I am glad mine are older and have no children. They do not want any. It is almost funny is that their cousins feels the same way as both brothers (father’s) where adulterers and left ours families at the same time.
Temiz; It is because we do not have real news. Today we have to go to England like the Independent, guardian and I am lucky to bilingual. The body count has been reported but once in a while. That is not to say that Vietnam was over 67000 deaths in that war. Today, the numbers is 1703, US with the coalition it is 1888. But with over 12,000 ( only USA)injured destroyed lives as well as their families. If they are National Guard they had lost their medicals.
USA under king george is only for the Cheney, Ken Lay who is a great friend of the family. But deny knowing the guy after the scandal! It is available on freespeech.org.
You can see Moyers talks on media
Well "not stupid" that means that we'll not have your type of Democrats to carry on the parties policies for our kids and grandkids. Thats a good thing, means Republicans are assured of being the majority party for a long time. Low birth numbers, less Democrats.
Posted by peter at June 14, 2005 03:51 AMThose of us who were following the build up to the Iraq war fairly closely realized that it was built on lies and misrepresentations. The American public is now starting to put the pieces together as well and it does not bode well for Shrub and his criminal cronies.
So Peter...when you shipping out?
Posted by weinerdog43 at June 14, 2005 05:00 AMP-Dippy, couldja write me an email?
If it's the linked email on the left, I did so last night.
Posted by phidipides at June 14, 2005 06:38 AMFirst, the mainstream Media is owned lock,stock and barrel by the GOP..quit waiting for them to "Catch On". They already have "caught on" and are concealing it from the public.
Second, regarding Viet Nam comparisons. Unless you are about 40 years old, Viet Nam means very little to you (unless your father is a Nam vet). Do you think they teach Viet Nam War in elementary and junior high? No. Comparing Iraq to Nam is only useful if you are aware of the Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon progression of that War and as I said, unless you are Boomer age, the comparison is just mystery talk for the rest of the public. What ain't a mystery is 1700 dead (in Iraq alone) and the meaning of the work DRAFT.
As I and others have said, the main difference between now and 1967 is the draft. Bring that back and you'll see some action.
Did anybody hear what Cavuto of Fox asked Bush on the air last week? First question was about having better grades than Kerry at Yale. Second question was after praising the strong economy whether he felt Bush was getting a bum rap from the media on the economy. Then the brilliant wanting to know if Bush thought he was going to get his Social Security benefits. And of course the next question was the topper-"Do you think the focus on Michael Jackson has hurt you?" Is this journalism at its most patronizing or what? How about the American dead soldiers, Mr. President. And millions of American citizens eat this botulistic propaganda up. Joseph Goebbels would just love it.
Posted by Bill Trembley at June 14, 2005 09:40 AM"Thats a good thing, means Republicans are assured of being the majority party for a long time. Low birth numbers, less Democrats."
Indeed, Peter, when ARE you shipping out? I have been making the tours of right-wing websites (partly to irritate them with my stickers at sticker-shock.org (yes, that's a plug)) but also to tell them that as recruiting numbers fall, the military is strained, and our soldiers over there are the ones taking the fall for a president too proud to admit he fucked up and didn't send enough troops, it's no longer enough for them to just rant on their blogs.
It's time for them to encourage their friends and relatives to enlist, to post links to local recruiting offices on their blogs and websites, and to seriously consider enlisting themselves.
We have a whole population of people who yammer on in support of an unpopular war, and call those of us who disagree unpatriotic and anti-American, and the time has come for them to lace up their combat boots and go off and get some real-world experience in the desert.
It'd be great if we all started visiting right-wing blogs and sites and asking a simple and increasingly pertinent question, often and loudly: "When are you planning to enlist?"
Posted by William at June 14, 2005 11:25 PM