I think the nurses really deserve a lot of credit. Even after they started winning their initial issue in the courts, they kept the pressure on. In contrast, look at how the CTA folded on the state budget fight just as they were starting to get some traction. I don't entirely fault them for wanting to focus on the ballot initiatives, but in terms of organizing, a rising tide often does lift all boats.
I believe the Democrats' electoral position would have been better last year with a more mobilized antiwar movement rather than a movement on hiatus for the elections.
Posted by James Field at June 21, 2005 09:03 AMThis just in.......
California up for Sale.
Gov. Schwarzenegger has thrown in the towel and offered California back to Mexico for one peso. The Gov was quoted as saying, "If the ignorant people of California want to run this State into the dirt with the out of control spending then screw'em. They now belong to Mexico. See how long they keep their pensions now."
Mexican President Vicente Fox was later quoted on Mexican TV saying, "This is a historic day in Mexican History! We have finally bankrupted California into submission. All American's have 30 days to leave or face a firing squad."
President Bush was asked to comment on this issue during a press conference. His only comment was "Good riddens!!"
Posted by Centrist at June 21, 2005 10:12 AMhow much would we have to pay mexico to take texas back?
Posted by benjoya at June 21, 2005 10:17 AMCentrist displaying his unique brand of centrism again.
What drives your hysterical fear of hispanics?
Posted by muckcat at June 21, 2005 10:20 AMParadox says: "Trying to accommodate thugs and felons only hurts the country, disgusts voters and ultimately makes you losers anyway."
Nice to see there are fighters in CA. The Democratic party as a whole doesn't appear to be made up of fast learners.
Posted by Gail Davis at June 21, 2005 10:31 AMNot at all muck. It's the SPEND SPEND SPEND attitude these idiots in California have and not to mention the massive tax burden the citizens of CA have to put up with to pay for all the illegal aliens that are in CA. It's costing them Billions!
You seem to be ignoring the word "illegal" for some reason.
Besides who else would buy CA !
Posted by Centrist at June 21, 2005 10:39 AMSome are, some aren't. The more entrenched they are, the more beholden to the status quo, the moe they have to risk, and the less they want to fight.
I'm talkin to you Joe Biden. And you, Art Torres. And you, Dianne Feinstein.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning their Democratic bona fides. Just their fire and stamina and, yes, their leadership.
Posted by Duckman GR at June 21, 2005 10:50 AMYou seem to be ignoring the word "illegal" for some reason.
Am I? Did you use the word 'illegal' in your first hispanaphobic comment? Perhaps you can point it out to me.
I did notice where you alluded to Mexicans murdering a lot of Americans under the direction of their president. Projecting maybe?
Besides who else would buy CA !
You mean other than Schwarzenegger?
Posted by muckcat at June 21, 2005 11:00 AMword 'illegal'
You know what I meant. We've had this dance before.
alluded to Mexicans murdering a lot of Americans
Do you take everything so literally? Lighten up.
Posted by Centrist at June 21, 2005 11:07 AMViva Mejico! We stole the state from them and they-re getting some of it back, The Schwartz just doesent fit in here, back to Austria for him!
Posted by at June 21, 2005 11:08 AMI beliee Ah-nuld already owns a big piece of Cali.
Posted by at June 21, 2005 11:16 AMSorry, shoulda been, I believe...
Posted by at June 21, 2005 11:17 AMHey Centrist!
Bite me.
I think you're new to this discussion, the other trolls went round and round during the recall on this, but the fact remains, it ain't the spending pal.
It's the billions that enron & bushco stole that created the first spending "challenges," it's the horrid economy that bush's tax cuts and miserable failure policies engendered, the unemployment that followed and resultant loss of tax revenue and the lost revenue from all the Californian's, residents or military stationed, shipped overseas to fight bush's illegal, ill-considered, and mal-administered war that exacerbated it, and the unfunded mandates from the failure of the bushco "run" federal government-from border security to unemployment insurance to healthcare, that's created this mess.
Illegal aliens do put pressure on the state, but you way overstate their costs, and you ignore the contributions.
So a big Eff You to you. Centrist my ass.
Posted by Duckman GR at June 21, 2005 11:25 AMA failing Governator now uses the "illegal immigrant" card to try to divert attention from his inability to solve the state's complex problems.
Prop 13 reduced the money we need to pay for state services. Old ladies benefitted, but the biggest beneficiaries have been corporations (including the freight rail industry) who pay low taxes on highly valued property (even as corporate stock is sold, since that does not constitute "ownership").
Now the rich state of California has among the lowest-funded schools (35th in the U.S.) and services in the country. No money for teachers, school buildings, roads, firefighters or police.
You don't get necessary services without a source of income.
The Governator's rhetoric did not produce funding for the services we need and it did not protect the schools. It didn't provide healthcare for state residents. So he attacked state employees, nurses, firefighters and police for having healthcare and some retirement benefits -- as if that would solve the state's budget crisis.
Someday, a wise and brave candidate will stand up for increasing funds for services by asking corporations and high-income earners to pay their fair share.
Posted by MS at June 21, 2005 11:36 AMArnold is a wimp. If he really wanted to make a difference in California he would be taking on the prison guards union. The state spends billions to lock up people who shouldn't be in jail. We had a chance to fix the three strikes law, but Arnold fought against it and killed it. So we foot the bill for the excessively long jail sentences for people who committed some horrific crimes as cheating on the DMV exam or shoplifting. Not to mention all of the people in jail for posession of small amounts of drugs. A serious waste of taxpayers money.
As to the undocumented workers, the state's economy would be in serious trouble without them. I challenge the trolls to present any credible studies showing that the contribution to society of undocumented aliens is less than the tax money spent on services for them. And no, money spent on INS and border patrol doesn't count. Truth is that money spent on services for undocumented aliens is less than the economic benefit of undocumented workers.
Posted by Daniel Maskit at June 21, 2005 11:38 AMMS, excellent points. Don't forget all of those rich people paying insanely low property taxes on their mansions. Remember Warren Buffett mentioning how crazy it is that he pays less property tax on his mansion in OC worth over $2 million than he pays on his place in Nebraska (I think it was Nebraska at least) which is worth far less.
Prop. 13 has destroyed our formerly great education system. But so have the prison guards and the push for locking more people up.
Yes, there is a realy problem which prop, 13 addresses, and yes retired people on fixed incomes shouldn't lost their houses because their property values have gone up so much. But why protect commercial property? And why protect people who bought their houses as investments? And why protect people who are able to pay?
Why should my neighbors have an effective lower tax rate because they have lived in their house longer? That just doesn't make any sense. Nor can it possibly be considered fair.
Posted by Daniel Maskit at June 21, 2005 11:44 AMDo you take everything so literally? Lighten up.
ROFLMAO!
This is hilarious coming from a Bu$hCo-vite!
Posted by pessimist at June 21, 2005 11:45 AMDucky from CA I take it. LOL!!
I think you're new to this discussion,
Yep. I've noticed the "discussions" here. Troll this...Troll that..bla bla. If your don't walk in our circle get the fuck out. How hypocritical of a liberal. Sounds like a circle jerk to me.
horrid economy that bush's tax cuts and miserable failure policies engendered
I would say he was stupid for doing the Tax cuts knowing his war loomed on the horizon. But I disagree with your assessment that Federal tax cuts are the reason for CA's problem.
lost revenue from all the Californian's, residents or military stationed, shipped overseas
LOL! You have serious reality issues if you think that is a major factor in CA's budget problems.
http://www.caltax.org/Cauchon-CanCaliforniaMoneyMessBeFixed10-1-03.pdf
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt
Try reading these links and let me know what you think. It outlines the nature of the problem CA has and the cost of the illegal alien problem to CA.
and yes....Center isle. Damn you people are dense to what Center means. If I have to explain it....never mind.
Posted by Centrist at June 21, 2005 12:26 PMDaniel is right. If somebody lives in a $300,000 home or a $800,000 home, that is the value they should pay annual taxes on. It doesn't matter if they bought their home 20 years ago, 10 years ago or last week. Real estate needs to be re-appraised annually for all homeowners and businesses, and taxes adjust accordingly.
Prop 13 needs to go. I hope the Democrats have enough guts to tell Californians this. If Californians want better schools, roads, and high paying jobs, then taxes have to go up and Prop 13 has to go.
Posted by JonQ at June 21, 2005 12:41 PMReal estate needs to be re-appraised annually for all homeowners and businesses, and taxes adjust accordingly
You would have to raise taxes to cover the cost of hiring the thousands of appraisers needed to accomplish this task. Not a sound idea at all. That is why the property tax rate is adjusted yearly. If money is needed they increase the multiplier.
Posted by Centrist at June 21, 2005 12:55 PMI agree that we need to modify Prop 13 although it is a third rail of CA politics. There has to be recognition for the good it does many seniors here if it is altered. Someone has to have the courage to take it on.
Here is a question. Who to go after Arnold?
I like Phil Angelides. He reminds me of Mario Cuomo the year that Mario won in NY (I lived upstate then). Very articulate, very informed, ready, willing and able to distinguish himself. Not possessed of movie star looks, but charismatic in his own way. I would predict in a real debate he would flatten der gropenfuhrer like the big gu in ``The Harder they Fall''.
Any other thoughts about who else? I find Lockyer bland, Westly uninteresting, and while I like the idea of Rob Reiner I am not sure he is ready for political combat. Warren Beatty can forget it--no coherence there as his Thalberg acceptance speech showed, and no big public recognition like der Gropenfuhrer--Beatty has been a has been in Hollywood for a long time.
Posted by calguy at June 21, 2005 12:56 PMno surprise that his numbers are down..what is a surprise to me ...and absolutly amazes me is how the republican party can nominate and elect a clown like that...albeit a wealthy clown..terminator and all...
Posted by dennis at June 21, 2005 01:05 PMYou would have to raise taxes to cover the cost of hiring the thousands of appraisers needed to accomplish this task.
Not True -- County Assessors use a mass appraisal process, not a market comparison process. It's a moot point, anyway -- old time Californians will never give up their Prop 13 free ride.
Posted by ck at June 21, 2005 02:13 PMYou would have to raise taxes to cover the cost of hiring the thousands of appraisers needed to accomplish this task.
Good luck finding anyone looking for a job!
After Centrist gets through evicting all the illegal aliens and their children every available hand in California will be needed to fill the hundreds of thousands of agricultural jobs that the illegals used to do.
Posted by yuckyuck at June 21, 2005 02:21 PMlet's not forget how this whole sorry episode came about - First Bush and Enron conspired to fake an Energy Crisis so Enron could rob the people of California through exhorbitant energy costs. The GOP then blamed Gray Davis for this. Bush then installed, through a recall election, his hand-picked henchman Arnie. Arnie, as it turns out, governs as well as he acts. The people who Bush screwed with the Energy Crisis, and then a fake governor, are now out for revenge. Another failed Bush policy. But now, the public seems interested in actually doing something about it.
Posted by T2 at June 21, 2005 02:34 PMThose articles really don't support your theory Centrist, sorry.
I didn't say that any one of those things was the be all answer, although the enron extortion/con/theft was and is an underlying contributor. But it's good of you to focus on the obviously least significant factor and inflate it to a major factor.
How many billions did enron steal? And who let them do it? As the USA Today points out, the reactionary right winger mcclintock advocated voiding those power contracts Gov. Davis signed under duress. But, to remind you, bush's FERC would not allow that to happen, nor would bush's FERC agree to CA's requests to recompense of the stolen money, anywhere from $9-20 billion dollars. How much was the budget shortfall again?
Nobody's really assessed the true costs of their bush supported gouging of the west for profit and their political power grab, but the number is more then just the billions CA tried to get back.
bush's tax cuts did nothing to stimulate the economy, they only put more pressure on the states, cities, counties, citizens. The whole time, the admin was pushing consumption, and giving tax breaks to generate more supply, when shit was sitting in warehouses going nowhere because people weren't buying. And why not? Because wages have stagnated at best, and when people's purchasing power gets reduced, they buy less, or they buy cheaper. And you know where cheaper comes from, right, wal mart. Which means lower wages, less US production jobs, and so on.
See how that all ties together? The tax cuts created wealth. They didn’t create jobs, or goods, or services. So all that money sits there and does nothing. And in the meantime, employment stagnates, revenues stagnate, real wages stagnate. What’s the budget of the CA Gov’t, $100 billion, mas o mano. What’s the economy of CA, 7th biggest in the world. 6th biggest, whatever. You think that whatever we spend on illegal immigrants, and the fact that your study has 2/3’s of the sample as actual United States Citizens, is what’s breaking the CA piggy bank only shows your issues, not the problem.
Sure Gray Davis and the Lege did a crappy job on some issues. Sure they spend money trying to address problems that the republican controlled federal government ignores because of its profitability paucity. Sure, they aren’t perfect or pure. And sure, our direct democracy initiatives are screwing the pooch even more. But look who has the biggest and best ones. Prop 13. Pure gop populism. Arnold, and his current spate of backhands and handjobs, pure gop pandering. Bash the immigrants, gee, who did that? Oh, yeah, pete Wilson, who went from moderate and reasonable Republican to reaganomics acolyte.
People can only buy so much stuff. And since the gop controlled government refuses to address real problems, and works hand in hand with the corporations to squeeze every last bit from the people that support them, people like you, by stripping away our protections and safety nets (that would be things like legal remedies to corporate abuses and Social Security for instance), by manipulating the markets to raise the cost of healthcare for the benefit of big pharma, and so on. I’m glad you think it’s funny, but having lived through the crap from enron, having paid those extorted gas and electric bills, having known people who were destroyed because of that, I find little humor. Either in your scapegoating, or your blame the legislature game.
Lots of events go into California’s economic situation. But the ones that emanate from bushco are the criminal ones.
And just because you’re a troll doesn’t mean you can’t play. I just haven’t seen anything in your comments that strikes me as particularly centrist. “You would have to raise taxes to cover the cost of hiring the thousands of appraisers needed to accomplish this task. Not a sound idea at all.”
Maybe you should define your version of centrism for us all, so we can better judge for ourselves.
Prop 13 has been a nightmare for California. It needs to go. If seniors are sitting in a $500,000 paid-for home and can't make a 1% annual tax payment on its full value, then they need to sell it. They have to pay for their services, too. There is no free lunch.
The Republicans are the free lunch crowd and we're borrowing from our future. This has to end. I hope Angelides isn't afraid to tell voters what has to be done. People respect the truth. Tell them Prop 13 was a bad idea, and has hurt our future.
Posted by JonQ at June 21, 2005 03:41 PMTell them Prop 13 was a bad idea, and has hurt our future.
And our present!
Don't forget to tell them: your income taxes are higher to keep property taxes on mansions lower. Keep it simple.
Posted by Daniel Maskit at June 21, 2005 03:55 PMWe had a chance to fix the three strikes law, but Arnold fought against it and killed it
Jerry Brown and a lot of Dems tried to kill it too.
Posted by benr at June 21, 2005 04:17 PMI did read somewhere that the terminator went for the special elections because the Dyebold machine will have to have a paper trail for 2006. I guess he is forcing to get his way, another election, another $80,000 BECAUSE THE MAN who did meet with ENRON Ken Lay that shows as much he care for the Californians! Remembers Hitler was not a German born an Austrian.
He is a terminator as well as pays are, nut never worried as his salary was inflated for his lousy movies
Duckmand, excellent response to our latest troll. It always amazes me that people like Centrist come here and try to peddle their bs. I guess they just can't help themselves.
Posted by Judith at June 21, 2005 09:55 PMIt's very simple. The Independent/Centrist is a person that holds political views that are balanced on both sides of the isle. He/she is not a person that is complacent and sits in the corner with an "oh well" attitude. A Centrist might support stronger immigration laws, bigger military, stronger criminal codes and also support welfare programs, a progressive tax base, environmental programs and pro choice to name a few. A Centrist is willing to listen to both arguments and make a rational decision. Someone on the far Right/Left will automatically consider a person in the Center there enemy because they don't agree with them on all issues. It's the "if you not with us your against us" attitude that has put this country in the mess it's in today. No one can compromise and the fine people that blog here are guilty of that. Everything is a conspiracy with you.
Posted by Centrist at June 22, 2005 05:32 AMNo one can compromise and the fine people that blog here are guilty of that. Everything is a conspiracy with you.
Everything's not a conspiracy...but even paranoid people have their enemies.
Get a thicker skin and jump back in. If you are truly a centrist it will come out as you blog along here. I, for one, enjoyed reading and thinking about what you were saying, even though the majority of it doesn't appear to be too awfully well thought out, and comes directly from the Neo-con Automated Load-o-crap Response Machine.
Let's see, you indicate it's the Mesicans fault, don't raise taxes, must end pensions (and keep the money?). What is centrist about that? You don't want to lynch the Mesicans, so you're a centrist? I guess time will tell.
Centrist,
My results for the test you linked were;
Left/Right = -5.25
Libertarian/Authoritarian = -6.10
From the examples that were indicated it seems I fall right about even with the Dali Lama. Not bad company as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by muckcat at June 22, 2005 09:17 AMDali. Hell I was his Caddy!
Posted by Centrist at June 22, 2005 10:39 AMDali. Hell I was his Caddy!
So on your death bed you will recieve total consciousness.
So at least you've got that goin' for ya!
Posted by muckcat at June 22, 2005 11:00 AM"They ignored it all, fought like hell and are taking Arnie down."
Beautifully put. Yes, Ahrnold and his campaign attack dogs hardly know what him 'em. Just shows that sometimes the simple truth can come out, despite the ever more credulous media.
Posted by baked potato at June 22, 2005 02:40 PM