I decided a few days ago that was the most likely scenario. Great minds think alike, Steve; so do we.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 6, 2005 04:42 PMHow much is the WH paying Judith Miller? Is she another reporter on the payroll? Steve, you may be onto something that makes more sense than Rove leaving himself vulnerable to prosecution. Come to think of it, Rove never leaves his fingerprints on anything.
Posted by Judith at July 6, 2005 05:57 PMBolton just makes sense. As much as I'd like to see Rove in jail he's too smart. This whole thing sounds like something Bolton would do. Punish those who contradict him. If Bolton takes the fall, Bushco can withdraw his name and save face for the UN spot.
then Bush can pardon him & recess appoint him ambassador to France.
I have been thinking about Bolton a lot over the past few days as well, seems as though Rove would have to have found out through someone very close and involved either at State, NSC or the VP's office. I think Cheney knows all about it as well. But I never would have made the Miller-Bolton connections, but it sounds brilliant.
Don't forget, Steve: Wilson lied to the media about what he uncovered regarding Iraq's attempts at purchasing the yellowcake. And he reported evidence bolstering the claim that the Iraqis did make attempts to do so in his assessment to the CIA. That is, he wrote one thing and said another.
Wilson's got a big axe to grind and he lied to the American people. Go read the Senate Intelligence Committee's report. Joe Wilson is a liar.
Posted by Toby Petzold at July 6, 2005 06:24 PMLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Lied to the American people!!!!!!!!! You are confused. That is Bush Jr.!!!!!!!!
Man, the talking points the GOP operatives are sending out are really, really bad. Really, nothing but gibberish.
Posted by Ga6thDem at July 6, 2005 06:31 PMThis cabal may be broader than Miller-Bolton-Rove. I suspect that the 'White House Iraq Group" (WHIG), which has a large cast of BushCo players, and was charged with controlling the Iraq/WMD/Terrorism ties may be involved in this Plame disclosure.
The Special Prosecutor issued subpoenas for WH records, Air Force One Transcripts, and has interviewed lots of figures in the administration.
Criminal conspiracy laws apply to this kind of thing - whether before or after the fact.
I'm hoping, anyway....
Posted by JimPortlandOR at July 6, 2005 06:33 PMToby, Your ravings are becoming (more) incoherent, but even if what you're saying about Joe Wilson were true, which it isn't, it does not excuse the intentional uncovering of a covert CIA agent now does it? Mere vindictiveness shouldn't be a motive to undermine national security. Because if it were, it could possibly be construed as treason.
Posted by Oaklander at July 6, 2005 06:41 PMThis probably all fits under the umbrella of a conspiracy to "fix intelligence."
Surely Bolton is a key conspirator since he was the Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security. Then consider two facts. First, his track record of making up WMD claims about the administration's enemies (he falsely claimed Cuba has bio-weapons). Second, using the intelligence agencies to spy on his opponents. He must have had a key role in making sure their bases were covered on the Iraq/Niger yellow cake claim. When Wilson undermined their claim, the retaliation was in typical Cheney/Rove/Bolton style--brutal, punishing retaliation aimed at complete personal and professional destruction.
It seems there is little doubt of the possibility and probablity of Bolton's culpability.
Posted by Jesusland Joe at July 6, 2005 06:49 PMyes. please see my post on "Treasongate Part IV" earlier today. The link between Cheney, who assigned Wilson to Niger, and Bolton are clear. I wonder about Bolton's hand in the original forged Yellowcake doc's.
Posted by T2 at July 6, 2005 06:53 PMMatt, you did call it, I looked back and checked. For me, I can trace my suspicion back to a digby post on Saturday when the seed was planted about Bolton.
I've been waiting for something to surface about this, but it seems all we have still is that Bolton had means, motive, maybe opportunity in the form of the NSA docs being withheld. We only know those docs MAY include info on Wilson and his particulars. As far as I can tell, there's no one saying definitively that Wilson was one of those citizens being monitored. Believe me, I want the investigation to go this way, but at this point it's conjecture until those documents are released. If they pull the Bolton nomination, we’ll never see those docs. And I’ll believe the lack of a recess appointment at this time means they don’t want to stir the worms until after Bush is back from Yurp for a day or two. This trip’s been hard work; let the guy get a nap, he's got owies, apparently.
But from what I've read, the only party fingering Rove specifically as the source is O'Donnell.. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it he who told us who Cooper's notes would tag? Did Newsweek say the notes said it was Rove? Even they and Time said the notes confirmed the source, but didn’t say the source was Rove. Is O’Donnell trying to ride this wave, a la JeffyLube, or does he really know something? If so, has he testified yet, or is he scheduled to testify?
I hate to say this, but it's all circumstantial when it comes to Bolton. Face it, all we know is what "people close to the case" have leaked. And I think each of them have an agenda. Not to say that Bolton is unlikely; he’s connected to Italy by Ledeen, whose daughter, IIRC, was one of the original policy policia in Bagdhad. My belief is that we find out who forged the Niger documents, we’ll have the string that unravels the entire sweater.
I’m with ya, Steve, but I’m a vampire. I want more red meat. (I gotta tell ya, though, the cole slaw is fantastic!)
"Wilson's got a big axe to grind and he lied to the American people. Go read the Senate Intelligence Committee's report. Joe Wilson is a liar."
Better yet Toby, why don't you cut and paste that part of the report for us? Love to see it.
Posted by Judith at July 6, 2005 08:05 PMOnly a republi-con idiot like Toby would try and throw the whole mess back on Wilson. There's no crime coming from his beloved administration.Oh,no, it's all Wilson's fault. Give us all a break, Toby. There's been a crime commited here and it's about your fucking beloved party,not about Joe Wilson,ok? Can't spin this one, shithead.
Posted by sf at July 6, 2005 08:33 PMWhen I think of Judith I think of Israel, Likud, Neocon and invading Iraq. Now, when I think of Judith I also think of Israel, Bolton and the UN. Judith knows a lot of things that I would like to know.
Posted by ken melvin at July 6, 2005 08:54 PMtoby's just over trying to bounce back from getting banned over at Atrios' place.
Pay him no mind.
Posted by Duckman GR at July 6, 2005 09:28 PMWhere hasn't Toby been banned except for here.
Posted by Judith at July 6, 2005 11:28 PM& why?
Posted by idiosynchronic at July 7, 2005 04:55 AMComic relief.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 7, 2005 06:01 AMTobytroll and MuckTroll represent a window into the depraved narrow minority viewpoint and as such are useful in small, infrequent doses. Like one post per day, max.
Posted by T2 at July 7, 2005 06:38 AMIt is also likely that Bolton had access to this information through Frederick Fleitz, who was shared between Bolton and CIA's non-proliferation group (where, presumably, Plame also hung out before her career was ruined). And we know from Bolton-related testimony that Fleitz was happy to participate in Bolton's abusive behavior.
And one more detail. Recall that the memo that claimed that Plame had suggested Wilson for the trip came from someone at INR, State Department's intelligence shop. Now, the content of the memo suggests the person had ties at both INR and CIA (if the person was in on discussions about who to send). And the CIA was able to discredit the memo immediately, because they knew the person who wrote it was somewhere else when the actual meeting took place. Is it possible (likely?) that Fleitz or one of his staffers was the one who wrote that memo?
Posted by emptywheel at July 7, 2005 07:28 AMToby,
I too am wondering exactly which part of the Senate Intelligence Report you are referring to. Here, have a look yourself:
You wouldn't, by chance, be referring to the opinion "additional views" by the partisan GOP members of the committee, would you? Have you, by chance, read what Rockefeller, Durbin, and Levin had to say about that?
Please cite specific statements where Wilson "lied".
And then if I could play devil's advocate for just one second, please tell me that even if Wilson lied about what you stated, how that changes the fact that someone in this Administration willingly broke the law to out Wilson's wife, a covert CIA agent working on WMD networking and proliferation, all as a deliberate act of revenge against Wilson (which seemingly kind defeats the purpose of having a "war on terrorism", don't it?). And before you say that Wilson was lying about Africa, please keep in mind that the very next day AFTER Wilson's NYTimes July 2003 editorial, THIS ADMINISTRATION came out and admitted that Wilson was correct in that those 16 words in Bush's SOTU address were fallacious and should not have been inserted.
I patiently await your answer.
Posted by MisterOpus1 at July 7, 2005 08:49 AMMany of us journalists believe Miller is a CIA journalist, meaning the CIA set her up as a journalist and has always been on the CIA payroll, and gets assignments on demand because of an arrangement between the NYT corporatocracy and the powers that be, whether via Bilderberg or PNAC or whatever.
My observation of her work makes me think she is not a real journalist, for many reasons.
This is nothing new. Google Project Mockingbird, I think it was called when it was a formal thing. Rolling Stone had a thorough article on it in the '70s or early '80s. Then, Congress said they couldn't do that anymore, just as Congress said the CIA had to disband its proprietary covert airline, which was called Air America, if I remember right.
But, as many sources tell us, the CIA instead greatly expanded its covert role in commercial airlines (Evergreen, Southern Transport, etc, etc) while closing Air America to achieve the appearance of the opposite.
The same is true in newsroom. Officially, Mockingbird ended, but in reality, the CIA journalist operation was expanded. It operates in conjunction with the MK Ultra mind-control, psy-ops, etc., also officially ceased but never really ending under other auspices: behavior-control techniques. Newsrooms are important
Posted by Tom at July 7, 2005 02:59 PMMany of us journalists believe Miller is a CIA journalist, meaning the CIA set her up as a journalist and has always been on the CIA payroll[...]
That's very [interesting], Tom, because the only way your view of Miller could be proved right is if you or someone like you outed her as a CIA agent. And wouldn't that be ironic?
Again, won't you people please spare the rest of us your manufactured concern over Valerie Plame's identity? You can't possibly care, except insofar as you think this is The Smoking Gun That Will Finally Put Karl Rove Away Forever and Then Shall Unicorns Prance and Rainbows Reign.
Posted by Toby Petzold at July 8, 2005 11:25 PM