Well, with democratic leaders meeting with the chimporer over nominations to the Supremes, I can only hope the meeting went something like this. "Mr. President," says Democratic Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., "we would hope you give consideration to judges with proven records of fairness and judicial temperament from the bench." Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., stands and passes a folder containing several pictures the pretzledent thought only possessed by the Saudis, and the records of testimony of several members of the putzledents administration from the Valerie Plame Grand Jury investigation. "We would hate to see these documents come to light" continues Senator Reid, "at a time when some in your administration seem to be bearing intense scrutiny from the media."

They must come up with a story as to why Plame's connection to the CIA is relevant to showing the "falseness" of Wilson's account. Because why else would her job ever be part of Rove's conversation? So far no real attempt at an argument has been made.

It's also a problem that Wilson's account of the Niger uranium wass accurate, as far as we know----what's the "false story" that Cooper needed to be warned off from?

where is the damage report ? how many agents were killed or imprisoned because of the leak ?

Mid-day CNN News anchorwoman referred to the Rove matter twice as a SMEAR campaign by the Democrats. All the folks here salivating over the Rove mess better snap out of it. As long as the GOP has Complete Media Control, the American Public will be fed as much bullcrap as can be telecast. A Smear Campaign - that's what it is when a Federal Prosecutor uncovers evidence of GOP criminal activity, or at least perjury. We are about to see the Spin of all Spins.

where is the damage report ? how many agents were killed or imprisoned because of the leak ?

My souces tell me close to 22, with at least another 15 unaccounted for. This goes deep.

Anyone able to get C-Span? Scotty got his ass handed to him again.

OK. Now I'm confused. Are conservatives now arguing that Iraq was trying to get uranium from Niger? Because the train has left the station on that one. But nothing they says holds up even by their own logic unless you believe that point.

Fire Rove? You can't fire a god. They just fade into mythology as time heals the wounds of false belief.

I hate to break it to you but Karl Rove is going no where. The repugs control every branch of the gov and the media. As much as I would like to see him in cuffs it's not going to happen.

Whore Deborah Orin was on Hardball last night and she had a list of things Joe Wilson had lied about. (They seemed like flat-out fantasy to me) Yet, her charges were not disputed by Matthews or E.J. Dionne, although E.J. kept saying that Wilson was not at issue in this case.

Obviously, she had gotten her talking points.

It doesn't matter what Wilson said, or if he "lied" - it's not pertinent to the case, and it isn't why the CIA requested the Justice dept to look into Plame's outing.

But re: this one point - that Wilson lied - what is being said is that the op-ed Wilson produced is at odds with what was ACTUALLY in the report he submitted.

And the Senate report on Intelligence, it is said, zeroed in on that one point, to specifically criticize Joe Wilson.

I'm wondering if THAT particular point is true - though again, it doesn't matter to the case against Rove.

This is from the Hardball transcript:

What has come out pretty clearly so far, I think, is—there is an issue of whether Karl Rove told the truth and the whole truth. But what's more important is, it is clear that Joe Wilson didn't tell the truth. We have a bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report that says, on virtually every point that Joe Wilson made, starting from denying his wife had him sent on the trip, which turns out to be not true.

MATTHEWS: Right. She did.

ORIN: She did. And to claiming that he found that there was no ties with Iraq and that he reported that, which he did not report. He reported, if anything, the opposite.

To claiming that he reported there were forged documents, which was not true, because he never even saw the documents. So, Joe Wilson's credibility is seriously in question. And what we now see is, what Karl Rove appears to have been doing was to be pointing out to “TIME” magazine that Joe Wilson could not be trusted, rather than trying to get even with Joe Wilson.

And it is sort of fascinating, because, you know, for a year, the press reported Joe Wilson's charges. And then, when the Senate Intelligence Committee said they were all false, it didn't.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You know, the old argument in politics is, if there's something—if there's a shot that's unfair against you, you'd better damn well correct it. Why has it taken until now for the truth to come out from the other side, from the White House side, the explanation as to what these conversations—E.J., pick up here.

It seems to me that there's either something really big here or not. There's a mountain here or there's a molehill here. If it is a mountain, it means that the president of the United States went to war on false pretenses and his vice president or whoever else had something to do with it. The CIA had something to do with this, because they let the word out that there was a nuclear action going over in Iraq, and there was not. And, in fact, they punished the person who put the word out.

DIONNE: Right. Well, let's be clear. Joe Wilson...

MATTHEWS: If it is that serious—is it that serious?

DIONNE: Well, first, attacking Joe Wilson right now, Joe Wilson is not the guy under investigation. The issue here is not what was true or false about what Joe Wilson may have said. The issue here is, did somebody break the law and disclose the name of a CIA agent?

I'd really love to see some timelines and charts showing the connections writ large for the not-too-bright American public. Some parts of this whole story are just too ludicrous--like the idea that you aren't identifying someone if you say that they are a famous person's wife.

The problem with zeroing on Wilson and calling him a liar is Barbro Kilpatrick, Ambassador to Niger at that time, also came to the same conclusion BEFORE Wilson.

Part II concerns Mr Baradi of the UN who used much stronger language than Wilson in declaring the Niger documents forgeries.

They can try to to smear Wilson again but unfortunately for the White House he has an ace up his sleeve. 2 aces named Kilpatrick and Baradi.

As for Plame busting the move to get her husband the job, that kind of discounts Wilson's years of experience in the Middle East and Africa. It also puts Shrub at odds with Poppy Sr who issued a glowing endorsment of Wilson a few years back.

Oh what a tangled web..

What am I missing here?...I don't know how Wilson is becoming the centre piece here (beside the fact that the RNC is going to spin it that way)...seems to me the point is simple..."Beam Me Up Scottie" told us two years ago that Karl Himmler was in no way the leak...that's nonsense...and, the Pretzledunce said he'd fire any WH staffer that was the leak....so get the axe.

Further to yesterday's post Steve...I only caught a snippet, but Wolf Blitzer showed a clip of reporters grilling Scottie again today...any worry among us that this would quickly die is unfounded...as many here have stated, it won't be an obvious factor (lying to go to war...or sleeping during 9-11) that will kill Junior...it appears something of seemingly less significance (not that outing a CIA agent is insignificant) is going bury the Chimp....but...
I'm still worried that the snake oil salemen are using this as a deflection from Iraq...Rove has an agenda..he's to wily to make a blunder...what it can be is anyone's guess!

If Rove did it, which is becoming increasingly clear, then W knew it and approved it. Period.

I bet bunnypants peed in his pants when that question was asked. As usual, he showed his contempt by not answering a legitimate question. Being president is hard work George, and sometimes you have to answer hard questions.

Phidipides, love your idea. What's a little blackmail these days.

Cheney energy meetings: stonewall
Anthrax: stonewall
Osama: stonewall
Delay: stonewall
TANG: stonewall
Plame: stonewall
Yellowcake statement: stonewall until Hadley took blame and got promoted
Abu Ghraib:stonewall
Gitmo: stonewall
JD Guckert : stonewall

Ever notice when they are caught they just clam up and wait for everyone to quit asking?

teflon -- but maybe for once this dog has legs --life might be a little hotter, but i still don't know if it will ever stick.

Murray Waas reports that Novak spilled his guts to Fitzgerald (authenticity questionable).
Don't know how much damage the "smear" will do on the public ... haven't they heard this song and dance before?? e.g. Richard Clarke et al

The one thing very different about this case is that Bush, for once, said something unequivocable and unspinnable. When asked if he'd fire anyone who had a part in leaking Plame's identity, he said, "Yes." He's a very slippery dude, almost always sticking to a talking point that leaves wiggle room. But this time, he's caught. Fire Rove or he lied. Simple enough for anyone to understand and clear as the English language can be. It's not the end-all of it, but it ties him in very strongly to what's going on.

Part II concerns Mr Baradi of the UN who used much stronger language than Wilson in declaring the Niger documents forgeries.

Actually, Joe Wilson didn't ever see any documents - they didn't surface until Oct 2002. What he did say is that it would be impossible to hide a transaction of that size and there was now way that this could of been happening without someone having some evidence of it. As Laura Rozen said, 500 tons is a huge amount of yellowcake:

You know, 500 tons of yellowcake is a pretty startlingly large amount. That's about 250 elephants worth of yellowcake. Even if it was very very dense, how many elephants could you fit on a C130? Like, three maybe, right? It...

Posted in War and Piece on July 8, 2004 04:13 PM

More here.

Thanks, Mary for getting that straight.

My question is why was Wilson picked what were his qualifications? Also is Plame was a covert agent why was she working at CIA headquaters in Langley? If she was then isn't that wrong becuase the FBI jurisdiction is inside the US. Maybe their will be hearing and then will see is we can get another waste of taxpayer money so the democrats can have their chance at revenge at Rove for orchestrating the win of President Bush to 2004. Oh well its only money ts not like its needed elswhere. I just wonder if Rove is proven not guilty or no charges are filed who the Democrats will jump on next? I know get a jump opn 2008 blame who ever the GOP nominee is right?

do we have a list of the members of the White House Iraq Group? I recall Karen Hughs was involved...

My question is why was Wilson picked what were his qualifications? Also is Plame was a covert agent why was she working at CIA headquaters in Langley? If she was then isn't that wrong becuase the FBI jurisdiction is inside the US.

Sigh. Wilson was posted to Niger early in his career at the State Department. His area of expertise was Francophone Africa, where he was the Ambassador to Gabon from 1992-1995. Gabon and Niger are next door to each other. He speaks French, which is the official language of Niger. He has been travelling and studying in the area for 30 years, he knows many government officials, and he has a whole raft of diplomatic skills. He was supremely qualified to investigate the possibility that Saddam had tried to purchase 500 tons of yellow-cake ore from the French consortium that controls all export of the mineral.

Plame was posted to Langley to take a desk job dealing with her area of expertise -- WMDs -- as a change in her career from being deep undercover. Her former job as an undercover agent pretending to be travelling for a CIA-created front company involved setting up a network of agents and contacts. The fact that she returned to Langley did not mean that it was time to expose her former activities to the world. Once Novak outed her, every clandestine spy agency in the world plunked her name and the name of the now-exposed company she worked for into their databases to see who she had been meeting with regularly during her years of travelling the world under cover of being just a businesswoman.

Her whole network was immediately compromised, and no doubt her good friends and agents abroad were immediately rolled up and given the Gitmo treatment to find out what they told her. Rove's petty revenge trip undoubtedly led to the murder of a number of CIA assets. He should be sharing a cell with Aldrich Ames.

My question is why was Wilson picked what were his qualifications? Also is Plame was a covert agent why was she working at CIA headquaters in Langley? If she was then isn't that wrong becuase the FBI jurisdiction is inside the US. Maybe their will be hearing and then will see is we can get another waste of taxpayer money so the democrats can have their chance at revenge at Rove for orchestrating the win of President Bush to 2004. Oh well its only money ts not like its needed elswhere. I just wonder if Rove is proven not guilty or no charges are filed who the Democrats will jump on next? I know get a jump opn 2008 blame who ever the GOP nominee is right?
Posted by Avenger D-22 at July 12, 2005 08:34 PM

You're a fucking idiot.

Right?

White House Iraq Group

* Karl Rove
* Karen Hughes
* Mary Matalin
* Jim Wilkinson
* Nicholas Callo (Leg. Liaison)
* Condi Rice
* Stephen Hadley
* Scooter Libby

Courtesy of Ret Lt Colonel Sam Gardiner.

T2, I consider CNN 1 degree removes from FOX. Sorry I have listen to them far too long to not hear the same intone. They are not as obvious as Fox but beat the same drum.
BriVT, go to the After Downing street.org Started that I post earlier. It will take you some time to read it all Just go to the key documents on the site and read “Plame leak” It is all there.
See unfolds how all the lies come together; Plame, DSM, WMD………. All for a stupid ignorant and arrogant man who wanted to attack Iraq from day 1. Been so ignorant he used his father’s administration, but in his hunger for power took the worst that could be America downfall.
My question is, did Wilson, who was given Ambassadorship by king george’s own father, would be sent to Africa at the expenses of the government only by his wife demand??????????? Like Deep Throat mentioned follow the money, I say put the dots together.
I also saw today that Rove and Novak have been friends in sordid affairs. Those 2 makes Tony Supprano looks like a poster boy!
“Rove fired from Bush Sr's '92 campaign over leak to Novak. Karl Rove was fired from the 1992 re-election campaign of Bush Sr. for allegedly leaking a negative story about Bush loyalist/fundraiser Robert Mosbacher to Novak. Novak's piece described a meeting organized by then-Senator Phil Gramm at which Mosbacher was relieved of his duties as state campaign manager because "the president's re-election effort in Texas has been a bust." Rove was fired after Mosbacher fingered him as Novak's source.
We have to keep this story alive. Tonight John Stewart, the daily show was great. It was more real new that any other corporate networked we have in this country today.

JC; who lied at the end? Where are the WMD? I did read that they were destroy when Saddam‘s son in law defected in the 90’s and told that he knew because he destroy them himself. Do you believe your senator? Who control all part of government? Changes the law to control? Did you ever listen to them on C-span? You would die listening to those we elected. Some are so stupid it should make everyone sick just listening to them?
Bush was the worst that our country should ever have as a leader. He was put there by the Daddy’s administration because they knew he was too stupid. He never went without Cheney! He did not even know his history without condi telling him where he was, Karen Hughes had his national guard records destroy? Well here comes Jesus Bush and that is too much. He created the Apocalypse.

So basically Wilson was a diplomat not an intelligence agent. Why didn't the CIA put a trained agent in country to back up or even contradict him. If I recall correctly Wilson said he just talkied to some people and drank lemonade. Did he forget that people lie and that nations don't have freinds they have interests. Also it seems from Plames own statements that they had already made up their minds that the Nigerians wern't selling yellow cake to Iraq. Isn't that a problem our entire intelligence commmunity seems to be guilty of. Having preconceived notions and then trying to prove their thinking by using the intelligence not interpeting the intelligence. Oh well obviously the left sems less concerned with truth than a political grandstanding. Wilson bottom line was not qualified becuase he did not go in open minded and had no intelligence gathering training or ability. knowing French is not a lone qualifier if it was France would have know to guard their border along the ardennes and Belgium in 1940.

Oh well obviously the left sems less concerned with truth than a political grandstanding. Wilson bottom line was not qualified becuase he did not go in open minded and had no intelligence gathering training or ability. knowing French is not a lone qualifier if it was France would have know to guard their border along the ardennes and Belgium in 1940.

Are you absolutely out of your mind? Have you always been slow like this?

"False, False, False" so says Bush. Nixon said something simular. But with Bush, this is on a grander scale (reprehensible). Bush must get his denial statements (all too often) from Saddam. Totally unacceptable and anti-American. Rich people do that to keep a rich following. Bush scares me - half of what happens in his admintration is swept under the rug (classified).

SF-312 Rove missed a rule.