Chertoff's no idiot. But he's a judge; he's got no background for this kind of thing. That makes the people who chose Chertoff idiots.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 15, 2005 11:05 AMLet's hear your suggestions on how to protect US Citizens.
Posted by LJS at July 15, 2005 11:20 AMGotta win that last war! That's the party with ideas!
Charles
Posted by charles at July 15, 2005 11:20 AMMatt - I don't have any skill in national security, but I sure wouldn't cut funds to mass transit just as the terrorists have become fascinated with blowing up trains and buses. Only an idiot would do that.
Posted by Marie at July 15, 2005 11:28 AMI've got a good idea. Get an administration that gives a damn about anything but covering their asses and pillaging the economy. That would help.
All the talk about changing this and doing that equate to loss of personal freedoms for more and expanded groups of Americans. With the idiot son of Bush at the wheel guding the ship of state like a drunk teenager at a go cart track, the terrorists won their victory. The economy is a wreck, democratic principles are flushed, liars and incompetents run the country for their own profit. The terrorists won. That's all, nothing more than that.
Posted by phidipides at July 15, 2005 11:33 AMphidipides -- agree, but we can't get rid of those thugs overnight. Public transit users can either accept that they aren't important enough to protect or look for some things they can do on their own that will reduce the risk.
Posted by Marie at July 15, 2005 11:59 AMGet an administration that gives a damn about anything but covering their asses and pillaging the economy.
Why, that's just crazy enough to work!
Posted by benjoya at July 15, 2005 12:40 PMWe should stop looking for bombs and start looking for friggin' terrorists!!
Posted by at July 15, 2005 01:12 PMWell, I would reject the notion that terrorist just recently became fascinated with trains and buses. Indeed, the history of terrorist attacks is replete with train and bus attacks going back decades.
Cutting transit funds might still be stupid, but it's not stupid because terrorists all of a sudden discovered that they could target mass transit.
Your assertion that "[terrorists] like those things that they view as having symbolic value" also directly contradicts the idea that they would just shift to a new fixation like trains.
The one really true thing here is that terrorists like "things that go 'boom.'" They happened to hit trains and buses this time; to generalize from that, and assume that they are "fixated" on trains and buses, is every bit as much "fighting the last war" as is focusing on preventing another 9/11. At least if they take out trains and buses, our chances of losing 3k in one shot tend to go down.
I'm not saying that I think cutting those funds is a good idea. But your rhetoric about what motivates terrorists' choice of targets confuses me, and your "clear plastic carryalls" policy seems like it would be near-universally unpopular.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 15, 2005 02:10 PMLet's withdraw troops from Iraq, curtail support for Israel, rescind the Patriot Act, shut down Gitmo and apologize for starting an illegal war. We do that and I'm sure all those AQ and Islamic radicals will say, see, the Americans have learned their lesson and aren't such bad people after all, so we can lighten up on them.
Posted by Mr Damage at July 15, 2005 02:12 PM...stay off the fucking trains...
Posted by kingweasil at July 15, 2005 02:25 PMMr. Damage,
Better yet, let's invade Syria and Iran without the U.N and no plan beyond they'll welcome us with flowers -using way too few troops without proper supplies, claim we're democratizing them while dealing with dictators in other countries, bomb a few more civilian hospitals and schools, and tell the Isalmo-fascits we're going to make them all christian. Then we can murder a few more CIA agents by outing their front company.
Now, what other plans do you have?
Posted by phidipides at July 15, 2005 04:42 PMp-diddy, that may be the best plan EVER! you should seek out paul wolfowitz; career opportunities like this don't show up every day.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 15, 2005 04:51 PMI'm thinking it's time to go poke China with a pointy stick and see if it'll drop 16 tons on top of us. Since they're only armed with a banana, you see.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 15, 2005 05:48 PMI'm thinking it's time to go poke China with a pointy stick and see if it'll drop 16 tons on top of us.
I work with an otherwise very nice guy who follows Drudge and Fox News, and he was telling me of reports via Drudge that a highly-placed Chinese general was advocating precisely that--China nuking our asses.
That would be bad.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 15, 2005 05:54 PMAw now Phil, you must take me for some neo-con warmonger. Not me, baby. No siree. I think we should get out of the Middle East altogether and leave them work out their own problems while we undetake a crash program to develop alternative energy sources (nuke, wind, geothermal, stem cells). I think we should finally apologize to Iran for the CIA overthrowing Mossadeq and installing the Shah, and tell them we accept at face value their assertion that they're developing nukes for peaceful purposes. And we should tell Syria hey you guys can do what you like in Lebanon, after all, it's your Sphere of Influence, and we're hands off from now on. And as for the aforementioned CIA, hell's bells, that agency should've been abolished years ago! What are those thugs and assassins and agents of US imperialism? DIdn't they intro crack cocaine into south L.A.? That's a fact! Good riddance to the CIA, I say. Like I wrote to Senator Church years ago: you guys didn't go far enough!
Posted by Mr Damage at July 15, 2005 06:22 PMMatt, I read that today from a more reputable source, and yes, it is truly frightening.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 15, 2005 06:44 PMInterestingly, Drudge seems to have left out the "if the U.S. messes with us..." part.
Crazy Drudge. It's almost like he's not an objective, professional journalist.
Who knew?
Posted by Matt Davis at July 15, 2005 06:51 PMiamcoyote,
Not to dwell on that link, but such events would prove the raptureites (i.e. WWWIII starts in the middle east soon) wrong.
Just my take.
Posted by sage at July 15, 2005 08:17 PMThat's WWIII of course.
(I don't even watch wrestling!) LOL
Are we all crazy. Stop terrorism? You have got to be kidding. As the terrorists just showed the world, you can strap explosive on your back and blow people up. Look at Israel. Have they stopped their people from dying? They have probably one of the better security systems in place, and it does not stop the individual terrorst from killing people. You cannot protect everyone and everything all the time. All you can do is try to make things more secure, but that is no guarantee against a terrorist attack. Until we are willing to do what some of the above posts have suggested, we are doomed to attacks from this point on. The seeds are Government sewed long ago are now coming to harvest.
Posted by Judith at July 16, 2005 06:47 AMThat should read "the seed our Government sewed long ago are now coming to harvest."
Posted by Judith at July 16, 2005 06:49 AMActually, Judith, that should be "sowed."
It's a peeve of mine...
Posted by iamcoyote at July 16, 2005 07:25 AMIamcoyote, I do not function quite up to par before that first cup of coffee.
Posted by Judith at July 16, 2005 07:42 AMSadly, Judith, the grammar/spelling nazi in me goes 24/7. I just can't help myself. But no harm, no foul; I'd rather people say what they think than not say anything for fear of typos. Except Toby, of course, since he can't think at all.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 16, 2005 08:04 AMMatt, I read that today from a more reputable source, and yes, it is truly frightening.
China nuking us is no real problem. As I remember from my early school days, all you have to do is "duck" under your school desk and "cover" your head with your arms! I guess you're screwed if you don't have a school desk in your car or at home when the bomb drops. But it's my understanding that Homeland Security is quickly helping America take the lead in school desk protection devices. I'm glad to hear this, especially since the ports are still wide open.
It always amazes me that it was liberal academics who possessed the science and and apptitude to design and build the bombs, as well as all the cool weapon systems in the arsenal. Without us they're fucked.
p-diddy, that may be the best plan EVER! you should seek out paul wolfowitz; career opportunities like this don't show up every day.
I tried. I couldn't pass the IQ test. Anything over 65 and non-drooling gets the applicant considered a liberal sympathizer by these guys.
Posted by phidipides at July 16, 2005 09:26 AMDidn't mean to imply that there was anything new about terrorist attacks on buses and trains. Hell, there isn't even anything new about using terrorists techniques to defeat an enemy. What I was pointing out is that the latest incarnation of terrorist warriors aren't all that creative. When they find something that works, they stick with it until it is more trouble than it's worth.
Judith -- thanks for your comment. The defeat of Germany in WWII didn't destroy all the Nazi's. It just reduced the number of them and stripped them of enough power to do harm.
Posted by Marie at July 16, 2005 10:37 AMIamcoyote, actually it should have read "seeds" also. No problem, I make a lot of grammer mistakes, but it has never stopped me from voicing my opinion. No harm done. What do you expect of an artist type?
Posted by Judith at July 16, 2005 11:14 AMWhat I was pointing out is that the latest incarnation of terrorist warriors aren't all that creative. When they find something that works, they stick with it until it is more trouble than it's worth.
Well, I can certainly agree with that. The problem with our homeland security plan is that
a) our most expensive security initiative is a useless war
b) the administration thinks paying for things with money, instead of money predicted by the Laffer Curve, is unacceptable
My only point is that neither of those profoundly screwed-up administration idiocies came from Chertoff.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 16, 2005 11:41 AM