I had a hunch this guy was in on it....he is a loose cannon, with a horrible history. Time to shut him down
Posted by Parallax at July 22, 2005 03:46 PMI would say that, if they're pushing the tempo on the Roberts nomination to evade questions about their own criminality, Dem Senators should inform them that the they won't hesitate to impeach Roberts if the administration goes down. Seriously.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 22, 2005 04:04 PMWell, considering the open questions as to who authored the state department memos on Wilson and why, Bolton's involvement becomes even more interesting.
Posted by Jonathan at July 22, 2005 04:04 PMUnlike vetting fake documents for CBS, just because you read that story in the blogosphere doesn't make it the truth. First off there is no proof that ANY crime was committed and its a LONG stretch to include Bolton in the mix. I might be wrong but this sounds like some Howard Dean wet dream if you ask me. But don't let me stop you from convicting Bolton of another made up crime, you already have a good track record: Cheney, Delay, Rove. Anyone want to bet that Bush gives him a recess appointment?
Posted by Cyber Sarge at July 22, 2005 04:21 PMWell Sarge, I require my President and his cabinet to hold themselves to a somewhat higher standard than actual criminal activity. Maybe I'm just silly that way, but if you want to lead a great nation, perhaps you should consider.. you know, standards?
Now, I know it's not a GOP talking point yet, but Valerie Plame was covert, and she was outed. A crime has probably been committed and it is now almost certain that Rove at least violated his security contract (which, btw, is also a crime).
Whether a prosector can indict is another matter. But I'll draw your attention to the fact that the complaint was referred to the justice department by the CIA.
Posted by Stupendousman at July 22, 2005 04:37 PMThanks Cyber Sarge, I'll be saving your exoneration of Cheney, DeLay, and others for future reference.
Posted by Steve Soto at July 22, 2005 05:07 PMSarge, I get the feeling that Rove doesn't want the spotlight on Bolton just yet. I hear the Chinese are clamouring to get him appointed, though, because they're all ready for "reform" to begin. That in itself makes me uneasy.
But seriously, putting aside whether what Rove and Libby did was an indictable crime, do you think leaking the name of an employee of the CIA as an act of political payback was an appropriate thing to do? Is it acceptable to you for people with access to secrets vital to the security of your country to not accidentally, but deliberately give a name that would immediately be run through travel records of countries hostile to the US? It doesn't matter whether she was behind a desk for 5 years or more; she had been involved in building up networks around the world for 20 years, and all those operations would have to be scrubbed. Do you think someone who did this in a time of war should continue to be trusted with national secrets?
Whether Rove goes to jail or not is beside the point; he admitted that he'd been spreading her name around like a cocktail party rumor. He has proven himself to be reckless with government secrets. Why would you want him to continue having access?
Posted by iamcoyote at July 22, 2005 05:22 PMBolton disappeared from the face of the earth when the Plame affair blew up in the administration's face. It's now becoming clear that Rove is not going to be the only one going down. Don't expect to see a recess appointment and don't expect to see Bolton paraded before the Senate again.
Posted by Ron In Portland at July 22, 2005 05:50 PMTPM is reporting that the NYT has a story today saying that Bolton did not disclose giving testimony to the Plame Grand Jury, though David Shuster said yesterday on Hardball that Bolton did testify...
Posted by Robert Jacob at July 22, 2005 06:12 PMPlease write down my comments and remember them. That way when November 6th 2006 rolls by and the Dems lose a couple more Senate seats and some more in the house you'll have them for reference. Does the DNC leadership really think they are just one scandal away from taking back the House and Senate? Try putting forth an agenda that people will support and maybe they will have a chance. I repeat: "Anyone want to bet that Bush gives him a recess appointment?" Anyone?
Posted by Cyber Sarge at July 22, 2005 06:20 PMHey, Sarge, I'm really curious as to your answers to my questions. Truly, I'm interested in your views about why you think Rove shouldn't be held accountable for his reckless endangerment of national security.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 22, 2005 07:15 PMThis reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons where the kids are up in the treehouse and they have a chalkboard out, trying to diagram the conspiracy behind their parents' "disappearance."
Bart: So finally, we're all in agreement about what's going on with the adults. Milhouse?
Milhouse: [steps up to blackboard] Ahem. OK, here's what we've got: the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people --
Bart: Thank you.
Milhouse: -- under the supervision of the reverse vampires --
Lisa: [sighs]
Milhouse: -- are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner. [sotto voce] We're through the looking glass, here, people...
Heh, heh. I love that stuff.
Heh, heh. I love that stuff.
Yeah. Easier than loving your fellow man.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 22, 2005 07:30 PMCyber Sarge:
What exactly is the GOP agenda on the economy?
On Iraq?
On health care?
And go ahead and point me to Howard Dean's comments where he says Democrats are one scandal away from taking back the House and the Senate. I very well could have missed that.
Posted by Steve Soto at July 22, 2005 07:50 PMI'm supposed to take directions in philanthropy from Matt Davis? That's pretty perverse, dude. I cannot think of a single thing you've ever said here that was unashamedly positive. With you, the only joy is in hatred or cynicism.
Posted by Toby Petzold at July 22, 2005 07:51 PMAnd days when you aren't here.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 22, 2005 08:06 PMWatch as the Amazing WonderToby spins a strawman out of thin air! Gasp at the irrelevance of his arguments! Laugh as he trips stupidly on his ridiculously huge clown feet!
Oh Toby, you crack me up. Thanks for the giggle.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 22, 2005 08:08 PMCotote, If there have been charges filed against Karl Rove I am not aware of them. Are you? That also goes for Cheney, Rumsfield, Bush etc.
Steve, No Howard Dean did not say that they are one scandal away from winning elections, it's the mindset I see from them. No agenda, vitriol ("I hate Republicans"), and the "scandal of the week." If one time a Democrat can hold a news conference on something positive I would have a heart attack. Trust me, things are not that bad in the world today. This is NOT the worst economy since the Great Depression, we don't want socialized medicine, and Iraq is moving along (albiet with some civil unrest at this time).
Posted by Cyber Sarge at July 22, 2005 08:09 PMIf there have been charges filed against Karl Rove I am not aware of them. Are you? That also goes for Cheney, Rumsfield, Bush etc.
I'm sure you'll be dropping back in when those charges are filed, eh? Nice talking to you.
Posted by Matt Davis at July 22, 2005 08:13 PMSarge, but that wasn't my question. And you still haven't answered. I'm asking your opinion (your own) on a person (anyone) who pushes the name of one of our intelligence assets into the public sphere. Do you think it's a good thing or not and should that person continue to have access to state secrets? Whether it's technically a crime or not. Really, I'm curious about what you think.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 22, 2005 08:23 PMAnd days when you aren't here.
Snap!
Posted by iamcoyote at July 22, 2005 08:25 PMI think Cyber Sarge and Bones are the same person. Same writing style and the same evasion/aversion to backing up his points with facts.
Posted by sage at July 22, 2005 08:26 PMYou answer your own question there Coyote. Do I think someone who has questionable integrity be allowed access to classified material? No I don’t. As far as the “Plame game” goes the special counsel has not indicated that Karl Rove has broken a law or is the target of an investigation. All we have heard so far (if you know more please give), is the world according to Joe Wilson. Joe Wilson is not an investigative body, so far he is just a ranting husband. As far as never coming back, well that is up to the web host. I like debating you guys and I try not to go to personal attacks. I give him/her credit for not booting someone for having a different opinion. If one of those people I mentioned is arrested and perp walked I will eat a big heaping steamy pile crow. I will also admit it here in this forum.
Posted by Cyber Sarge at July 22, 2005 08:54 PMSarge, I'm asking your opinion, yet you don't seem to have one of your own. It's a simple question, do you think that someone who has proven himself to be reckless with classified information, as Rove and his lawyer have admitted Rove has done, should be further entrusted with national secrets? I'm not asking whether a crime has been committed; we won't know until Fitz passes down his indictments, obviously. I'm just wondering, are you saying that as long as Rove isn't arrested, it's okay that he pushed a story about a US intelligence asset into the public arena? Really, I want to know how you rationalize this to yourself; I want to understand.
At this point, Joe Wilson does not matter, he has no power here, he's not directing the investigation, as you well know. You demean yourself by continuing to trash him.
Finally, you might want to check your meds:
As far as never coming back, well that is up to the web host. I like debating you guys and I try not to go to personal attacks.
WTF are you babbling on about? Just a warning: once you start down the paranoia path, it's hard to get straight again. Please, get help.
Posted by iamcoyote at July 22, 2005 09:30 PMjoe wilson is a hero. he's just not the embodiment of christ my boy george is.
Posted by poppy bush at July 22, 2005 09:51 PMAs Steve Clemons says,
“Cover-up? Certainly. Conspiracy? Looking more like that every day.
What did the President know and when did he know it?
What did the Vice President know and when did he know it? “
Bolton was involved, that is why king george wanted to reward him with a higher position. If you lie to help me I will rewarded you. Follow the promotions and you get the idea of who covered his ass.
I think it was from the beginning. Or maybe they started it. I google and came to this site that gives you so many site about different political problems we face now. Go there and check it out. It is like an encyclopedia of all articles on this administration.
Pass It On
http://www.hocodemocrats.com/hocoPassItOn.htm
We are living in a strange time with a president who was not elect by the people the first time, and probably not the 2.
He ran on so call bring back “Integrity” to the White House, but at the end he will be known as the most corrupt president ever in American history.
July 22, 2005
JOHN BOLTON TESTIFIED BEFORE GRAND JURY IN VALERIE PLAME INVESTIGATION
David Schuster of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews made a whopper revelation about grand jury testimony in the Valerie Plame-outing investigation: John Bolton has testified about the top secret document that Colin Powell had aboard Air Force One.
TWN has confirmed with MSNBC that it it standing by its story.
Shuster's report yesterday:
DAVID SHUSTER, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A witness who testified at the grand jury and lawyers for other witnesses say the memo was written in July of 2003, identified Valerie Wilson, also known as Valerie Plame, as a CIA officer, and cited her in a paragraph marked S for sensitive.
According to lawyers, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and undersecretaries, including John Bolton, gave testimony about this memo. And a lawyer for one State Department official says his client testified that, as President Bush was flying to Africa on Air Force One two years ago, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer could be seen reading the document on board.
The timing is significant, because the president's trip on July 7 was one day after Ambassador Joe Wilson's column was published criticizing the administration. In other words, on July 6, Wilson's column comes out. On July 7, the State Department memo about Wilson's wife is seen on Air Force One. And, on July 8, Karl Rove had a conversation with columnist Robert Novak, but says it was Novak who told him about Valerie Plame, not the other way around.
Rove also says he never saw the State Department memo until prosecutors showed it to him. Six days later, on July 14, 2003, Novak published the now infamous column that publicly identified Valerie Plame, Wilson's wife, as a CIA operative.
Grand jury witnesses say a call record kept by Ari Fleischer shows Novak placed a call to him during this period. And lawyers for several witnesses say their clients were questioned by investigators about Fleischer's conversations. Fleischer, however, did not have the power to be a decision-maker in the administration. And White House observers point out, he wouldn't have likely taken it upon himself to disseminate the State Department memo. In any case, Fleischer and his lawyer have declined to comment.
As far as Karl Rove is concerned, a recent line of questioning about him suggests the grand jury may be pursuing issues related to possible inconsistencies. For weeks, Karl Rove's lawyer has been saying the now deputy White House chief of staff testified his 2003 conversation with “TIME” magazine reporter Matt Cooper was about welfare reform and, only at the end of that discussion, did Rove talk about anything else.
Matt Cooper recalls leaving Karl Rove a message about welfare reform. But Cooper testified that, when he and Karl Rove spoke, Joe Wilson was the only topic of conversation. Cooper says this contradiction with Rove, combined with his testimony that Rove told him about the Wilson's CIA wife, prompted a flurry of grand jury questions. And Cooper told NBC's Tim Russert the grand jurors themselves played an active role.
This takes us back to whether it is possible that John Bolton's shop played a role in promulgating not only the Niger/Uranium story inside the State Department but in its cozy relationship with the Vice President's office tried to help undermine Joe Wilson by exposing the identity of his wife.
The John Bolton and Fred Fleitz rap was that they constantly crossed lines of appropriate behavior and conduct.
More on this -- as it develops.
-- Steve Clemons
Posted by Judith at July 23, 2005 03:58 AMAnyone want to bet that Bush gives him a recess appointment?
Posted by Cyber Sarge
I don't think a recess appointment of Bolton is likely to happen now. Of course, there is always the "arrogance factor" of your leader. Go ahead Bush, make my day, appoint Bolton.
Posted by Judith at July 23, 2005 04:08 AMHey Cyber Sarge:
Stretch this.
It's a very detailed description--based on the SSCI report, not any partisan source--of why Bolton would be interviewed by the GJ if they're looking into how the memo was developed.
Bolton may actually be the smoking gun, here, you see. Because if Bolton was involved in producing a memo like that, after Dick Cheney had already called for Wilson's head, then it probably mean Fred Fleitz was at least aware of the memo. And Fred Fletiz, you'll recall, worked with Plame over at CIA.
Bolton gives you a very clear path of information:
Fleitz to Bolton to INR Memo to everyone on AF1
Oh, and it gets better!! If BOlton was involved in that memo--which was dated June 10--it means he knew of Plame's identity for a month before the Rove leaks.
And before you continue to argue that Bolton didn't testify, consider that someone on CNN yesterday was trying to convince Carville that he was mistaken and that Bolton hadn't testified. Call me crazy, but I suspect that Carville is the journalist with THE BEST SOURCE on this investigation.
Posted by emptywheel at July 23, 2005 06:13 AMGiven the role his own wife played in the White House Iraq Group, and the fact that Mary Matalin also testified to the GJ IIRC, you are correct Empty Wheel.
Posted by Steve Soto at July 23, 2005 07:37 AMJust like Bones tried to ignore me, so Cyber Sarge tries to ignore me. It's the same troll I tell you.
Posted by sage at July 23, 2005 08:08 AMFollow the promotions and you get the idea of who covered his ass.
This is a great statement. Follow the promotions...follow the promotions!
On the flip side of this, look who has left or been gently pushed out and perhaps it is there where we might find someone with just a smidgeon of conscience left in them..O'Neil, DiIullio,Whitman, Powell, Tenet(although he got the freedom medal)Pavitt, Ashcroft,and Ari Fleischer. However some of these people were more active participants in the Bushco crime family than others. It is from this list that I think you will find the ones talking to the special prosecutor and telling the truth (perhaps some might be looking for immunity for their testimony???)
Brings to mind these Clash lyrics.
Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know.....
Also, and it might have been mentioned, was an interesting tidbit I remember reading about Judith Miller. After just a gentle slap on the wrist and a lame page A-10 "apology"(without ever mentioning her name) from the NYT for pimping her award winning series,"Best WH stenography for Fictional pre-War propaganda", instead of being say... fired, she was "rewarded" by the NYT with coverage of the UN and that rascal Kofi Annan at her request. Isn't it a coincidence that moustache vigilante man Bolton was to be rewarded by Cheney with a job over there. Wonder if Judith knew that Cheney wanted to reform the UN and that is why she requested to go over there to get in on the action early...plus she wrote a few "hit" articles for the WH on Kofi I think?
Did I mention how much I dislike this group of ethically and morally bankrupt (and soon to be indicted and convicted criminals) running this country.
Sage, sorry to disappoint you but I just found this site last week and have never gone by the handle "Bones." I didn't realize you were waiting for a response to:
"I think Cyber Sarge and Bones are the same person. Same writing style and the same evasion/aversion to backing up his points with facts."
But here goes: A lot of Democrats and Lefties are throwing out lots of charges on every Republican leader. So far none have resulted in a single arrest, conviction, or sentence. As far as the Bolton-Rove-Plame-CIA-Niger-yellow cake "scandal" is concerned, the only person who is talking is the guy who published a book. He also told the Senate Investigation Committee that he took some "literary license" with some of the facts in his book. Now what other facts do you have? None since the independent council hasn't presented it's results. Everything said with regards to this affair is pure conjecture and not based on "fact."
"I just found this site last week." Posted by Cyber Sarge
Just our luck.
Posted by Judith at July 23, 2005 10:05 AMGee, sarge, you still haven't answered my question, huh? One could assume, then, that you do put partisan politics above national security, right? Of course, we already knew that, didn't we?
Posted by iamcoyote at July 23, 2005 10:34 AMWell, duh iamcoyote.
Posted by Judith at July 23, 2005 03:57 PM