Has the Bush administration left our nation with no better options ...?
Well, he could pick fights with Venezuela, China, North Korea, Pakistan, ...
Posted by pessimist at August 22, 2005 11:16 AMThe Sunnis deserve to have their faces spat on. Maybe the lousy bastards should have voted earlier this year when they had the chance ---instead of aiding and abetting murderers.
Posted by Toby Petzold at August 22, 2005 11:21 AMThis is the very notion of quagmire - that our removal from the scene is impossibile - our removal will cause even worse catastrophe than what is currently occuring day-in-and-out.
I read Juan Cole's 10 step recommendation, and I was unhappy with it as well. I don't think anyone has a solution; and that's what causes this mess to fully match the definition of quagmire.
Posted by idiosynchronic at August 22, 2005 11:22 AMThat's right, Toby. Nevermind the details of why the Sunnis abstained. They should all be shat upon because they didn't vote.
It's worked so well in this country, why not?
Posted by idiosynchronic at August 22, 2005 11:25 AMLarre, but they made this second deadline!!! - that's all the bushies wanted anyway - being the shotsighted nitwits they are.
Posted by jj at August 22, 2005 11:50 AMOkay! Let's see...The Shia's hate the Sunni's and want to install a fundamentalist govt...The Sunni's are afraid of being left out of Iraq's future...and the Kurds don't really want anything to do with either group. Wouldn't it be expedient to declare openly that the U.S. will pull out at a certain date once the infrastructure (elec, water, etc.,)is in place; giving the plan a face and dates. Then, we do pull out accordingly and can then say that we removed Saddam and left the country in reasonable health. If the Iraqis then want to go war with each other then so be it. We absolutely cannot do better no matter how long we stay there.
Posted by Jim at August 22, 2005 11:52 AMit's not the sunni's fault..this mess is ours..we have made a grievous miscalculation regarding iraq...and the middle east in general..i read where bush is going to give a number of speeches likening iraq to world war two..i don't mean this to be sarcastic..gw bush is a crazy man and it's time the american people thought about removing him from office..he has done the country great harm and continues to do so...republicans.. trolls..democrats..everybody has to begin to see what we've let these guys do ...we need a plan to get out of iraq...i don't mean pick up and leave tomorrow..but we need a coherent policy of withdrawal...the american people deserve it...our resources ..our children..the future..we just can't keep going on and on letting these guys having their way..
Posted by dennis at August 22, 2005 12:03 PMdennis, you have to understand - the bush cult and their media whores only believe in their bush god. All that matters to the likes of Toby and the other members of the bush cult is that their master is obeyed. the bush god is infallable - anyone who disagrees is a traitor. We have to realize - we are dealing with I'd say about 35 million bush nuts in this country. BUT they control the media - so how do we get rid of them and fast?
Posted by jj at August 22, 2005 12:41 PMHow could the constitution NOT be Islam based? We made sure the Sunni's were not invovled (not directly mind you, but the CPA was definitely Shiite-friendly). Did we expect the Shiites to embrace the secularity of the Sunnis? Did we think the Iranian Shiites would have no influence over the Iraqi Shiites?
As the fundamentalists here in America have proven, religion belief is a stronger bond between people than nationalism. The Shiites feel they are Shiite first, Iraqi second...afterall they have been Shiites for many more years than the notion of an Iraqi state has existed.
Posted by the professor at August 22, 2005 12:42 PMJuan Cole and the White House have one huge unmentioned problem. No matter their delusions on how long the USA can stay in Iraq; the US Army is on the point of collapse. The Reserves have dried up. Enlistments are down. Troopers in an elite 82nd Airborne battalion are being shipped to Iraq as prison guards. Lifers will retire rather than face their third and fourth tour in Iraq. Only stop loss will keep them in the Army. A revolt by the troops is not impossible when faced with a never ending war that is all for nothing.
Posted by Jim S at August 22, 2005 12:44 PMTHIS IS WHAT THE BUSH GOD SAID JUST TODAY. NOW - IF YOU COME ACROSS ANYONE WHO BELIEVES A WORD OF THIS, YOU CAN BE SURE YOU'VE COME FACE TO FACE WITH A CULT MEMBER. Just smile, shake you head and slowly back away from them...........
"Iraq's leaders are once again defying the terrorists and pessimists by completing work on a democratic constitution. The establishment of a democratic constitution will be a landmark event in the history of Iraq and the history of the Middle East," he said in a speech to about 15,000 veterans.
"All of Iraq's main ethic and religious groups are working together on this vital project. All made the courageous choice to join the political process. And together they will produce a constitution that reflects the values and traditions of the Iraqi people," said Bush.
Posted by jj at August 22, 2005 12:50 PMjj....all i can hope is that the american people..the majority who elected al gore..are beginning to see the fraud and his minions for what they are..they've made an awful lot of mistakes and we have paid dearly for them..after 9/11 i believe a lot of people wanted to believe in bush even though it was against there gut feeling..he has squandered it all..he has no political capital..he has no credibility...and people are starting to get sick and tired of his shit..and all his lies....and i'll say it again..that man is not right in the head..there is something fundamentally wrong with him
Posted by dennis at August 22, 2005 12:52 PMDear All,
The misuse of "lose" and "loose" is everywhere in the mass media and (gasp!)
"Lose" means to misplace something, some in second in a competition, fail to
keep or maintain (as lose one's balance).
"Loose" means, free of restraint, not chaste, not tight, to untie, to free.
The two are NEVER interchangeable.
Posted by . at August 22, 2005 01:07 PMAll, let's give kudos to the anonymous grammarian, for effort anyway. Unfortunately no one in this topic has used "lose" or "loose".
Posted by the professor at August 22, 2005 01:14 PMJim S - I agree with you. Juan Cole is wrong on this one - he just wants the US to be "responsible". But Juan also says:
"On the other hand, the gradual radicalization of the entire Sunni Arab heartland of Iraq stands as testimony to the miserable failure of US military counter-insurgency tactics. It seems to me indisputable that US tactics have progressively made things worse in that part of Iraq, contributing to the destabilization of the country.
So those who want the troops out also do have a point."
bush has created a disaster and the sooner we can safely get the troops out TOTALLY the better. And once the withdrawal begins, lets start the impeachment process!
Posted by jj at August 22, 2005 01:16 PMdid you vote in 2004 toby? will you be voting in 2006. you'd better cause if you dont i'm going to spit in your face.
Posted by at August 22, 2005 01:48 PMJust curious anon -- how do you "some" in second? It could be argued that your goof was just a typo -- the same as the goof you pointed out.
Sometimes preview helps when posting, but mostly try reading for the content and allow that we all make typing mistakes
(except maybe for me in this one post :)
Posted by dorita at August 22, 2005 02:44 PMWe have broken something that we can't fix. It was done with lies and malice, and even the best of intentions can not put this egg back together.
All that we can do is to prolong the suffering and the dying.
The best we can hope for, is to not do this again. That can be ensured by trying all of the players in this mess for war crimes.
Posted by m at August 22, 2005 04:49 PMBush just confirmed today (Monday) that US troops may be in Iraq at their current strength for the next four years. Jeez, George, is that possibly the end of the oil?
Posted by tempus at August 22, 2005 05:25 PMWhoops, George just counted and figured he won't be president in four years. Pity.
Posted by tempus at August 22, 2005 05:32 PM" It "would formalize an already autonomous Kurdish state in the north"
Tank parking is a sport in which contestants see how many tanks they can parallel park in as small an area as the rules of the game allow.
The Turks will be playing this game soon and using their extra bonus cards to take multiple turns.
Posted by Daryl at August 22, 2005 06:01 PMDaryl you are so correct. I know that it seems counterintuitive to support the Turks in this, but they have been our allies and taken such a blow over so many years by the PKK. I know the Kurds want a homeland, but they will not stop in Iraq. They will continue to demand parts of Turkey and Iran. Both countries' people will pay the price. The US policy has essentially created a "country" that has never existed. All of this will destabilize the entire area.
What burns me up is that there IS a fairly (now) stable democracy in the region and it is Turkey. Hell, at least they have had a female PM (something that we here in the US have yet to achieve the equivalent of). And what does the US do to them? The same thing this country has always done -- use them and ignore the fact that they have been more progressive. I mean who is really backwards here? Pakistan had a female leader before the US. And the Turks have too. The problem is the US.
Posted by dorita at August 22, 2005 06:23 PMGotta love it when self-righteous assholes critique the grammar of others and don't even bother to proofread their own crap.
Nimrod.
Posted by muckcat at August 22, 2005 06:28 PMThanks . . . muck . . . for the weird compliment, sort of like how much I liked the Brittney(?) redue on Rock Star INXS last week. Creepy because I liked it so much.
Posted by dorita at August 22, 2005 06:47 PMfor the sticklers -- redeaux
bow low to the grammaritan
Posted by dorita at August 22, 2005 06:51 PMSo we get to babysit the sunni triangle forever. OH boy
Posted by emel at August 22, 2005 08:45 PMSteve:
I am beginning to think that Toby is actually your "bete noir". If this is not true, you have to leave your children with Newt Gingrich for a weekend.
Posted by tempus at August 23, 2005 08:35 AM