HOW MANY F***ING TIMES CAN I SAY IT. FORGET THE DEMS - THEY ARE OUR ENEMY JUST LIKE THE GOP. WE HAVE TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK OURSELVES. DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ON THESE SCUMBAG DEMOCRATS!
Posted by jj at September 21, 2005 08:41 AMHas there ever been a more gutless and brain dead bunch of Democrats, than those who are in Congress right now?
Well, probably -- but you'd think this bunch would have gotten some inkling of clue by now. You can never trust BushCo -- they will betray you at every opportunity, and use the cover of bipartisanship to stab you in the back. The only thing that slows them down is smash-mouth push-back.
With this endorsement, Leahy says that it's okay to withhold documents, it's okay for stealth judicial nominees to refuse substantive answers, and it's especially okay for Democrats to roll over and play dead.
And the party insiders wonder why the grassroots Democrats are pissed . . .
Posted by ck at September 21, 2005 08:45 AMI've said it before I'll say it again.
This country is going to go through a much darker period with the Republicans at the helm before enough people are moved enough to do anything about it. John Roberts will be the next Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. He'll probably serve in that capacity for 30 years or so. And he'll turn out to be as much of a conservative ideologue as many here suspect. Hopefully at some point during that period the tide will begin to shift. But anyone who thinks this country is ready to revolt against where the Republicans have us heading between now and the 2006 or even 2008 elections is fooling themselves. It's gonna take some more suffering before that happens.
Posted by muckcat at September 21, 2005 09:00 AMSouter was a stealth candiadate and became a thoughtful moderate justice(not liberal as the media insists on reporting). We knew Thomas was not qualified for the job and he got in anyway, thanks to idiot democrats.
Roberts is as good as we are going to get with Bush and 55-45 in the Senate.
The democrats are a bunch of losers until they can win an election. They will win an election when they get a spine.
Posted by buffalo soldier at September 21, 2005 09:05 AMBob Schrum wrote on Hardblogger, 9/20 -
"What Pat (Buchanan) obviously hopes to salvage is a Supreme Court that will roll back fundamental rights and overturn Roe v. Wade. If that happens, red states will turn blue and the era of Republican competitiveness in national politics will be over."
But, how long will that take?
Has anyone thought that maybe Rove and Bush sense the walls are crumbling and are scrambling to destroy and line the pockets as much as they can in a "what the hell" attitude"?
Posted by jra at September 21, 2005 09:15 AM9/11..iraq..katrina..thats a lot of suffering..3 strikes they are out..they have fucked us over real good in just 5 years..a reckoning is at hand and it won't take 30 years...
Posted by dennis at September 21, 2005 09:35 AMIt's not a matter of trusting Roberts. It's a matter of trusting Bush. They are saying that they trust Bush to have nominated someone qualified to serve as Chief Justice. And Bush is only trustworthy in the sense that you can virtually count on his decisions being based on repugnant values and ignorance of or aversion to facts.
Posted by Raenelle at September 21, 2005 09:35 AMEh, Roberts seems like a good choice. He doesn't seem as conservative as Scalia. He may be another Souter or Kennedy. Good for Leahy, though. Where's DiFi on this? I bet she goes YES, too.
jra said Has anyone thought that maybe Rove and Bush sense the walls are crumbling and are scrambling to destroy and line the pockets as much as they can in a "what the hell" attitude"?
Bush is a lame duck President and never has to run for a political office again. I doubt he'll reign in spending. Cutting spending and/or raising taxes, would create a recession at this point, so why not let it happen during the next President's term? That seems to be the plan, but Greenspan isn't playing along. Yesterday's rate hike may signal that the Fed is concerned that all the fiscal stimulus created by deficit spending will lead to inflation down the road.
Posted by muckdog at September 21, 2005 09:43 AM(Greenspan will be gone in January, so that'll be interesting).
Posted by muckdog at September 21, 2005 09:44 AMDennis - we will have Roberts for 30 years!
Look - I hate the GOP but anyone who works for or supports the dems are just stupid suckers. Don't support either party - they have both betrayed America. That's the reality we have to face and then go from there.
Posted by jj at September 21, 2005 09:50 AM30 years is a long time and a lot can happen..and change..you never know...i refuse to accept that there are no differences between the parties..there are major differences in what the govenment should and can do for it's people...the last 5 years are a very clear illustration of what the republican party is all about..clearer then ever befor...if al gore had been inaugurated as he should have been ..rightfully so..the world today would be a very different place...
Posted by dennis at September 21, 2005 10:00 AMRoberts may not turn out to be as horrible as we fear -- but that's not the point.
Gutless, spineless, brain dead Democratic insiders is the REAL problem. The Beltway Dems seem to think that they are still a majority party, and Newt Gingrich is a loud mouthed back bencher. The pathetic clueless stupidity of this bunch of undead politicians is truely breathtaking. Hell, even John Kerry is showing more signs of intelligent life than this bunch of jellyfish.
Posted by ck at September 21, 2005 10:16 AMmuckcat has the basic idea, we're a lot worse off in may ways because of Bush and most people are beginning to see it to an extent. On the other hand, the average voter faced with working, taking care of their family and other duties doesn't have the time to really think about the bigger picture, namely that this unhappy time that we're going through isn't just bad luck, but rather the result of bad polices that will have to be dealt with in the fotrseeable future. As long as a person's private life holds together reasonably well, the high gas prices, tight job market and the general sense that things, as a whole, may be getting worse will not translate into a general questioning of Republican policies, though Bush himself will remain personally unpopular. It will take a lot more pain at a deeper level before the question goes deeper than persoalities and gets into policies.
Posted by rlp at September 21, 2005 10:18 AMIf Roberts has been telling the truth (if he's been saying anything at all), then he's pretty moderate.
A Stanford student wrote a paper on the justice-picking process. A lot of the equations in there go over my head, but it looks interesting. You'll need Adobe or a suitable substitute to read it.
Here's an idea: in the future, have an independent, neutral third party (there's already a couple of them, but I can't remember what they're called) rate all Congressmen and all potential justices based on liberal/conservative actions and ideologies. Add up the whole of Congress' rating and find either the mean or the median. The justice to be confirmed must fall within a few points of this number in addition to being qualified or well-qualified in the legal world. Extremists of either side hurt the Court and tie up legislation with filibusters that wouldn't be necessary under this system.
Sounds good to me! Anyone agree?
Posted by DukeRevolution at September 21, 2005 10:20 AMDon't bother, we'll apply the KY ourselves.
Posted by Vinnie at September 21, 2005 10:28 AMRoberts just doesn't seem that bad to me, but time will tell. What if he had answered he would overturn Roe v. Wade if he had the chance? Is any nominee from Bush going to say that they will uphold it? Roberts might even come up with stronger legal ground for upholding it. Who knows. I do worry that he said that he, like all the justices on the court, believes a right to privacy is found in the constitution. That means he could overturn Roe even though there is a right to privacy. I like that he helped the gay rights group and that he said he supposed he wouldn't help someone he found morally repugnant (or something like that.) I liked that he said court stripping is a bad idea. So, I see some hope in him, compared to what I would expect from Bush. But, I think the Bush administration would pick someone far right, so unless Bush screwed up, we may be in for trouble.
Posted by CG at September 21, 2005 10:36 AMhas bush done anything right yet?..
Posted by dennis at September 21, 2005 10:41 AMNo, and that gives me hope, but I just have a hard time imagining him choosing someone more moderate when he was trying to get another Scalia or Thomas. I'd love it if he shot himself in the foot on this.
Posted by CG at September 21, 2005 10:46 AMI just have a hard time imagining him choosing someone more moderate when he was trying to get another Scalia or Thomas. I'd love it if he shot himself in the foot on this.
A couple of thoughts:
- I doubt that Bush actually "picked" Roberts, I'm sure he was told that he was picking Roberts.
- I doubt that Roberts is a moderate. These guys know what is at stake in this game. They have specific goals. Roberts is a hard line conservative who comes across as a nice guy. In contrast, with Scalia it's easy to tell what he's about because he's so nasty.
If there's any sort of sleath factor in choosing Roberts, my guess is that he's far more conservative than he's going to let on because he wants the job. Bush loves Scalia and Thomas but can you imagine the battle if one of them had been suggested?
Posted by ann at September 21, 2005 11:10 AMduke,
The Americans for Democratic Action (A.D.A.) rates liberalism on a scale of 0 to 100. The Americans for Constitutional Action (A.C.A.) does the same for conservatism. The bills they choose for scoring vary from year to year as different issues are voted upon and they do not always use the same bills for rating. Having said that, if a congressperson gets a perfect 100 from one they will be close to or at a zero rating from the other.
btw, I haven't made up my mind on Roberts yet. On one hand, we could too easily be looking at someone who appears even worse but, he is sort of like, to use an old southern experssion "a pig in a poke." Realistically, I can't see Roberts not being voted in at this point. I think the Dem. senators should vote their conscence on this one and get a pass either way, this doesn't look like a winnable battle and I still suspect future trickery from Bush on major issues like Social Security. That's where the real fight will likely be.
Posted by rlp at September 21, 2005 11:11 AMfuck roberts ..he's one vote..he replaces rehnquist so it's a wash..the big pick is the next one..the swing vote..
Posted by dennis at September 21, 2005 11:19 AMrlp, your "pig in a poke" phrased reminded me of something....you said you lived in Charlotte when Hugo went through....so did I...in the Elizabeth neighborhood. On another thread, when we were discussing Gen X vs. Baby Boomers, you said you and I were both probably Tweeners. Is it possible that we knew each other in a former life?
Posted by ann at September 21, 2005 11:31 AMroberts is as qualified to be Chief Justice as tenant and bremmer were for the Medal of Freedom. Regardless of ideology, the guy's only been a judge for 2 years.
Raenelle points out up thread that It's a matter of trusting bush. bush appointed brownie to head FEMA, and he's just appointed Gen. dick meyer's niece to head Customs and Immigration. Think bush learns from past mistakes?
As some other post said several days ago, roberts is a made guy in the bush family. This appointment is payback for help in getting bush selected in Florida in 2000
Posted by Jim Faith at September 21, 2005 11:43 AMdon't underestimate john roberts ..he's one smart son of a bitch..the senate questions rolled off him like water off a ducks ass..he's smooth..but he is still one vote..
Posted by dennis at September 21, 2005 11:56 AMann,
I used to hang out in the Elizabeth area! Do you remember the Casablanca restaurant? To my knowledge it was the only place in Charlotte during the late 80's where you could get a filafel sandwich. Sadly, the owner had health problems in the early 90's and had to close it down. I used to play frisbee football most weekends, weather permitting with friends in the rose garden area of Independence Park. All in all, that was a good time period for me dispite the hurricane and the Bush I presidency. Wow, what a small world this really is!
To whom it may concern,
Sorry to go off topic like that but I'm having non drug induced flashbacks just thinking about the rose garden...and those filafel sandwiches.
Posted by rlp at September 21, 2005 11:59 AMOh, yes, the Casablanca was next to the Double Door (one of my regular haunts in those days) and they did have awesome falafel. I also spent a lot of time at Ty's on 7th Street.
Is Independence Park the same as Freedom Park? I can't recall and I grew up in Charlotte!
As much as I don't really like Charlotte that much, I do recall those days fondly. LOL...I had these crazy friends who made these political signs (early days of the PC) to hang around town:
Dukakis/Bentson feel the excitement
Posted by ann at September 21, 2005 12:09 PMDuring the 2004 campaign I gave donation$ for the first time in my life - to Dennis Kucinich. After the debacle in Ohio, I wouldn't send him the grease off of my falafel. A few weeks ago I received a "personalized survey" from the DNC (under Deanie-weenie's letterhead). The first question asked me to rate issues it presented in order of import, 0-10. None of the issues mentioned were even near the top of my list of issues, so under "Other" I wrote in as my priority "corporate influence in government." The questions that followed were so mamby-pamby and lighter than a Hostess Twinky that I slashed the rest of the pages with my pen and wrote in the space left at the bottom soliciting contribution$ "you just don't get it!" I will never, ever give another red or blue cent to a democratic candidate. They. Just. Don't. Get. It. (:>
Posted by Donald Cormac at September 21, 2005 12:40 PMMy conspiracy theory oriented brain has been sending signals that the DC democrats were worried because Bush was sinking too far in the polls and they needed to stop his freefall before he sunk to low 30's. They raised the threat level to red and decided that the democrats must hand Bush a significant victory ASAP before the twin debacles of Iraq/Katrina permanently sunk his presidency. Thanks to their bold plan to vote for Roberts, not only can Chris Matthews host a week of shows lionizing Bush/Rove for being so clever & shrewd as to outflank the hapless democrats again, and this time, Bush didn't even need a costume! The Note will be able amp up its democrats are amoral, spineless , antiChrist losers snark. The WaPo/NYT can editorialize about how Bush found his footing and is back on his (popular)game. This time next year, the democrats can shake their heads and voice disappointment at Roberts just in time to make an impassive pitch for the hearts and minds of republican swing voters while telling the few remaining women democratic voters to shut up & get over it--they really don't need control over their bodies or their paychecks anyway--the women in Iraq can't vote at all and yet democracy is in full flower there.
Posted by Hoosiercat at September 21, 2005 12:49 PMmuckcat and jj, your both right, unfortunately!
muckdog, do think it will level off at 4% or will it go a much higher?
How about everyone unloading their DIEBOLD stock? Down 15.5%!! LOL
Posted by bushblowsturdblossom at September 21, 2005 02:03 PMDukakis/Bentson feel the excitement
Yes, I think that I remember those signs. Indepedence Park is the one near the community college and the football stadium-the old Memorial Stadium, not the newer,v larger one that the Panthers play in. It's a long park that streches down 7th street for a couple of blocks, kind of like a mini-greenway. Freedom Park is further to the east and is sort of the "central park" for Charlotte, and has the duck pond, the band shell and where the weekend "hippies' used to play their bongos and congas .
I miss people like that, when I left Charlotte I too was happy to have it in the rear view mirror. Now I find that ironic because I've been living in the hinterlands of South Carolina too long for my liking. If I knew of a career opportunity in Charlotte, or Raliegh-Durham, today it wouldn't take much to move me. Out here those mid sized southern cities look like glowing beacons of civilization!
Posted by rlp at September 21, 2005 03:31 PMI remember Independence Park now - the Shakespeare company used to perform there. I lived on 5th St. - just around the corner. Freedom Park was the one we always went to when I was a kid.
I miss the laid back folks I knew in Charlotte, too. Like you, I couldn't wait to get away. I do love Chicago, except maybe the six months of winter. But there just aren't people like the ones I knew in Charlotte.
I get to SC almost every summer to go to Litchfield with my extended family. I've entertained the notion of moving to Charleston because there's a software company I could easily get a job with. I'm just not ready for the small town southern life yet. Maybe in a few years.
Posted by ann at September 21, 2005 05:00 PMann,
One weekend I read the cornerstone plaques in Indpendence Park and I noticed a pattern, the westernmost part of the park which is nearest the football field was dedicated in the early 1920's and the last, easternmost segment was dedicated in 1929. My guess is that the plan was to create a greenway streaching eastward as the city grew but the depression dried up the money to expand the park further. After WWII when prosperity returned and Charlotte entered the semi-boom postwar period, the land value probabally became too high to continue the project. Still, the sections that they were able to build are nice, I'm glad that we both got to enjoy them.
Litchfield, that's in Georgetown County, on the coast if I remember right. Charleston might be O.K., I've visited it several times but have never lived there. The SC coast tends to be a little less redneckish than further inland. My current hometown has an international flavor-we have a Mexican restaurant that actully serves Tecate beer!
If you wish you could let me know the next time you're headed towards Litchfield, I could give you an e-mail address then and maybe we could do something fun. By all means invite any friends to come along, the more the merrier. : )
Posted by rlp at September 21, 2005 06:26 PMLitchfield Beach, yes. It's in the Myrtle Beach area. A nice, quiet beach, just sand and sun - it's not gated but they've kept development down over the years so it isn't trashy like Myrtle.
Send me your email address, mine is above, and maybe next summer we can talk politics in person.
Posted by ann at September 21, 2005 07:24 PMoops: amcg826@sbcglobal.net
Posted by ann at September 21, 2005 07:24 PMWith that much at stake, Judge Roberts needed to show us where his heart is.
Instead he recited case law and said little about what he really thought. He needed to engage the Senate Judiciary Committee and the American people in a genuine conversation. He failed that test. And, while I recognize that other members of the Senate will legitimately make a different choice, I will vote "NO" on the Roberts nomination. John Kerry
Too bad other Democrats don't have the same kind of integrity as Kerry.
Posted by Judith at September 21, 2005 08:02 PM